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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:29 PM   #1
Timzer
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The overly devoted Apple customer is hurting Apple...

I've said this many times, and now it seems to be showing. The Apple customer who believes Apple can do no wrong. That 3.5 inches is the perfect screen size, that LTE is not needed yet, that NFC is still not needed, that bigger screens are ridiculous, that quad core CPUs are overkill, that 2GB or RAM is overkill, that iOS is amazing even though it's still not much different than in 2007, etc... will be the very customers that bring Apple down. DEMANDING loyal customers are what feed innovation in a market and in a company. Now the competition is coming out in full force and have clearly shot past the iPhone in terms of hardware. Lets forget the OS for now. Hardware sells. Especially when that hardware clearly shows better on the sales floor. Believe what you like, but one thing is for certain, the market waits for no one. I truly believe you will see Apple coming out with a screen size well above 4 inches sooner than later. Samsung and Google seem to be on the fast road to world domination.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:36 PM   #2
onthecouchagain
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I've been saying this for ages on this board. Ages.

Intellectual honesty goes a long way. Those types of fans think they're helping but don't realize they're actually doing disservice to apple. But it's not just them either. Apple themselves need to adopt a more humbling philosophy. I think we've seen some humility in Cook be it his apology letter letter for maps or his quiet admission that iOS is in need of new direction by firing forestall.

Fans - real fans - should be the first to speak honestly about shortcomings.

I'm glad some people on this board, even in the iphone forums, are starting to.

Last edited by onthecouchagain; Jan 13, 2013 at 11:42 PM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:42 PM   #3
ybz90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzer View Post
I've said this many times, and now it seems to be showing. The Apple customer who believes Apple can do no wrong. That 3.5 inches is the perfect screen size, that LTE is not needed yet, that NFC is still not needed, that bigger screens are ridiculous, that quad core CPUs are overkill, that 2GB or RAM is overkill, that iOS is amazing even though it's still not much different than in 2007, etc... will be the very customers that bring Apple down. DEMANDING loyal customers are what feed innovation in a market and in a company. Now the competition is coming out in full force and have clearly shot past the iPhone in terms of hardware. Lets forget the OS for now. Hardware sells. Especially when that hardware clearly shows better on the sales floor. Believe what you like, but one thing is for certain, the market waits for no one. I truly believe you will see Apple coming out with a screen size well above 4 inches sooner than later. Samsung and Google seem to be on the fast road to world domination.
I believe the idea of Apple fanboyism is vastly overblown. The ones who tend to be "Apple cult" types are actually more likely to be technically literate. The vast majority of Apple's customers by no insignificant margin are the general population who do not really understand the minute technical differences between products and lines, drawn instead to the design aesthetic and ease of use of Apple products.

Hence, I don't really think the idea that Apple's rabid fan-customers will lead Apple to an age of complacent mediocrity is true. Perhaps Apple is already down that path, but their complacency is due to their success with the general market, not from devoted fans, who are realistically a very small percentage of their actual revenue stream.

----------

Also, many conclusions can be drawn from the WSJ article, whether it is weaker demand or simply transitioning to new products, either by diversification of the line, or prepping for the next iPhone. The problem with the 5 wasn't its design or its features; it was a failure on the part of Tim Cook to manage the supply line, despite his reputation as a great logistician. Initial demand for the 5 outpaced supply, but by the time enough devices (due to the precision build) and screens were available, demand had petered off. Since the life cycle of smartphones is so short, you kind of have to deliver right away or customers will look away to the next model. By the time Apple had enough 5s to sell, many customers had already bought other phones since we're now 1/3 the way through its life as a flagship. Of course, it doesn't help at iOS as getting ugly and stale as hell.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:44 PM   #4
onthecouchagain
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Apple fans should truly be embarrassed anytime the phrase "it just works" is uttered.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 11:58 PM   #5
Zaft
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Another apple is doomed thread awesome
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:01 AM   #6
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If anything, I think it's actually the significant group of non-devoted Apple loyalists who are "bringing Apple down." These are people who are not techies/gearheads and don't care about having the most cutting-edge device. They just want something that will allow them to do simple tasks easily. For this crowd, the stale, limited and innovation-less iOS is actually a selling point as it makes the phone easier to use. The less features a phone has, the easier it will be to engage. This is why I think iphones are the best smartphones for old people/senior citizens/corporate personnel.

The problem is that this segment of iOS users account for a huge chunk of Apple's bottom line and I don't see Apple doing anything drastic with the software for fear of alienating such a strong source of revenue.

For myself, I had to switch to an iphone 5 because my work doesn't support Android devices. I had just upgraded to a Note 2 in November. Having spent two months with a top-end Android device, I find the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 insulting.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:05 AM   #7
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Thumbs down

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnr319 View Post
If anything, I think it's actually the significant group of non-devoted Apple loyalists who are "bringing Apple down." These are people who are not techies/gearheads and don't care about having the most cutting-edge device. They just want something that will allow them to do simple tasks easily. For this crowd, the stale, limited and innovation-less iOS is actually a selling point as it makes the phone easier to use. The less features a phone has, the easier it will be to engage. This is why I think iphones are the best smartphones for old people/senior citizens/corporate personnel.

The problem is that this segment of iOS users account for a huge chunk of Apple's bottom line and I don't see Apple doing anything drastic with the software for fear of alienating such a strong source of revenue.

For myself, I had to switch to an iphone 5 because my work doesn't support Android devices. I had just upgraded to a Note 2 in November. Having spent two months with a top-end Android device, I find the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 insulting.
You found a phone insulting ? Talk about priorities in life
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnr319 View Post
If anything, I think it's actually the significant group of non-devoted Apple loyalists who are "bringing Apple down." These are people who are not techies/gearheads and don't care about having the most cutting-edge device. They just want something that will allow them to do simple tasks easily. For this crowd, the stale, limited and innovation-less iOS is actually a selling point as it makes the phone easier to use. The less features a phone has, the easier it will be to engage. This is why I think iphones are the best smartphones for old people/senior citizens/corporate personnel.

The problem is that this segment of iOS users account for a huge chunk of Apple's bottom line and I don't see Apple doing anything drastic with the software for fear of alienating such a strong source of revenue.

For myself, I had to switch to an iphone 5 because my work doesn't support Android devices. I had just upgraded to a Note 2 in November. Having spent two months with a top-end Android device, I find the iPhone 5 and iOS 6 insulting.
Apple is playing it safe. If it ain't broke, don't' fix it type of mentality. I feel they are afraid to try new things to bring into the market for fear of failure or something. But people might eventually see that iOS/iPhone is getting boring and will look else where.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaft View Post
You found a phone insulting ? Talk about priorities in life
If we're going to talk about priorities in life, then why do you care what they think?

Talk about priorities.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:10 AM   #9
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I think what Apple needs is constructive criticism, not praises, for it's products. Their mantra has led them to believe that they can do no wrong, that their products are sort of "perfect" in their eyes. They fail to see that other competitors are rolling out better smartphones right under their noses.

Wake up, man.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:10 AM   #10
ybz90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
Apple is playing it safe. If it ain't broke, don't' fix it type of mentality. I feel they are afraid to try new things to bring into the market for fear of failure or something. But people might eventually see that iOS/iPhone is getting boring and will look else where.
As I and another poster mentioned, the reason for this complacency isn't the overly devoted Mac fanatic, but rather the swaths of general computing customers who buy Apple products for simplicity. I hope Apple finds themselves soon -- they have a history of being innovative.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:18 AM   #11
gnr319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaft View Post
You found a phone insulting ? Talk about priorities in life
Personally, I do feel insulted. I paid 300 for a phone that is a faster version of my iPhone 4. The tall screen is a farce adding nothing to the usability of the device and the build quality feels cheaper than the iPhone 4. The OS experience is the same with no improvement to the notifications system. These are just a few of my own misgivings.

Overall I just feel the iPhone is the new dumb phone. It makes great calls but do anything else on it and you'll be crippled by the small screen or some software limitation apple has programmed.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:30 AM   #12
SomeDudeAsking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzer View Post
I've said this many times, and now it seems to be showing. The Apple customer who believes Apple can do no wrong. That 3.5 inches is the perfect screen size, that LTE is not needed yet, that NFC is still not needed, that bigger screens are ridiculous, that quad core CPUs are overkill, that 2GB or RAM is overkill, that iOS is amazing even though it's still not much different than in 2007, etc... will be the very customers that bring Apple down. DEMANDING loyal customers are what feed innovation in a market and in a company. Now the competition is coming out in full force and have clearly shot past the iPhone in terms of hardware. Lets forget the OS for now. Hardware sells. Especially when that hardware clearly shows better on the sales floor. Believe what you like, but one thing is for certain, the market waits for no one. I truly believe you will see Apple coming out with a screen size well above 4 inches sooner than later. Samsung and Google seem to be on the fast road to world domination.
That link is confirmation of what the stock market has known since the iPhone 5 was released. Apple stock has been sinking like a rock ever since the iPhone went on sale and now we know it isn't selling any where near as well as the Apple propagandists would have you believe. With that Wall Street Journal report, there is a good chance we will see a major sell off of Apple stock tomorrow.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaft View Post
You found a phone insulting ? Talk about priorities in life
If we went back in time to the 90s and told people then that in 15 yrs time what people would be saying about phones, they'd be saying "Haha, what a bunch of losers!"

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnr319 View Post
Personally, I do feel insulted. I paid 300 for a phone that is a faster version of my iPhone 4.
Why'd you do that, then? Why didn't you wait for the next gen iPhone, sticking with the same one for another year (*gasp*) and save $300?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 12:56 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
Apple is playing it safe. If it ain't broke, don't' fix it type of mentality.
Yup, safe like a Blackberry.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:06 AM   #15
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Hardware specs do sell to an extent, but you need to realise that iOS doesn't need the same resources as Android.

The iPhone 5 has a dual core 1GHz processor with 1GB of ram and a battery half the size of the latest Android phones, yet it's still just as fast, can run the latest games and has better battery life than most other phones.

I say what's the point in putting excessively overpowered hardware when it doesn't currently need it? The iPhone 5 is unlikely to be pushed by software for a couple of years at least.

And NFC is definitely not needed. Had it, used it on Android in conjunction with NFC tags but don't need to toggle settings to save battery in iOS. And it's not supported for payments here yet, so there's really no use for it.

Nothing wrong with being a realist
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:19 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Hardware specs do sell to an extent, but you need to realise that iOS doesn't need the same resources as Android.

The iPhone 5 has a dual core 1GHz processor with 1GB of ram and a battery half the size of the latest Android phones, yet it's still just as fast, can run the latest games and has better battery life than most other phones.

I say what's the point in putting excessively overpowered hardware when it doesn't currently need it? The iPhone 5 is unlikely to be pushed by software for a couple of years at least.

And NFC is definitely not needed. Had it, used it on Android in conjunction with NFC tags but don't need to toggle settings to save battery in iOS. And it's not supported for payments here yet, so there's really no use for it.

Nothing wrong with being a realist
The iPhone 5 also has half the screen area of the latest Android phones and it can't do common things any where near as well (or at all) as in Android.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:37 AM   #17
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I believe the idea of Apple fanboyism is vastly overblown. The ones who tend to be "Apple cult" types are actually more likely to be technically literate.
Really? I'm of the opinion that the kool aid drinkers are completely devoid of any technical knowledge. The general advice from these people is to buy a new system if it's more than 2 or 3 years old, they needlessly run permission repairs/onyx like they are brushing there teeth when neither would help them with whatever problem they're having with their system (PEBKAC generally), and avoid anything to do with the terminal when that is the solution to a problem.

Is that bad for Apple? Of course not, but the cultists are definitely not technically literate save a small percentage of users.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:07 AM   #18
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Really? I'm of the opinion that the kool aid drinkers are completely devoid of any technical knowledge. The general advice from these people is to buy a new system if it's more than 2 or 3 years old, they needlessly run permission repairs/onyx like they are brushing there teeth when neither would help them with whatever problem they're having with their system (PEBKAC generally), and avoid anything to do with the terminal when that is the solution to a problem.

Is that bad for Apple? Of course not, but the cultists are definitely not technically literate save a small percentage of users.
My point is these are 0.0001% of the actual Apple users. The majority that self-identify as Mac fans (perhaps cult was the wrong choice of words) take the time to verse themselves with Apple's hardware and are generally technically proficient. I guess I'm differentiating the hardcore Mac fans into the idiots and the pros, and I believe the pros far outweigh the handful of vocal idiots, and either way, hardcore fans are themselves a tiny sliver of Apple's customers.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:25 AM   #19
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I guess I'm differentiating the hardcore Mac fans into the idiots and the pros, and I believe the pros far outweigh the handful of vocal idiots, and either way, hardcore fans are themselves a tiny sliver of Apple's customers.
I agree with that; unfortunately the idiots outweigh the pros exponentially in numbers as opposed to knowledge, insight, and buying power.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:43 AM   #20
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You found a phone insulting ? Talk about priorities in life
True but then 99% of the posts on this forum can be grouped under the category "First world problems". None of this matters really does it?
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 03:57 AM   #21
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The iPhone 5 also has half the screen area of the latest Android phones and it can't do common things any where near as well (or at all) as in Android.
Such as?

Sweeping statements like that just make you look like a blind hater. Give me some specifics.

I've owned a HTC Desire, Galaxy S2 and Galaxy S3 and used every version of Android from Eclair to Jelly Bean (except Honeycomb). There's also a Nexus 7 at home that I can use any time, although it's not mine.

I also have an iPhone 5 and an iPad 2.

I can't really say that either OS is vastly easier to use than the other. What I can say is that less can go wrong on iOS. You don't need to worry about wakelocks like you do on Android. You don't need to worry about malware like you do on Android. I never had malware and didn't really worry about it as such, but the fact is that you have to be careful about what to install on Android, whereas on iOS you can install anything you like and it's a lot more unlikely to have malware.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:03 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Fans - real fans - should be the first to speak honestly about shortcomings.

I'm glad some people on this board, even in the iphone forums, are starting to.
Just performed page Search - Command/F - not one word of BlueTooth came up.
After 3 years with Apples mobile devices - I still don't understand the denial.
There were 7 years prior of other services before I went Apple mobile.
With the live tour of the SIII last night at Verizon - there's no way I'll ever upgrade beyond this 3Gs.

That alone could / will kill the New World Order.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:18 AM   #23
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I've been saying this for ages on this board. Ages.

Intellectual honesty goes a long way. Those types of fans think they're helping but don't realize they're actually doing disservice to apple. But it's not just them either. Apple themselves need to adopt a more humbling philosophy. I think we've seen some humility in Cook be it his apology letter letter for maps or his quiet admission that iOS is in need of new direction by firing forestall.

Fans - real fans - should be the first to speak honestly about shortcomings.

I'm glad some people on this board, even in the iphone forums, are starting to.
Its sad really, there are people on here like me that LOVE Apple products, i own the new iMac, a 2011 MBA, an iPad 2 and a iPod video. I even lined up for hours and got the iPhone 4 for on launch night. The thing is it seems like anyone that thinks the iPhone has fallen behind the competition is seen as a troll ect. I want the iPhone to get better, i don't want the same old interface, it needs to evolve and Apple need to realize there is a large market for people that want more customization and larger screens.. Ive moved to android for my phone needs for now but i do hope Apple can blow me away in the future with a truly revolutionary iPhone.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:28 AM   #24
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Apple needs to come down to earth.

They haven't produced anything great since Leopard.

And that's where they started slacking. When "Snow Leopard" hit successfully, they gave up on releasing "new" operating systems.

Not to say Snow Leopard is bad, in fact it was great.

But notice the intro video stayed the same. The interface didn't change much at all, and no new earth-shattering features came of it, like Time Machine in Leopard.

Then Lion came, this time there was no intro video at all. Granted we got some enhancements to the UI, but everything else was recycled iOS. Which was stale in iOS, and now stale in OS X. It also dropped Mac from its branding...

Need I continue? Mountain Lion is nothing new at all. What did this release even give us? Messages, Reminders, and Notes? Didn't we already have stickies.app? Ohh and a new dock.


Ubuntu is becoming more innovative. I also like the interface in its own way. Have you guys seen the new Ubuntu Phone? I hope that thing steals from Android.

Sorry to steal the topic away from the iPhone..
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:41 AM   #25
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Very interesting and balanced thread. I love apple products and would want them to continue to prosper but the competition is surely fighting hard.

Imagine if the much rumored samsung galaxy s4 is to be a "groundbreaking" launch where will that leave our beloved iPhone 5? Will customers wait until September 2013? For a similar build iPhone?

Precarious situation I think.....
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