Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:35 PM   #76
InuNacho
macrumors 65816
 
InuNacho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In that one place
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chihawk725 View Post
If apple starts creating cheaper lower quality products merely to compete with less innovative companies then they will have fundamentally turned their back on the core model that Steve Jobs put in place to make them so successful.
This thing's a cheaper low quality product.
InuNacho is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:37 PM   #77
Michael Scrip
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech4all View Post

Nope. More quantity = more money. If they could sell the regular iPhone in addition to a cheaper iPhone that will bring in MORE users that don't already have an iPhone. You can't tell me that if you're running Apple you wouldn't make a cheaper iPhone that would bring in more profit just because it's not 'top quality?' Comon now...
In theory that makes sense.

If Person A simply cannot afford an iPhone... Apple will get ZERO dollars from them. In that case it's better to sell them a cheaper iPhone instead of nothing at all.

The danger is if Person B can afford an iPhone... but they opt for the cheaper iPhone anyway because it's good enough. That would be a loss of potential revenue.

Still though... it's better to cannibalize yourself instead of letting someone else doing it. It will be a delicate battle.
Michael Scrip is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:38 PM   #78
Codyak
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
They already do, don't they?
Normal cheap, not Apple cheap.
Codyak is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:38 PM   #79
that1guyy
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
I really hope this isn't true. If it is, Apple has lot its way.
__________________
I have a signature!
that1guyy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:39 PM   #80
damir00
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
$149 with no contract? In 2013? They couldn't even get a less capable iPod Touch down that low.

Having trouble believing the pricing on this....
damir00 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:40 PM   #81
a0me
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Apple doesn't race to the bottom on price. Of course nobody can rule out a 180 shift in strategy, but I can't think of any Apple products competing in the lower price range. Even the cheaper iPad mini is still more expensive than similar speced tablets.
__________________
iMac 24"; MacBook Pro 15"; iPhone 4; iPhone 5s; iPod touch; tv
a0me is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:43 PM   #82
Radio
In Time-Out
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
Just like there wasn't going to be a mini iPad or larger iPhone?
Same people that think lance Armstrong is innocent
Radio is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:44 PM   #83
mrsir2009
macrumors 604
 
mrsir2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chihawk725 View Post
If apple starts creating cheaper lower quality products merely to compete with less innovative companies then they will have fundamentally turned their back on the core model that Steve Jobs put in place to make them so successful. The people who buy those cheap models are the exact people that turn companies into commonplace entities with no desire or air of mystery too them. You do not see Bentley making a $20K coupe or True Religion making $15 jeans and you never will because then those brands like apple would lose their key ingredients, quality and exclusivity.
The thing is, is when everyone compares Apple time and time again to luxury car makers, they fail to realize that these luxury car makers aren't experiencing high growth. They never really have, and they never really will: Because they're niche manufactures. And their shareholders know & understand that. However Apple isn't a niche manufacturer - Every western high schooler sports an iPhone these days, every 10 yr old an iPod Touch, every teacher an iPad or MacBook, etc etc... Making it the opposite of niche. Apple products are common. So common, in fact, that Apple have almost run out of room to grow in the west (especially the U.S). Apple's shareholders are used to high growth - They bought into Apple for high growth, and they expect Apple to keep delivering high growth. And since every American that's going to buy an iPhone has already bought one, the growth will slow dramatically unless they break into another massive market. If they break into China & India, they will make ********s of money, as even if the profit margins are smaller, they'll make it up in sheer numbers.
mrsir2009 is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:44 PM   #84
damir00
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by a0me View Post
...I can't think of any Apple products competing in the lower price range.
I'd say $49 iPods qualify...
damir00 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:46 PM   #85
mrsir2009
macrumors 604
 
mrsir2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by damir00 View Post
$149 with no contract? In 2013? They couldn't even get a less capable iPod Touch down that low.

Having trouble believing the pricing on this....
More like $400-$500.
mrsir2009 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:48 PM   #86
Michael Scrip
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by a0me View Post

Apple doesn't race to the bottom on price. Of course nobody can rule out a 180 shift in strategy, but I can't think of any Apple products competing in the lower price range. Even the cheaper iPad mini is still more expensive than similar speced tablets.
I think it will depend on how inexpensive they go.

If the iPhone 4 goes for $450... is $300 low enough?

Or are we talking about a $200 phone?

Like I said earlier... it's better to get some money from people instead of no money at all. Apple is definitely leaving a lot of money on the table by not offering an entry-level phone.

But like you said... Apple has never played that game before. It will be interesting to watch.
Michael Scrip is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:48 PM   #87
jjatie
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjatie View Post
While there is already a $0 (on contract) iPhone, there is room for Apple to introduce another.

When the next generation iPhone comes out (5S?), there will be only one device left with a) a 30-pin dock connector and b) a 3.5" screen. A retooling of an iPhone 5 with a cheaper case and the current 4S internals might make sense to hasten Lightning and 4" screens (for devs) ubiquity.

This would of course replace the 4S in the next revision of the iPhone line.
In response to my argument for Apple retooling their $0 iPhone, and to all of the "it's needed for developing nations" arguments, there's the fact that above all else, Apple is an engineering company.

Look at the last few years, 2012 especially. Just about every product they introduced was the best product Apple ever designed. Not just in it's product line, but in all of Apple. The iPad 3 was the best designed and manufactured, the Retina MBP was then the best designed and manufactured with the best screen they've ever used, then the iPhone 5, by far and away the best designed and manufactured and (just a few months after the rMBP) the best screen they've ever used. The iPad mini had many of the design and manufacturing elements from the iPhone 5. The iMac came out at the same time and was one of the best designed and manufactured products they've done.

If you also look at the elements in each of Apple's products, they carry many of the same design attributes, and not just aesthetically. The unibody, the screen lamination, while it wasn't discussed I'm sure the iPad mini now uses the same case to part matching that was described in the iPhone 5 intro. I'm sure that the friction stir welding will be used in upcoming product refreshes as well. These things cost a lot of money, and are a mark of pride for Apple. To release a new product (and to Apple the iPad 2, and 3 were entirely new products though I'm sure the 4 wasn't) without at the very least incorporating the most sophisticated design elements they know how would hurt their pride.

They don't care about catering to emerging markets nearly as much as they do making the best product they know how. They are making money hand over fist, and therefor can afford to concern themselves with what they've been concerned about for the last decade, what they reiterate in every single video they release, to make the best product they can.
jjatie is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:48 PM   #88
damir00
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
If they break into China & India, they will make ********s of money, as even if the profit margins are smaller, they'll make it up in sheer numbers.
Apple's margins on current iPhones are north of $300 per phone.

On a $149 phone, they'd be lucky to pocket $10.

There aren't enough smarphone buyers on the planet to make up for a 30x headwind.
damir00 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:50 PM   #89
ufwa
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
In theory that makes sense.

If Person A simply cannot afford an iPhone... Apple will get ZERO dollars from them. In that case it's better to sell them a cheaper iPhone instead of nothing at all.

The danger is if Person B can afford an iPhone... but they opt for the cheaper iPhone anyway because it's good enough. That would be a loss of potential revenue.

Still though... it's better to cannibalize yourself instead of letting someone else doing it. It will be a delicate battle.
B will always be there if you offer a choice of any kind.

Only way to prevent is to offer 1 model and that's it. No 16/32/64 sizes.

Or a simpler solution is to just restrict the market. There are plenty of items that are market restricted.
ufwa is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:52 PM   #90
mrsir2009
macrumors 604
 
mrsir2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by damir00 View Post
Apple's margins on current iPhones are north of $300 per phone.

On a $149 phone, they'd be lucky to pocket $10.

There aren't enough smarphone buyers on the planet to make up for a 30x headwind.
The new iPhone is not going to be $149 - I can tell you that. It's going to be a midrange phone, not a Samsung Galaxy Y. Think maybe, $450 for the 8GB model, $500 for the 16GB model. With feature and hardware reductions, there's enough there for a pretty decent profit.
mrsir2009 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:53 PM   #91
HavocLink
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
I would call bs on this one, but then again I did the same with the iPad mini.
HavocLink is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:53 PM   #92
wesk702
macrumors 65816
 
wesk702's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: The hood
They are already giving away the 3GS for free. What can be cheaper than that?
wesk702 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:55 PM   #93
mrsir2009
macrumors 604
 
mrsir2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by ufwa View Post
B will always be there if you offer a choice of any kind.

Only way to prevent is to offer 1 model and that's it. No 16/32/64 sizes.

Or a simpler solution is to just restrict the market. There are plenty of items that are market restricted.
That'd be a good move - If they only sell the budget iPhone in Asia, then it wouldn't get back to the western market in any force, as Apple will have the fact that it's a budget phone on their side. I mean, buying a budget phone is kinda pointless when you have to pony up tonnes of $$$ to import it from Asia.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesk702 View Post
They are already giving away the 3GS for free. What can be cheaper than that?
Again, this is going to be aimed at the prepaid market.
mrsir2009 is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:57 PM   #94
avanpelt
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
I don't understand how expanding their potential reach with consumers is a bad move for Apple. If a lower cost phone performs as advertised, all should be well. If they over promise and under deliver on a lower cost iPhone like they did with Apple Maps, they will be in trouble.

I think it's only the folks who view their iPhone as a status symbol that say it's a bad move for Apple to sell a less expensive, slower phone for less money off-contract. To anyone who sees their phone as a status symbol, I'm sorry, I just don't get it. It's a freaking phone. A communication tool. We all pretty much have one.

If pulling your iPhone out of your pocket makes you feel superior, I think you need to stop and think about the metrics you're using to build up your own status in your head. A phone? Really?
avanpelt is offline   5 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:58 PM   #95
lazyrighteye
macrumors 65816
 
lazyrighteye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Denver, CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by sshambles View Post
It makes sense to make a cheaper one. I just didn't expect it from Apple, but if it sells and works well, why not?
If it's from Apple, I expect it will sell and work well.
lazyrighteye is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:59 PM   #96
akfgpuppet
macrumors member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: The 831
Send a message via Skype™ to akfgpuppet
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotluck View Post
prepaid plans I would guess, people could even use it as a dumbphone with data only on wifi
That's called an iPod Touch.
akfgpuppet is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:59 PM   #97
dazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
I wonder how they will make it cheaper.

Slower A chip?
Slower and less memory?
No GPS?
Stick with the 4S case rather that the 5?
dazed is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2013, 11:59 PM   #98
damir00
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjatie View Post
The iMac came out at the same time and was one of the best designed and manufactured products they've done.
Ixnay on that one. If the design causes supply constraints because of build complexity, then it is anything but "best designed and manufactured".
damir00 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:00 AM   #99
a0me
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by damir00 View Post
I'd say $49 iPods qualify...
No they don't.
Other 2GB MP3 players such as Philips SoundDot or SanDisk Sansa are in the $10-20 range.
The iPod shuffle is more expensive by a factor of 3 to 5. Most of these even support video playback (http://www.valleyseek.com/coby-mp715...how_item/39309)

__________________
iMac 24"; MacBook Pro 15"; iPhone 4; iPhone 5s; iPod touch; tv

Last edited by a0me; Jan 15, 2013 at 12:06 AM.
a0me is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jan 15, 2013, 12:02 AM   #100
jjatie
macrumors newbie
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
The thing is, is when everyone compares Apple time and time again to luxury car makers, they fail to realize that these luxury car makers aren't experiencing high growth. They never really have, and they never really will: Because they're niche manufactures. And their shareholders know & understand that. However Apple isn't a niche manufacturer - Every western high schooler sports an iPhone these days, every 10 yr old an iPod Touch, every teacher an iPad or MacBook, etc etc... Making it the opposite of niche. Apple products are common. So common, in fact, that Apple have almost run out of room to grow in the west (especially the U.S). Apple's shareholders are used to high growth - They bought into Apple for high growth, and they expect Apple to keep delivering high growth. And since every American that's going to buy an iPhone has already bought one, the growth will slow dramatically unless they break into another massive market. If they break into China & India, they will make ********s of money, as even if the profit margins are smaller, they'll make it up in sheer numbers.
I'd argue that the reason the high end car manufacturers are niche markets is because they're products only start at $50k. Apple's products start at $329. While some say that they offer only expensive computers, expensive computers (phones, etc.) are a LOT more accessible than expensive cars.

If you look at any car manufacturer, there is little growth. It is a fully saturated market. The main audience looking to buy new cars are new people. Again, even a cheap car isn't as accessible as an expensive computer.

Also, Apple has not run out of room to grow in the USA. The PC market is stagnant, but the smartphone market is far from it. Apple can still grow in the PC market (they have substantially outgrown a declining market for a couple years now), it just means other companies have to shrink. In the smartphone market, if Apple is 35% of the smartphone market but 18% of the overall mobile phone market <http://dawn.com/2013/01/04/apple-google-gain-in-us-smartphone-market-survey/>, than that means only about half the mobile phone market are smartphones. If Apple only maintains their smartphone share, they can still double their sales in the US.
jjatie is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High-Resolution Renderings of Apple's Lower-Cost Plastic iPhone MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 292 Jun 11, 2014 03:28 PM
Possible Photos of Plastic Rear Shell from Apple's Lower-Cost iPhone [Updated] MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 372 Jul 17, 2013 01:38 PM
Photos of 'Plastic Low-Cost iPhone' Likely an iPhone 5 in a Case MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 59 Jun 3, 2013 11:59 PM
Lower-Cost iPhone's Plastic Rear Shell Reportedly Surfaces MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 351 May 3, 2013 03:15 PM
Lower-Cost iPhone Said to Use 'Super-Thin' Plastic and Fiberglass Shell in 4-6 Colors MacRumors MacRumors.com News Discussion 170 Apr 4, 2013 10:44 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC