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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:08 AM   #76
Tinmania
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Originally Posted by rmhop81 View Post
I just find it funny about all the complaints about iPhone 5 from people that have owned the 4 AND the 4s....

where were the big complaints from lack of upgrades from 4 to 4s? All the sudden apple comes out with a bigger screen and LTE and now everyone is pissed there weren't more upgrades? No one complained about lack of upgrade from the 4 to 4s but now everyone is outraged about the iPhone 5?
Huh? There were a ton of complaints back in October, 2011 that about the only thing the 4S brought was Siri.

But I bought the 4S. Why? I will have to admit it was mostly because I was used to upgrading my iPhone when a new one came out (I only skipped the 3G because there was no 3G in my city yet). I hadn't been disappointed before: I LOVED my shiny new iPhone 4 and even my 3GS before that.

But my 4S? Not so much. I almost felt it was a mistake getting it.

You know what they say about "fool me once?" Well that is how I felt when the iPhone 5 was announced. I could not pull the trigger.

I believe a lot of Apple's sales right now are due to the similar inertia that caused me to get the 4S. But inertia like that really can't last.

That is not saying I am not hoping for Apple to pull another home-run. I am!!!




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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:18 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
Apple puts a limitation on the number of tabs you can open because, news flash, browser tabs use up memory. I guess you'd rather it let you open up 50 pages and then complain about out of memory alerts or it not letting you do anything?
Come on now, you can't actually believe what you just typed.

Do you really think it is necessary to keep every single tab in memory all of the time? There are countless ways to handle open tabs without using RAM.

Here is a question for you: why, after you completely power down the iPhone, are your tabs in Safari (or any other browser) still there when you power it back up?




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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:19 AM   #78
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Instead of them having to create a contact, getting the spelling of my name correct,
and then jot down the information...I simply tapped my phone, and they had all my contact info.

That is horribly inefficient, and unprofessional (if used for business).

Your solution of bookmarking is something you've been conditioned to do,
due to being accustomed to limitations.

By leaving the tabs open, once I'm done with them all, I can simply tap clear all tabs, and I'm done.
Gee's Finally - Did any of these people ever use a BlackBerry ten years ago
for actual business to get a feel of how it used to always be -
'Never be Locked into the Fake New World Order'.

These are just Some of the same items that were hated by the leader.
I really can't believe I let my partner suck me into it - I loved my Blackberry -
I could travel anywhere in world - flip out sim cards and have my own Amsterdam phone number in one minute.

Next day in Sweden -
Next week in Germany -

This whole deal is quite upsetting actually - but I'm within being free again shortly to escape all of it.

There's no way you could land in Amsterdam with this iPhone and have less than a $500 bill when you return in one month.
You will be lied to straight in the face by your service that it's only a dollar a minute to roam while in Europe -
when it's no less than $5 a min.

$5 dollars a min -
You'll get it figured out after weeks of argument and still owe $500 dollars. I'll skip all that.

When in reality - flipping to local sim card in a normal phone - it's less than 50 euro's a month.
Not to mention the charges even leaving your phone on while there - you still get charged. I'll skip that detail as well.

Leave it in airplane mode - until verified it's only on wifi & bluetooth.
Or flat out shut it off.

Remember one thing -
with local sim card - all calls to your set are free - It's just the cool way it's done in Europe.
Not both parties like here.

Only calls you make are charged - So like I said - 50 Euro card could last 2 months - and to make it very cool - I have returned within 3 months - and still had 40 euro credit.

Drive across the border to Germany - get a Germany Sim - that simple.
Have Fun - copy and save to travel folder - can always pm for other details.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:21 AM   #79
daveathall
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I have NFC, Bluetooth and wifi on my phone if needed, it gives me a choice of whether or not I want to use any of them, I would rather have them on my phone than not, adding NFC doesn't make it bigger, heavier and can be switched off if not required. It can also be turned on if one chooses to do so.

Last edited by daveathall; Jan 15, 2013 at 12:13 PM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:28 AM   #80
Philscbx
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Originally Posted by ugahairydawgs View Post
1. 3.5" screens are perfect for some people.

Just because one person thinks that their Galaxy Note's 5.5" screen is the sweet spot is irrelevant.
Just wait - I'll bet Ya $500 - when you turn 43 - you'll do anything to get the 5.5.
Pulling out a set of Readers - disqualified again.

Irrelevant?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 11:28 AM   #81
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No. Android Beam uses NFC for both pairing and transfer.

That's using NFC simply as a pairing tool and not to actually carry out the transfer. There's a difference. It is convenient, sure, but it's not really that inconvenient to just pair them using the usual bluetooth or WiFi direct methods. The benefit of those two methods is of course that you don't even need to get off your lazy arse, you can stay where you're sat

As far as I know Android Beam uses NFC itself to transfer the file, so if you broke away from the other phone mid-transfer it would pause/stop. I can't find anything online which suggests it uses Bluetooth.

NFC transfer rates are 106, 212 or 424 kbit/s according to Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication
Seems we are both wrong. As of 4.1, Android Beam uses bluetooth for the transfer portion when files are large. As evidenced by your wikipedia article and various posts on different forums. Even on XDA they bemoan the use of Bluetooth in it and are attempting a port of the S-Beam apk to non touchwiz devices. The cited source even states "or another alternate transport to achieve faster transfer speeds." So WiFi could be used in Android Beam at a later time.

Here is the citation from wikipedia.

http://developer.android.com/about/v...l#Connectivity
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:01 PM   #82
Tinmania
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
I explained all of this in my post which you appear not to have read in full. Apple tries to cater for people with little to no technical know how, so they don't try to make iOS customisable and unnecessarily complex. They just want people to be able to pick it up and use it without any problems.

If there were no limits to the number of tabs open in the browser (which are stored in RAM so that you can quickly switch between them), then you would soon run out of memory, especially if you opened lots of image-heavy websites.

You will find that there are some people who would just continually open new tabs and never close the old ones because they didn't realise that they could. This is meant as a protective measure for those people.

I'm not defending the indefensible. You just fail to comprehend the kinds of users iOS was designed for.
Please stop about tabs and RAM usage. It's really naive.

In my opinion once again you are defending a shortcoming as if it were an advantage. If people are as clueless as you assert then the 8 tab limitation is going to be hit right away. Then what does clueless user do when at a later time they want to go back to what they thought was an open tab?

It's been more than 6 years since the iPhone was announced. People are much more used to smartphones than they were back then. Practically everyone has one. And they don't seem to be as clueless, to me, as you seemingly assert.




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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:17 PM   #83
matttye
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Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Seems we are both wrong. As of 4.1, Android Beam uses bluetooth for the transfer portion when files are large. As evidenced by your wikipedia article and various posts on different forums. Even on XDA they bemoan the use of Bluetooth in it and are attempting a port of the S-Beam apk to non touchwiz devices. The cited source even states "or another alternate transport to achieve faster transfer speeds." So WiFi could be used in Android Beam at a later time.

Here is the citation from wikipedia.

http://developer.android.com/about/v...l#Connectivity
Fair enough, wasn't aware android beam had been changed since its implementation! That makes it a bit better, but I still think NFC is a luxury feature rather than a necessity.

It's not difficult to just pair Bluetooth devices anyway!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:21 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
Please stop about tabs and RAM usage.
you are defending a shortcoming as if it were an advantage.
Michael
Totally Awesome - the ultimate design for the Challenged -
don't wonder too far & be discovering new ways to do stuff.

A new thread for 'O Brother where Art Thou'.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:24 PM   #85
matttye
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Originally Posted by Tinmania View Post
Please stop about tabs and RAM usage. It's really naive.

In my opinion once again you are defending a shortcoming as if it were an advantage. If people are as clueless as you assert then the 8 tab limitation is going to be hit right away. Then what does clueless user do when at a later time they want to go back to what they thought was an open tab?

It's been more than 6 years since the iPhone was announced. People are much more used to smartphones than they were back then. Practically everyone has one. And they don't seem to be as clueless, to me, as you seemingly assert.




Michael
I support three clueless solicitors nearly every day with technology questions on pcs, smartphones and other gadgets. There really are technologically clueless people out there.

Why do you think Apple limits the number of tabs you can open if not to save memory?

Saving tabs to disk when the phone is shut down is logical. They're not stored on disk all the time though. If they were stored on disk, then the page would have to refresh every single time you switched tabs, which clearly isn't the case. Every time you go back to the browser or switch tabs and a page refreshes, that's because something else has used the memory that that page was using.

It makes sense to keep pages loaded into memory for fast switching and fluidity in the UI - something you ought to know that Apple finds quite important.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:40 PM   #86
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I've had an iPhone for years but it's been left behind so I'm moving on. It just seems since Leopard was introduced all the innovation has just abruptly stopped. I know saturation kicks in but it's like they aren't even trying anymore with their software. I mean really a 5th row of icons.

Even RIM the company everyone loved to hate has caught up and passed it with Blackberry 10 which is why their stock is climbing while Apple's is crashing.

Last edited by powderblue17; Jan 15, 2013 at 12:47 PM.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:57 PM   #87
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Fair enough, wasn't aware android beam had been changed since its implementation! That makes it a bit better, but I still think NFC is a luxury feature rather than a necessity.

It's not difficult to just pair Bluetooth devices anyway!
You are right, it is not. However in my opinion one of the big draws of owning a smartphone is convenience. Features here or there that make things easier and/or faster.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:02 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Philscbx View Post
Just wait - I'll bet Ya $500 - when you turn 43 - you'll do anything to get the 5.5.
Pulling out a set of Readers - disqualified again.

Irrelevant?
Did you fully read what I wrote? Or did you just skim every other word?

Because your response points towards the latter.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:04 PM   #89
matttye
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You are right, it is not. However in my opinion one of the big draws of owning a smartphone is convenience. Features here or there that make things easier and/or faster.
I agree and I actually like NFC, I just don't like seeing people blow features out of all proportion.

When people act like the iPhone is prehistoric because it doesn't have NFC, I can't help but laugh.

The main reason I used it when I had my S3 was to use in conjunction with NFC tags to make it easier to toggle settings, but the battery on my iPhone is great even when I leave everything on all the time so there's no need to do that.

I didn't really know anybody else with an NFC capable Android phone at the time so file transfers weren't any good to me.

And payment systems in the UK seem to be non-existent so far.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:06 PM   #90
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Even RIM the company everyone loved to hate has caught up and passed it with Blackberry 10 which is why their stock is climbing while Apple's is crashing.
Noted for future claim chowder.

I suspect the sun has set for RIM, they ignored industry trends for far too long, and simply do not have the resources to fight what has become a two horse race. Especially with Microsoft's resources which they are more than willing to part with to be in distant third.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:09 PM   #91
Tinmania
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Originally Posted by matttye View Post
I support three clueless solicitors nearly every day with technology questions on pcs, smartphones and other gadgets. There really are technologically clueless people out there.

Why do you think Apple limits the number of tabs you can open if not to save memory?

Saving tabs to disk when the phone is shut down is logical. They're not stored on disk all the time though. If they were stored on disk, then the page would have to refresh every single time you switched tabs, which clearly isn't the case. Every time you go back to the browser or switch tabs and a page refreshes, that's because something else has used the memory that that page was using.

It makes sense to keep pages loaded into memory for fast switching and fluidity in the UI - something you ought to know that Apple finds quite important.
I never said RAM is not used for caching open tabs, if available. But it can and is released anytime it is needed for something else. One would assume this would work in a FIFO manner so that your most-recently used tabs get priority. Moreover, that doesn't mean they are not concurrently saved in flash memory. They most certainly are and is why they will be there even if you force close Safari immediately after opening a new tab. The new tab will be there--every time.

But to finally put it to rest, the argument about RAM being the reason for an 8-tab limitation is easily debunked through observation:

1.) Chrome (or other browsers). No problem whatsoever and no degradation other than not being allowed to use the nitro engine (grrrrr.... but that is a gripe for another day).

2.) Safari on the iPad 2 running iOS 6 has a 24 tab limitation. That is 4 times the number that is allowed on the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5. Yet, the iPad 2 has half the RAM.

Can we put this one to bed now?



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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:24 PM   #92
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I never said RAM is not used for caching open tabs, if available. But it can and is released anytime it is needed for something else. One would assume this would work in a FIFO manner so that your most-recently used tabs get priority. Moreover, that doesn't mean they are not concurrently saved in flash memory. They most certainly are and is why they will be there even if you force close Safari immediately after opening a new tab. The new tab will be there--every time.

But to finally put it to rest, the argument about RAM being the reason for an 8-tab limitation is easily debunked through observation:

1.) Chrome (or other browsers). No problem whatsoever and no degradation other than not being allowed to use the nitro engine (grrrrr.... but that is a gripe for another day).

2.) Safari on the iPad 2 running iOS 6 has a 24 tab limitation. That is 4 times the number that is allowed on the iPhone 4S and iPhone 5. Yet, the iPad 2 has half the RAM.

Can we put this one to bed now?



Michael
The majority of your post agrees with me so I'm just going to comment on your two supposed debunks:

1) Chrome isn't designed by Apple so it's quite irrelevant.

2) This is a better point than your first, and one that I don't really have an answer for other than that Apple may have forgot to change the limit. They've forgotten to change things before, such as the volume slider on the lock screen. It's the only one that doesn't match the new style.

In any event: why do you think they limit the number of tabs if not a performance issue / forgotten change?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:41 PM   #93
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Noted for future claim chowder.

I suspect the sun has set for RIM, they ignored industry trends for far too long, and simply do not have the resources to fight what has become a two horse race. Especially with Microsoft's resources which they are more than willing to part with to be in distant third.
They still have 80 million users and the US market is not the entire world. Also BB10 is launching with like 70,000 apps while Windows Phone 8 had about 4000.

Anyway the same argument could have been made about Apple in the late 90's which was cool to say but wrong.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:43 PM   #94
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It's amazing that there are examples in this very thread of the type of Apple fans the OP is talking about.

Obfuscation once again has left us convincing people that iOS needs improving instead of actually discussing what to improve.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 01:47 PM   #95
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They still have 80 million users and the US market is not the entire world. Also BB10 is launching with like 70,000 apps while Windows Phone 8 had about 4000.

Anyway the same argument could have been made about Apple in the late 90's which was cool to say but wrong.

I'd like to know what percentage of users are US government workers. For some reason the DoD and other government agencies seem to hold on to RIM. If the government decides to explore real options out there RIM would probably feel the punch.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:01 PM   #96
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It's amazing that there are examples in this very thread of the type of Apple fans the OP is talking about.
This is coming from someone who was all about the Nexus 4 and how great it is...then you create a thread about all the issues it has and how many people are sending theirs back. interesting.

Look at where apple is right now with 1 current model phone and 2 old phones on the market.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:11 PM   #97
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It's amazing that there are examples in this very thread of the type of Apple fans the OP is talking about.

Obfuscation once again has left us convincing people that iOS needs improving instead of actually discussing what to improve.
This is because people are like "HURR DURR limitations HURR DURR" without actually stopping to think about whether Apple has a valid reason.

Perhaps the most valid reason of all is that their OS is supposed to be simple enough for everyone to use!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:16 PM   #98
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The majority of your post agrees with me so I'm just going to comment on your two supposed debunks:

1) Chrome isn't designed by Apple so it's quite irrelevant.
It is not irrelevant at all. Apple would not allow it in the app store if the design compromised performance as you seemingly believe. You can open 50 tabs in Chrome and nothing happens to degrade performance.



Quote:
2) This is a better point than your first, and one that I don't really have an answer for other than that Apple may have forgot to change the limit. They've forgotten to change things before, such as the volume slider on the lock screen. It's the only one that doesn't match the new style.

In any event: why do you think they limit the number of tabs if not a performance issue / forgotten change?
I don't really care what their reason is. I assume it is just like everything else: they think they know best and what users want doesn't really matter all that much. But I know it is not about RAM or performance.

Once again I would like to point out that this is exactly what the OP was talking about. Instead of realizing it is a drawback to the iPhone you are seemingly grasping at straws trying to justify why Apple does it. I suspect if in iOS 7 there is suddenly no tab limitation, or greatly increased, it will be because that was the perfect time for it.

Instead you should be questioning why such an artificial limitation is there and for so danged long. IMO of course.




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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:18 PM   #99
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I'd like to know what percentage of users are US government workers. For some reason the DoD and other government agencies seem to hold on to RIM. If the government decides to explore real options out there RIM would probably feel the punch.
Maybe because they've passed the FIPS 140-2 security certification.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 02:22 PM   #100
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Perhaps the most valid reason of all is that their OS is supposed to be simple enough for everyone to use!
I'd reconsider whether that's a valid excuse this day and age.

This fear of adding some freedom, flexibility, options, features, etc. might be abated by the fact that Apple offers classes in their stores where people sign up and line up happily for. Every time I visit an Apple store, the classes are packed. Packed with people eager to learn how to use their new shiny products.

And for the "most innovative" company in the world that has the supposedly best people working there, is it a little silly to say they really can't come up with a way to dynamically improve iOS and still make it simple enough to use or, at the very least, teach?
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