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Old Jan 14, 2013, 01:12 PM   #51
ugahairydawgs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timzer View Post
I've said this many times, and now it seems to be showing. The Apple customer who believes Apple can do no wrong. That 3.5 inches is the perfect screen size, that LTE is not needed yet, that NFC is still not needed, that bigger screens are ridiculous, that quad core CPUs are overkill, that 2GB or RAM is overkill, that iOS is amazing even though it's still not much different than in 2007, etc... will be the very customers that bring Apple down. DEMANDING loyal customers are what feed innovation in a market and in a company. Now the competition is coming out in full force and have clearly shot past the iPhone in terms of hardware. Lets forget the OS for now. Hardware sells. Especially when that hardware clearly shows better on the sales floor. Believe what you like, but one thing is for certain, the market waits for no one. I truly believe you will see Apple coming out with a screen size well above 4 inches sooner than later. Samsung and Google seem to be on the fast road to world domination.
Blindly devoted fans of any platform are no good. Apple has them, Google has them, Microsoft has them. Hell....even RIM has them. Folks should use whatever works best for them.....and that's going to be different from person to person. Take your points for example.

1. 3.5" screens are perfect for some people. Just because one person thinks that their Galaxy Note's 5.5" screen is the sweet spot is irrelevant. Same goes for the person that prefers the 4.8" screen. Personally I think the 4.3" area is just about perfect. It's going to be different depending on who you ask.

2. I don't know anyone that said LTE was not needed, only that people didn't want to add it if the chips that were widely available killed your battery off too quick.

3. Outside of mobile payments, which have an almost non-existent adoption rate at this point, I've yet to hear a compelling reason as to why NFC is needed at this point.

4. Bigger screens....see point one. I think we'll eventually see Apple go there, but it may take them a generation or two more to get there. This tends to be just the way they operate. They hardly ever rush out new tech just to beat others to the market.

5. On quad core processors and extra system RAM.....that may be important for some, but I don't really get why so many get hung up on it. I want whatever makes my phone work at a good snappiness to good battery ratio. I have an iPhone 5 at the moment and I have yet to come across an Android device that runs better than it does. The GN2 is about on par and I would assume the Nexus 4 is in the ball park too (haven't had one in my hands yet, so that's just speculation), but everything else has always been a step behind...whether it's screen response or just general lag. If the phones running Android need that extra juice....then by all means. But I don't think a phone with a little bit better optimized OS should be necessarily docked a point for not having the same specs as high end Android devices.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:49 PM   #52
jrswizzle
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Originally Posted by gnr319 View Post
Personally, I do feel insulted. I paid 300 for a phone that is a faster version of my iPhone 4. The tall screen is a farce adding nothing to the usability of the device and the build quality feels cheaper than the iPhone 4. The OS experience is the same with no improvement to the notifications system. These are just a few of my own misgivings.

Overall I just feel the iPhone is the new dumb phone. It makes great calls but do anything else on it and you'll be crippled by the small screen or some software limitation apple has programmed.
While I agree we don't want to let Apple get away with murder, I think posts like this go a little far in criticizing what is a top notch smartphone - even if not what we'd expect to be an industry leader from Apple.

To say you can't do anything on an iPhone but make calls without being "crippled by the small screen or some software limitation" is just plain laughable.

Screen size is subjective folks. When will you realize this? Some of us don't want/don't care about 5" screens. I thought 3.5" was great, I think 4" is fine. If Apple did a 4.5" I'd be cool with that as well - 5" is too much FOR ME.

As for other hardware "shortcomings" like the late adoption of LTE or NFC, lack of quad core processors, RAM etc....I honestly and truly think its all a bunch of garbage. Sure I wanted LTE when I got the 4S (living in a Dallas suburb, we had LTE relatively early) but I wasn't about to give up everything else I liked about the 4S for it (especially when I saw what it did to my buddies' batteries). NFC is on the verge, but I'm still not sure where I'd use it personally - maybe for transferring files with friends and family in the room with me - though I have plenty of options for doing that now.

Quad core processors and RAM are fancy and shiny - but ultimately, the iPhone 5 keeps up with (and in some places passes) the other top phones on the market with a measly dual core processor and 1 GB RAM. That tells me optimization and usefulness aren't there with quad core processors yet. And I don't need specs for the sake of specs.

Where Apple is falling short is the software side - and I'm hopeful (and somewhat confident) there will be a new era ushered in with the exit of Forstall and the combined rule of Ive, Cue and Federighi.

Give me some new innovation on the software side and keep giving me finely tuned hardware (both design wise and internally) and I'll continue to support Apple happily as I do now.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
Blindly devoted fans of any platform are no good. Apple has them, Google has them, Microsoft has them. Hell....even RIM has them. Folks should use whatever works best for them.....and that's going to be different from person to person. Take your points for example.

1. 3.5" screens are perfect for some people. Just because one person thinks that their Galaxy Note's 5.5" screen is the sweet spot is irrelevant. Same goes for the person that prefers the 4.8" screen. Personally I think the 4.3" area is just about perfect. It's going to be different depending on who you ask.

2. I don't know anyone that said LTE was not needed, only that people didn't want to add it if the chips that were widely available killed your battery off too quick.

3. Outside of mobile payments, which have an almost non-existent adoption rate at this point, I've yet to hear a compelling reason as to why NFC is needed at this point.

4. Bigger screens....see point one. I think we'll eventually see Apple go there, but it may take them a generation or two more to get there. This tends to be just the way they operate. They hardly ever rush out new tech just to beat others to the market.

5. On quad core processors and extra system RAM.....that may be important for some, but I don't really get why so many get hung up on it. I want whatever makes my phone work at a good snappiness to good battery ratio. I have an iPhone 5 at the moment and I have yet to come across an Android device that runs better than it does. The GN2 is about on par and I would assume the Nexus 4 is in the ball park too (haven't had one in my hands yet, so that's just speculation), but everything else has always been a step behind...whether it's screen response or just general lag. If the phones running Android need that extra juice....then by all means. But I don't think a phone with a little bit better optimized OS should be necessarily docked a point for not having the same specs as high end Android devices.
Here here. Excellent points.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 02:58 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Timzer View Post
I've said this many times, and now it seems to be showing. The Apple customer who believes Apple can do no wrong. That 3.5 inches is the perfect screen size, that LTE is not needed yet, that NFC is still not needed, that bigger screens are ridiculous, that quad core CPUs are overkill, that 2GB or RAM is overkill, that iOS is amazing even though it's still not much different than in 2007, etc... will be the very customers that bring Apple down. DEMANDING loyal customers are what feed innovation in a market and in a company. Now the competition is coming out in full force and have clearly shot past the iPhone in terms of hardware. Lets forget the OS for now. Hardware sells. Especially when that hardware clearly shows better on the sales floor. Believe what you like, but one thing is for certain, the market waits for no one. I truly believe you will see Apple coming out with a screen size well above 4 inches sooner than later. Samsung and Google seem to be on the fast road to world domination.
I just find it funny about all the complaints about iPhone 5 from people that have owned the 4 AND the 4s....

where were the big complaints from lack of upgrades from 4 to 4s? All the sudden apple comes out with a bigger screen and LTE and now everyone is pissed there weren't more upgrades? No one complained about lack of upgrade from the 4 to 4s but now everyone is outraged about the iPhone 5?

Yes, hardware sells....but that's not the entire purpose. Samsung etc are all about the specs and hardware not the overall experience. 6 months after you buy your shiny new samsung another one is on the market. To me that is more about greed than what everyone says about Apple.

Apple is where they are today bc of loyal buyers and the overall experience. Oops I cracked my screen I'll run up to the apple store and snag another for half the cost. Good luck with customer service with any android.

Apple has it nailed down...and that's why a lot of people are so loyal to the company bc they get treated well. Not everything is just about the latest hardware. To me it's about the overall experience.

You talk about competition leading to world domination.....
it's interesting how Apple, a company that has 1 current phone model is able to be where they are today from having 2 old model phones and JUST 1 current phone. Compare that to tons of companies and hundred's of phones that run android. Imagine if Apple sold cheap $50 prepaid phones that ran on net10. Android would be gone. Domination? I think it's actually quite sad that a company with only 3 model phones on the market has the market share they have.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 04:30 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
3. Outside of mobile payments, which have an almost non-existent adoption rate at this point, I've yet to hear a compelling reason as to why NFC is needed at this point.

5. On quad core processors and extra system RAM.....that may be important for some, but I don't really get why so many get hung up on it. I want whatever makes my phone work at a good snappiness to good battery ratio. I have an iPhone 5 at the moment and I have yet to come across an Android device that runs better than it does. The GN2 is about on par and I would assume the Nexus 4 is in the ball park too (haven't had one in my hands yet, so that's just speculation), but everything else has always been a step behind...whether it's screen response or just general lag. If the phones running Android need that extra juice....then by all means. But I don't think a phone with a little bit better optimized OS should be necessarily docked a point for not having the same specs as high end Android devices.
I agree with most of your points, however I have a response to two.

3. NFC Tap readers are everywhere in the Houston area. All sorts of chains use them. Hell my Hospital has them on their vending machines built into the credit card readers. I even live in the sticks and I have them at my gas stations and fast food chains. Granted this is anecdotal but they proliferate more areas in the states than people make it seem. Even a certain poser here who lives in Japan you cannot avoid bumping into a machine or store using them. Any new high end POS Card reader built after 2011 has support for the three big credit card NFC protocols. All it takes is one for Google Wallet to work. Also NFC Smart Tags are pretty nice. I have a couple spread throughout my living area, one in my car and one at my work. My Phone does stuff or goes into modes when I put it on my desk.

5. Stuffing more cores or higher clock speeds and advertising it is fairly silly especially when your UI Code is lacking. Like you stated and as evidenced by User Input priority with iOS which freezes everything when the user touches the screen. OS Optimization trumps it. However system memory brings much more tangible benefits that shouldn't be disregarded so easily. With the way Android and iOS handle background processes. The more memory you have the more stuff you can have frozen in the background which means less of a chance you will have to spend time reloading an app. On your everyday simple app this is not as much of a problem but on ones with large libraries of resources such as games or productivity apps, this is far more noticeable. Also things like Chrome can benefit from having more tabs... granted you wont be using all the tabs at once but I usually run anywhere from 12-25 open just because I can and when I am surfing I like to go back and read new comments from time to time on different articles. While the latter is down to user preference the former is something everyone can enjoy. Lastly on Android responsiveness, have you tried the S3 or the Note 2? They are honestly nearly on par with iOS in terms of UX. Zero lag or stutter, I never notice a difference if I happen to be using my iPad 3 and pick up my phone.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 07:38 PM   #55
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I agree!!

Many of us like iOS, but we clearly see its falling behind the competition.

If they like to pay premium price for outdated software then so be it.

Right now android is like 2 years ahead of iOS.

And let me tell you something.......... I just don't see how Apple can innovate more with such a close OS. They can't add widgets in such a small and narrow screen, they can't allow extra keyboards, they can't allow software buttons, the won't add a capacitive button instead of the hardware one...

And they can't add true multitasking, widgets and such because the iPhone's battery is 1.400 or so, so iPhone 4S and 5 owners will never see this feature because their battery life would end faster.

You are trapped with old software...

Even the way to add files to the iPhone or iPad is cumbersome.

Do yourself a favour and leave iOS...
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:11 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post

Screen size is subjective folks. When will you realize this? Some of us don't want/don't care about 5" screens. I thought 3.5" was great, I think 4" is fine. If Apple did a 4.5" I'd be cool with that as well - 5" is too much FOR ME.
That is the EXACT reason Apple need to offer more then one screen size!!!!
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:16 PM   #57
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That is the EXACT reason Apple need to offer more then one screen size!!!!
Right - wait till some are 50 something - then they'll get it.
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:22 PM   #58
Sensamic
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Android keyboard is better because you can customise the user dictionary and only have to tell it once that you don't want something to be corrected. iOS keyboard is still perfectly capable to type on. It's taken me about 15 seconds to type this post so far on my iPhone.

Attachments could be better but you can at least use the individual apps to email attachments. Can add multiple pics/videos from the email itself.

Never have eight tabs open but I can see why it would be annoying for the people that do. I would however question why you'd ever need more than eight tabs open, you can't be actively using all eight tabs at the same time, so just add websites you visit regularly to your bookmarks and browse to them that way whenever you want to.

Some valid points but that last one is a bit silly.
How can you send a picture, PDF, .docx, mp3, video or zip from one iOS device (like an iPhone) to another (like an iPad)? And email doesn't count because I don't give away my private email to everyone.

You cannot even send files between iOS devices!! How disturbing is that?

Anyone remember when Nokia was the top player in the market? I do. I bought several devices from them.

Where are they now?? At the bottom. Why?? Because an outdated mobile OS called Symbian, which was destroyed when iOS first came out.

Now its happening similarly: iOS was at the top but android came along.

IOS is the new Symbian.


And NFC is needed for sending files between devices... something called android beam... who cares about paying with NFC...
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Old Jan 14, 2013, 08:37 PM   #59
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Apple is DOOM.

The iPhone is the number #1 selling phone and increase marketshare from 2011.

No one wants a 3.5" to 4" screen, but more people seem to be buying it in 2012 than 2011.

Yet, Apple is DOOM.

----------

How come no one is creating a Android is DOOM thread?

Android marketshare declined in Q3 2012, while only iOS gained marketshare.

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Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:15 PM   #60
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And NFC is needed for sending files between devices... something called android beam... who cares about paying with NFC...
I'll take it a little bit further...At work we use NFC all the time to give each other youtube videos, apps, etc. I've also used NFC to give someone my contact information. Instead of them having to create a contact, getting the spelling of my name correct, and then jot down the information...I simply tapped my phone, and they had all my contact info.

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Attachments could be better but you can at least use the individual apps to email attachments. Can add multiple pics/videos from the email itself.
That is horribly inefficient, and unprofessional (if used for business). I receive a lot of emails on a daily basis, and if people who were sending me multiple attachments had to it in separate emails, I'd have at least twice as many emails to sift through. That is an unacceptable limitation, ESPECIALLY for a device that's supposed to also be an enterprise device.

Quote:
Never have eight tabs open but I can see why it would be annoying for the people that do. I would however question why you'd ever need more than eight tabs open, you can't be actively using all eight tabs at the same time, so just add websites you visit regularly to your bookmarks and browse to them that way whenever you want to.

Some valid points but that last one is a bit silly.
You may not use many tabs, but there are many of us that do. Your solution of bookmarking is something you've been conditioned to do, due to being accustomed to limitations. I on the other hand, will simply leave a tab open of a page I want to go back to later. Throughout the day I receive many links that I do necessarily want to tend to immediately. Instead I leave the tab open and come back to it when it's convenient. It would be much more inconvenient to have to go to the page, create a bookmark, and then later remove said bookmark. If I have 10 pages I plan to revisit later, that would be 10 bookmarks just for that one day. By leaving the tabs open, once I'm done with them all, I can simply tap clear all tabs, and I'm done.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:13 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by Sensamic View Post
How can you send a picture, PDF, .docx, mp3, video or zip from one iOS device (like an iPhone) to another (like an iPad)? And email doesn't count because I don't give away my private email to everyone.

You cannot even send files between iOS devices!! How disturbing is that?

Anyone remember when Nokia was the top player in the market? I do. I bought several devices from them.

Where are they now?? At the bottom. Why?? Because an outdated mobile OS called Symbian, which was destroyed when iOS first came out.

Now its happening similarly: iOS was at the top but android came along.

IOS is the new Symbian.


And NFC is needed for sending files between devices... something called android beam... who cares about paying with NFC...
You don't need NFC for that.

Wifi (like wifi direct on Android) or Bluetooth would be better options for sending files, because they have faster transfer rates.

You can't say email doesn't count either; it's a valid method.

If you have access to a computer you can use Bump to send documents/received files, but you need to do something with iTunes to get it to work..not ideal.

Bump can be used to send photos, videos, contacts between devices so long as you have an Internet connection simply by bumping them into each other. It's again likely to be faster than NFC, especially if connected to wifi.

Still don't see the need for NFC.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by The iGentleman View Post
That is horribly inefficient, and unprofessional (if used for business). I receive a lot of emails on a daily basis, and if people who were sending me multiple attachments had to it in separate emails, I'd have at least twice as many emails to sift through. That is an unacceptable limitation, ESPECIALLY for a device that's supposed to also be an enterprise device.


You may not use many tabs, but there are many of us that do. Your solution of bookmarking is something you've been conditioned to do, due to being accustomed to limitations. I on the other hand, will simply leave a tab open of a page I want to go back to later. Throughout the day I receive many links that I do necessarily want to tend to immediately. Instead I leave the tab open and come back to it when it's convenient. It would be much more inconvenient to have to go to the page, create a bookmark, and then later remove said bookmark. If I have 10 pages I plan to revisit later, that would be 10 bookmarks just for that one day. By leaving the tabs open, once I'm done with them all, I can simply tap clear all tabs, and I'm done.
Yep I agree something needs to be done about the emails..not that I really use it much these days on my personal device. Anybody using an iPhone for work would struggle to use it I think. I would at least!

There are plenty of other things you could do with regards to your tab problem. One is save the message/email/whatever and only go back to it when you have time to deal with it. Another is to create a note with all of the links in.

Apple puts a limitation on the number of tabs you can open because, news flash, browser tabs use up memory. I guess you'd rather it let you open up 50 pages and then complain about out of memory alerts or it not letting you do anything?

You have to remember that Apple caters for the average user who has little to no technical know-how. They want the UI to remain smooth, which they accomplish by limiting how many tabs you can open.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:03 AM   #62
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I'll take it a little bit further...At work we use NFC all the time to give each other youtube videos, apps, etc. I've also used NFC to give someone my contact information. ....
I am not sure what the advantage of this is - certainly bluetooth or WiFi would be better (or is the NFC used to set up a connection in bluetooth or WiFi?). Also, this sounds like an excellent way to transmit malware, and I'd be willing to bet that somebody somewhere will begin to exploit NFC in this regard (and since many credit cards have NFC perhaps that makes them vulnerable when they are near your phone?).

Anyways, I wonder if somebody could explain to me why NFC is not redundant with bluetooth? Why haven't pay systems been based on bluetooth? Is it thought NFC's smaller range adds security? Not trolling - genuinely interested.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:27 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Sensamic View Post
I agree!!

Many of us like iOS, but we clearly see its falling behind the competition.

If they like to pay premium price for outdated software then so be it.

Right now android is like 2 years ahead of iOS.

And let me tell you something.......... I just don't see how Apple can innovate more with such a close OS. They can't add widgets in such a small and narrow screen, they can't allow extra keyboards, they can't allow software buttons, the won't add a capacitive button instead of the hardware one...

And they can't add true multitasking, widgets and such because the iPhone's battery is 1.400 or so, so iPhone 4S and 5 owners will never see this feature because their battery life would end faster.

You are trapped with old software...

Even the way to add files to the iPhone or iPad is cumbersome.

Do yourself a favour and leave iOS...
Posts like this really get to me.

NO other phone on the market integrates with other Apple devices like an iPhone. That is fact and what Apple is trying to achieve.

So in terms of an Apple user, no other phone on the market compares to an iPhone.

For me iOS is getting upgraded and integrating with other Apple devices perfectly.

Do I need iOS to change its look? No, i'm not 12.

All Apple need to do is worry about Apple. **** the rest.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 05:44 AM   #64
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Maybe you should try using a search engine?

How does a payment terminal know when to accept a payment? It needs a trigger and the idea behind nfc is that its short range (couple of cm's). Not 10m like BT. You "bump" the phone to another phone or to a payment terminal
and the close proximity of the two devices is what triggers the transfer.

That's why you comment about transmitting malware is so wrong. Very difficult for anyone to send your phone something when they have to almost have physical access to your device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
I am not sure what the advantage of this is - certainly bluetooth or WiFi would be better (or is the NFC used to set up a connection in bluetooth or WiFi?). Also, this sounds like an excellent way to transmit malware, and I'd be willing to bet that somebody somewhere will begin to exploit NFC in this regard (and since many credit cards have NFC perhaps that makes them vulnerable when they are near your phone?).

Anyways, I wonder if somebody could explain to me why NFC is not redundant with bluetooth? Why haven't pay systems been based on bluetooth? Is it thought NFC's smaller range adds security? Not trolling - genuinely interested.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:16 AM   #65
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How come no one is creating a Android is DOOM thread?
Might have something to do with Google, Samsung, Sony, LG, etc. all putting out hardware/software improvements faster than anyone else, offering more high-end options with different sizes, strengths, features, etc. We're moving toward flexible displays, water-proof handsets, 1080p...

All at a faster (much faster) rate than Apple is improving. No one's really afraid of Android falling behind the curve -- they're setting it. That fear is much more applicable to Apple and their business model and philosophy of intentionally slow incremental updates.

No one is or should be saying Apple is doomed -- no one knows that. But it's a folly to ignore the warning signs.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by The iGentleman View Post
you've been conditioned to do, due to being accustomed to limitations.
Very well said of iOS' and its limitations. The excuses are quite incredible. People are actually defending, and in some cases arguing for, the fact that it has less features and flexibility.

I've said this a ton of times before: it's ridiculous we have to first convince people that iOS needs improvement before we can even have an honest discussion about what to improve.

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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:27 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
I am not sure what the advantage of this is - certainly bluetooth or WiFi would be better (or is the NFC used to set up a connection in bluetooth or WiFi?). Also, this sounds like an excellent way to transmit malware, and I'd be willing to bet that somebody somewhere will begin to exploit NFC in this regard (and since many credit cards have NFC perhaps that makes them vulnerable when they are near your phone?).

Anyways, I wonder if somebody could explain to me why NFC is not redundant with bluetooth? Why haven't pay systems been based on bluetooth? Is it thought NFC's smaller range adds security? Not trolling - genuinely interested.
The range on NFC is so small you have to touch the specific spot, when doing NFC tasks from my Nexus 4 to my friends GS3 we have to rub phones against each others to find the exact NFC spot. That is what triggers the transfer. If someone were to try and NFC me Malware, he'd need access to both devices, and these devices would need to touch.

It's less fiddly than Bluetooth, no searching through menus and pairing, you just tap and it's done.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 06:57 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
I am not sure what the advantage of this is - certainly bluetooth or WiFi would be better (or is the NFC used to set up a connection in bluetooth or WiFi?). Also, this sounds like an excellent way to transmit malware, and I'd be willing to bet that somebody somewhere will begin to exploit NFC in this regard (and since many credit cards have NFC perhaps that makes them vulnerable when they are near your phone?).

Anyways, I wonder if somebody could explain to me why NFC is not redundant with bluetooth? Why haven't pay systems been based on bluetooth? Is it thought NFC's smaller range adds security? Not trolling - genuinely interested.
NFC uses less power and it only transmits when the screen is on and the device unlocked (ie when actively being used). The smaller range has a second benefit of using much less power than bluetooths greater range.

I think the Bump app is better than NFC for transferring files due to the faster transfer rate. It's available on Android as well as iOS.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:31 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by onthecouchagain View Post
Very well said of iOS' and its limitations. The excuses are quite incredible. People are actually defending, and in some cases arguing for, the fact that it has less features and flexibility.

I've said this a ton of times before: it's ridiculous we have to first convince people that iOS needs improvement before we can even have an honest discussion about what to improve.
Some of the limitations are understandable when you consider their target market.

We are all tech enthusiasts (we wouldn't be on an Apple forum otherwise) and therefore have a greater understanding of technology than a lot of non-technologically minded people. Apple wants the iPhone to be used by grandma, grandad, children and every other, let's say "not-so-skilled", group you can think of. They accomplish this quite well, but it comes at the cost of advanced features.

If you're a power user and need extreme customisation and the power to accomplish complicated tasks then the iPhone is probably not for you. Get an Android instead. It would be pointless if the iPhone could do everything Android could do because you'd just have two near-identical OSes. The iPhone's strengths are Android's weaknesses (simplicity and intuitiveness) and vice versa (customisation, freedom and power).

They are aimed at different markets.

For example, so many people complain about iOS being an app launcher, but that is GOOD for some people. My mum has my old HTC Desire and I must have told her 20 odd times how to open the app drawer but she always forgets. With iOS, the apps are there right in your face and you CAN'T miss them. That's a GOOD thing for the not-so-technically-minded.

iOS will never be like Android and Android will never be like iOS. People who say iOS needs improvement are tech enthusiasts who want enthusiast features. Sadly they're not what Apple cares about as they represent only a small chunk of the market.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 07:40 AM   #69
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I got my mom an iPhone 4 a few months prior to the release of the iPhone 4S(I knew the 4S was coming but she didn't want to wait). Well now she is due for an upgrade, and I asked her what phone she wanted assuming she would naturally say "iPhone 5". Well she actually said she wants a Galaxy SIII(we might wait for the S4). She cited the size of the screen, and vibrant colors of the display as being the main reason. So it seems like now, even non techie everyday people like my mom are getting wise to Apples incremental updates to the iPhone.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 08:53 AM   #70
TheHateMachine
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
You don't need NFC for that.

Wifi (like wifi direct on Android) or Bluetooth would be better options for sending files, because they have faster transfer rates.

You can't say email doesn't count either; it's a valid method.

If you have access to a computer you can use Bump to send documents/received files, but you need to do something with iTunes to get it to work..not ideal.

Bump can be used to send photos, videos, contacts between devices so long as you have an Internet connection simply by bumping them into each other. It's again likely to be faster than NFC, especially if connected to wifi.

Still don't see the need for NFC.

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Yep I agree something needs to be done about the emails..not that I really use it much these days on my personal device. Anybody using an iPhone for work would struggle to use it I think. I would at least!

There are plenty of other things you could do with regards to your tab problem. One is save the message/email/whatever and only go back to it when you have time to deal with it. Another is to create a note with all of the links in.

Apple puts a limitation on the number of tabs you can open because, news flash, browser tabs use up memory. I guess you'd rather it let you open up 50 pages and then complain about out of memory alerts or it not letting you do anything?

You have to remember that Apple caters for the average user who has little to no technical know-how. They want the UI to remain smooth, which they accomplish by limiting how many tabs you can open.
Android Beam uses NFC to establish a WiFi Direct connection when you use it with other android devices. It configures everything automatically and begins sending the file instantly with a simple phone bump and screen tap. It is hands down the best method of transferring anything when someone is right next to you.

Bump is limited to the internet connection you currently possess and has to be the current active application correct? It is also limited in what it can send compared to Android Beam.

As for the browser tab thing. I routinely have 25+ tabs open up in Chrome and do not experience either of the two issues you listed. Possibly due to the larger amount of system memory my device has perhaps? Regardless of what some people here may believe there are tangible benefits to having more system memory available.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:13 AM   #71
VulchR
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Originally Posted by kevinof View Post
Maybe you should try using a search engine?
Thanks for the help. Actually I prefer the advice in here to random sources cited by a search engine, because people here tend to have pretty good technical knowledge. Besides, search engines usually direct one to user forums for technical questions.

Quote:
How does a payment terminal know when to accept a payment? It needs a trigger and the idea behind nfc is that its short range (couple of cm's). Not 10m like BT. You "bump" the phone to another phone or to a payment terminal
and the close proximity of the two devices is what triggers the transfer.

That's why you comment about transmitting malware is so wrong. Very difficult for anyone to send your phone something when they have to almost have physical access to your device.
And the bump is completely hardware controlled so that a bump cannot be spoofed? Also, credit cards do not have login screens like phones, so it sounds as though they're less protected. As for close physical proximity, you've obviously have never been pick-pocketed....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
The range on NFC is so small you have to touch the specific spot, when doing NFC tasks from my Nexus 4 to my friends GS3 we have to rub phones against each others to find the exact NFC spot.
Kinky.

Quote:
That is what triggers the transfer. If someone were to try and NFC me Malware, he'd need access to both devices, and these devices would need to touch.
Again, I wonder about spoofing or attaching a malware payload to a legitimate file, but my expertise is limited.

Quote:
It's less fiddly than Bluetooth, no searching through menus and pairing, you just tap and it's done.
That makes more sense, but then couldn't bluetooth be configured to do that?

In any case, thank you for the information.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 09:32 AM   #72
The iGentleman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
I am not sure what the advantage of this is - certainly bluetooth or WiFi would be better (or is the NFC used to set up a connection in bluetooth or WiFi?).
Using NFC to give out your contact info is clearly more efficient than any other method. It can't be shared via WiFi, and to share it with bluetooth, the other person will have to make their device discoverable and then you'd have to go through the process of transmitting it. It's much simpler to tap my phone against yours and be done with it.

Quote:
Also, this sounds like an excellent way to transmit malware, and I'd be willing to bet that somebody somewhere will begin to exploit NFC in this regard (and since many credit cards have NFC perhaps that makes them vulnerable when they are near your phone?).
That's a bit of a reach there. For one, nobody can transmit anything to your phone without your knowledge. The range of NFC is so short that they'd have to be touching your phone to transmit anything.

Quote:
Anyways, I wonder if somebody could explain to me why NFC is not redundant with bluetooth? Why haven't pay systems been based on bluetooth? Is it thought NFC's smaller range adds security? Not trolling - genuinely interested.
There is definitely a large element of security using NFC, due to its extremely short range. Bluetooth on the other hand has a very large range (relatively speaking), and thus would be much more susceptible to the data transmission being intercepted. With NFC basically needing to be so close, the objects are touching, it would be quite difficult for someone to steal your information without you knowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Wifi (like wifi direct on Android) or Bluetooth would be better options for sending files, because they have faster transfer rates.
NFC can be used to transfer files via bluetooth. NFC allows you to skip the whole pairing process and go straight to transmitting the file. It's just an added convenience, instead of having to go through all the steps of bluetooth transfer.

Quote:
You can't say email doesn't count either; it's a valid method.
I'd say it doesn't. Like the person you were responding to, I don't give out my email address except to a select few people. Furthermore, sending files via email his horribly inefficient, ESPECIALLY if it's a larger file. You'd be having to wait for the file to be uploaded and the email sent. From there, the person you're sending it to has to wait for it to be downloaded. Then you get into the signal quality issue that could potentially impact how long it takes for said file to be uploaded and downloaded (this is especially true with larger files). It is much more efficient to send the file directly to the other person's phone, sending via email is just a workaround to account for a device limitation.

Quote:
If you have access to a computer you can use Bump to send documents/received files, but you need to do something with iTunes to get it to work..not ideal.

Bump can be used to send photos, videos, contacts between devices so long as you have an Internet connection simply by bumping them into each other. It's again likely to be faster than NFC, especially if connected to wifi.
I don't care for Bump for the same reason I don't care to use email to give someone a file. Also, understand that NFC isn't actually how the file is being transferred. NFC is just basically pairing the two devices together, but the files are not actually transmitted that way. Samsung uses NFC (S Beam) to send files via wifi-direct, while Android beam uses NFC to send files via bluetooth. NFC is only used to quickly connect the two devices instead of manually having to pair them (bluetooth) or manually set up wifi direct.



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[/COLOR]

Quote:
There are plenty of other things you could do with regards to your tab problem. One is save the message/email/whatever and only go back to it when you have time to deal with it. Another is to create a note with all of the links in.
That is just a workaround. It is still much simpler to just leave the tab open, especially if I've already started on that page and want to leave it at a certain point on the page.

Quote:
Apple puts a limitation on the number of tabs you can open because, news flash, browser tabs use up memory. I guess you'd rather it let you open up 50 pages and then complain about out of memory alerts or it not letting you do anything?

You have to remember that Apple caters for the average user who has little to no technical know-how. They want the UI to remain smooth, which they accomplish by limiting how many tabs you can open.
I have never encountered any device performance issues from having several tabs open. I prefer to be free to use my phone how I would like to, instead of the shackles of needless limitations dictating how I can or cannot use my phone.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:29 AM   #73
spinedoc77
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Originally Posted by Timzer View Post
I've said this many times, and now it seems to be showing. The Apple customer who believes Apple can do no wrong. That 3.5 inches is the perfect screen size, that LTE is not needed yet, that NFC is still not needed, that bigger screens are ridiculous, that quad core CPUs are overkill, that 2GB or RAM is overkill, that iOS is amazing even though it's still not much different than in 2007, etc... will be the very customers that bring Apple down. DEMANDING loyal customers are what feed innovation in a market and in a company. Now the competition is coming out in full force and have clearly shot past the iPhone in terms of hardware. Lets forget the OS for now. Hardware sells. Especially when that hardware clearly shows better on the sales floor. Believe what you like, but one thing is for certain, the market waits for no one. I truly believe you will see Apple coming out with a screen size well above 4 inches sooner than later. Samsung and Google seem to be on the fast road to world domination.
While I agree with what you say there also has to be something for the kind of user who doesn't want a huge screen, overblown specs or LTE. I know it's anathema to this forum, but personally I've tried the S3, the note, etc and I went back to the ip5 mainly because it's small. If I need to browse the internet or annotate a document I'll bring my tablet with me, maybe I'm getting old but even the Note's screen is too small to really do those things. As for specs, besides playing games I'm not seeing what use they are, I've never had an app which ran slowly and I wished I had a faster CPU, although I won't lie I have wished for more RAM in my ipad when browsing websites so I can see that in a tablet, but not so much in a phone. LTE I'm still trying to figure out what it's needed for, isn't HSPA+ more than fast enough to stream HD video? Dunno, I'm genuinely curious, especially in this brave new world of getting nickeled and dimed for any data usage. Even though LTE is superior I can't help but see it as an albatross, something to see just how fast you can reach your data cap, especially on a phone screen.

Hardware definitely sells and I'm not saying Apple shouldn't continue to improve in terms of screen size, specs, etc., I just hope they continue to offer a small svelte phone that just works. Heck I even was annoyed moving from the 4s to the 5 because it was bigger.

With that said I can't wait to see where flexible displays go, this will some day solve this issue. You can have your 3.5" phone screen, but when you want you can unfold it to a larger tablet size. I know they are not foldable yet, maybe rollable, but I'm sure we will see it in the near future.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 10:56 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Android keyboard is better because you can customise the user dictionary and only have to tell it once that you don't want something to be corrected. iOS keyboard is still perfectly capable to type on. It's taken me about 15 seconds to type this post so far on my iPhone.
In a sense defending iOS's keyboard, which has not changed one bit since 2007, is kind of what the OP was talking about. Why, in 2013, must we type what we want repeatedly, like some sort of trained monkey, before it finally--maybe--gets it?

For that matter why are we stuck with Apple's choice for a keyboard. Why can't we use SwiftKey, or Swype? Or any other keyboard we choose? SwiftKey is so good I sometimes think it is reading my mind. But I can't use it on my iPhone or iPad. No way to defend that in my book.


Quote:
Never have eight tabs open but I can see why it would be annoying for the people that do. I would however question why you'd ever need more than eight tabs open, you can't be actively using all eight tabs at the same time, so just add websites you visit regularly to your bookmarks and browse to them that way whenever you want to.

Some valid points but that last one is a bit silly.
Here we go again with defending the indefensible. You should be asking why the heck is there still an 8-tab limit in Safari, all these years after the iPhone was released.

Back in 2007 just the idea of tabs in a mobile browser was cool, so the 8-tab limitation didn't seem all that bad. But now it is 2013.

With all due respect you have once again done what the OP was talking about: you are arguing that it is not needed. I'm not going to debate why it is needed but I currently have 11 tabs open in Chrome on my Nexus 4. There were actually people back in 2007 arguing that we didn't really need copy-and-paste. Seriously.




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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:03 AM   #75
matttye
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Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Android Beam uses NFC to establish a WiFi Direct connection when you use it with other android devices. It configures everything automatically and begins sending the file instantly with a simple phone bump and screen tap. It is hands down the best method of transferring anything when someone is right next to you.

Bump is limited to the internet connection you currently possess and has to be the current active application correct? It is also limited in what it can send compared to Android Beam.

As for the browser tab thing. I routinely have 25+ tabs open up in Chrome and do not experience either of the two issues you listed. Possibly due to the larger amount of system memory my device has perhaps? Regardless of what some people here may believe there are tangible benefits to having more system memory available.
No. Android Beam uses NFC for both pairing and transfer. S Beam (limited to Samsung devices) uses NFC for pairing and WiFi direct for transfer.

Bump is faster than Android Beam most of the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The iGentleman View Post
NFC can be used to transfer files via bluetooth. NFC allows you to skip the whole pairing process and go straight to transmitting the file. It's just an added convenience, instead of having to go through all the steps of bluetooth transfer.
That's using NFC simply as a pairing tool and not to actually carry out the transfer. There's a difference. It is convenient, sure, but it's not really that inconvenient to just pair them using the usual bluetooth or WiFi direct methods. The benefit of those two methods is of course that you don't even need to get off your lazy arse, you can stay where you're sat

As far as I know Android Beam uses NFC itself to transfer the file, so if you broke away from the other phone mid-transfer it would pause/stop. I can't find anything online which suggests it uses Bluetooth.

NFC transfer rates are 106, 212 or 424 kbit/s according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication

Quote:
Originally Posted by The iGentleman View Post
I'd say it doesn't. Like the person you were responding to, I don't give out my email address except to a select few people. Furthermore, sending files via email his horribly inefficient, ESPECIALLY if it's a larger file. You'd be having to wait for the file to be uploaded and the email sent. From there, the person you're sending it to has to wait for it to be downloaded. Then you get into the signal quality issue that could potentially impact how long it takes for said file to be uploaded and downloaded (this is especially true with larger files). It is much more efficient to send the file directly to the other person's phone, sending via email is just a workaround to account for a device limitation.
Just because you don't want to use it doesn't make it invalid. Using Android Beam to send a large file would be ridiculously slow.. have you tried it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The iGentleman View Post
I don't care for Bump for the same reason I don't care to use email to give someone a file. Also, understand that NFC isn't actually how the file is being transferred. NFC is just basically pairing the two devices together, but the files are not actually transmitted that way. Samsung uses NFC (S Beam) to send files via wifi-direct, while Android beam uses NFC to send files via bluetooth. NFC is only used to quickly connect the two devices instead of manually having to pair them (bluetooth) or manually set up wifi direct.
Everything I can find online suggests it uses NFC itself for the transfer.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
In a sense defending iOS's keyboard, which has not changed one bit since 2007, is kind of what the OP was talking about. Why, in 2013, must we type what we want repeatedly, like some sort of trained monkey, before it finally--maybe--gets it?

For that matter why are we stuck with Apple's choice for a keyboard. Why can't we use SwiftKey, or Swype? Or any other keyboard we choose? SwiftKey is so good I sometimes think it is reading my mind. But I can't use it on my iPhone or iPad. No way to defend that in my book.

Here we go again with defending the indefensible. You should be asking why the heck is there still an 8-tab limit in Safari, all these years after the iPhone was released.

Back in 2007 just the idea of tabs in a mobile browser was cool, so the 8-tab limitation didn't seem all that bad. But now it is 2013.

With all due respect you have once again done what the OP was talking about: you are arguing that it is not needed. I'm not going to debate why it is needed but I currently have 11 tabs open in Chrome on my Nexus 4. There were actually people back in 2007 arguing that we didn't really need copy-and-paste. Seriously.




Michael
I explained all of this in my post which you appear not to have read in full. Apple tries to cater for people with little to no technical know how, so they don't try to make iOS customisable and unnecessarily complex. They just want people to be able to pick it up and use it without any problems.

If there were no limits to the number of tabs open in the browser (which are stored in RAM so that you can quickly switch between them), then you would soon run out of memory, especially if you opened lots of image-heavy websites.

You will find that there are some people who would just continually open new tabs and never close the old ones because they didn't realise that they could. This is meant as a protective measure for those people.

I'm not defending the indefensible. You just fail to comprehend the kinds of users iOS was designed for.
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