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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:26 PM   #126
WilliamLondon
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Originally Posted by FoxHoundADAM View Post
Seriously, no way Apple updates all three of their flagship devices in the same 2-3 month window. How will the bolster the financials the other 9 months for the investors?
Haven't you heard? They've moved to twice (or more) yearly updates for all the iOS products, motivated by the commodity manufacturers who make very little money off every crap product the manufacture and sell - evidently, Apple needs to act more like them to be considered "competitive." You didn't hear? I'd assumed Apple issued a press release the way people go on and on with such certainty about this massive business and product-level strategy shift.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:27 PM   #127
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I can't believe any analyst would suggest that Apple will ever produce a non-retina iPhone. There might be a cheaper iPhone. A new 3.5 inch iPhone that is slim like the 5 but takes advantage of better power consumption from new chips and better screen makes sense to me. It wouldn't create any additional fragmentation and I'm sure there is a market that wants its phones as small as possible.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:27 PM   #128
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yay...for the suckers who have iphone 5 and is planning to get iphone 5s....yay.
Go blow your lifesaving...yay.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:28 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by wolfpuppies3 View Post
This is exactly the sort of news that has all but killed current iPhone 5 sales and driven the value of Apple's stock way down. Pretty poor business plan. The ghost of Steve Jobs is rolling over somewhere.
Nothing's confirmed here; it's all conjecture at this point. We don't really know if iPhone 5 sales are down. We need to wait for the earnings call.

Wall Street is another story; I feel there is a lot of (baseless) manipulation going on..

Don't panic, yet.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:28 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by johndoejohndoes View Post
If there's no innovation this stock will continue to nose dive.

I love my Apple products but I'm hatting AAPL as a stock right now
Does the same apply to SamSung/Google stock? They seem to be better at taking other people's ideas as opposed to inventing their own products.

Eric Schmidt sat on Apple's board during iphone/iOS development and and then quit suddenly...so he could "invent" android OS and work with SamSung to "invent" android smart phones. If that isn't the definition of a "snake in the grass" I don't know what is. And of course Android/Google gets only good press while Apple is attacked daily by the media.

We appear to live in a world where the real "innovators" are the "bad guys" and the copy cats are the "good guys".

So where is the incentive to innovate if everyone keeps stealing your stuff and when you try to protect yourself, you are the "bad guy".....
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:30 PM   #131
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My opinion,

Apple doesn't want to shake the boat too hard and get the kind of repercussions that Microsoft is currently getting, or those that Nokia and RIM already took for "alienating the userbase"

Let's take a closer look at what the "other phones/devices" did
Nokia: All but completely abandoned Symbian, a perfectly fine OS, for what? Windows Phone
RIM: Delayed BBX, released half-baked tablet
Microsoft: Released Windows RT, Windows Phone, and few people bought. Their previous Windows Mobile platform was perfectly fine up till iOS came and sunk their ship.

iOS is rapidly replacing Nokia, RIM and Microsoft as the choice device for End users, Enterprise, and even as school tools. No Android device is doing this at all.

Android is replacing the lower-end devices, those that were primarily Nokia, HTC, Motorola, Samsung, LG, and all the other chinese throw-away phones. Overall this is a good thing, because users get used to "smartphones" and may switch to iOS if they really find having applications or the internet on their phone useful. But really... Android is for the soccer moms to check their facebook. Nobody who wants to make money will ever make their software exclusively for Android, those that do make Android ports, will just make it work on the Samsung device, and to hell with all the other devices.

In another 5 years time, the market will likely be only Apple (30%) and Samsung(60%) for mobile devices, assuming neither company makes a foolish mistake that results in platform abandonment. Samsung isn't shy about making disposable devices, where as Apple's devices last as long as the battery will. The average Apple device can be used for 7 years. This is not yet true of any Samsung device. Those I know who have Samsung or LG devices barely get 11 months out of the device.

On the Desktop and Laptop side, Apple has never been "the market leader" yet they are still growing Year over Year, at the expense of Dell. Go watch any television show on TV in the US. You will see Apple laptops, iMacs, and iPhones/iPads. These computing devices are fashion accessories, not just useful tools.

But I think Apple needs to come back to earth and focus on their core businesses (software) and the hardware that people buy. The Mac Pro was last updated? More like, hasn't been significantly updated since 2009. That is TOO LONG to go without a refresh. Likewise with the iMac, the last refresh before the current one was 3 years before.

If Apple continues down this road of not updating the desktops, they're not going to have any customers for which to buy the professional software either, and everyone will be forced to switch (back) to windows systems. But Windows 8 is flopping. So users will probably decide to dump their desktop/laptops entirely if it's possible, hence the iPad or some other future tablet device may replace all the entry-level desktops and laptops.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:30 PM   #132
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I'm still trying to decide on getting the $99 4S at BestBuy or wait for this new iPhone. My AT&T account has been contract free since May. I sold my Verizon 4S last week and cancelled my Verizon account so now I'm really missing my 4S.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:35 PM   #133
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So the current one has a processor clocked at 1.3Ghz Dual-Core. What do we think the 5S will be? 1.5Ghz dual-core?

Or maybe a Quad-core that Apple claims to have designed a revolutionary way for it to not eat much battery?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:38 PM   #134
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Lot of bologna here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post
You realize that earlier iPhones wouldn't work with that Thumb ad, right?

Original iPhone width: 61.0 mm (2.40 in) W
iPhone 5 width: 58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

This thumb ad was a lame one-off attempt to counter larger screens inevitable to enter the market that no manner of realistic height adjustment would make sense.

Instead of Apple scaling up to preserve the 4S height to width ratio:

115.2 mm (4.54 in) H
58.66 mm (2.309 in) W

Ivy and company chose:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H
58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

Keeping the original H/W ratios would have required [and they would have been hugely praised by larger screen lovers] the W in the iPhone 5 to be 2.477 W.
This brought the iPhone up to parity with the industry, which is almost exclusively 16:10 and 16:9 handsets.

Quote:
In fact, that would have provided a mor rugged feel in one's hand, very minimal weight difference to the 4S and provided an even greater screen size on the hypotenuse and overall surface area.
How does a phone being wider make it feel more rugged? In my opinion, rugged comes from the aesthetic and the feel of the materials.

Quote:
The first reaction I had with the iPhone 5 was it was too small in my hand. I have medium to large hands in gloves and the 5 felt too thin in it's thickness.
So your hand size and personal preference should drive device dimensions?

Quote:
And sure enough:

iPhone 4/4S 9.3 mm (0.37 in) D
iPhone 5 7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

The iPhone 11.6 mm (0.46 in) D
The iPhone 3G/3GS 12.3 mm (0.48 in) D

The sweet spot was the 4/4S with it's 9.3 mm Depth. They over refined it with the iPhone 5. They just had to be thinner for no apparent advantage other than to be thinner than Samsung.
Apple has been constantly making them thinner. They claimed the 4 was the world's thinnest smartphone when it released.

A thinner device will be inherently smaller with a case. A thinner device will help compensate for the longer length when it comes to thumb reach on smaller hands.

Quote:
IT'S TOO THIN. It gives a feeling of a fragile smartphone, whereas the 4/4s gave the feeling of a solidly built smartphone.
Feels sturdier to me by virtue of only having one glass side. I see no problem in rigidity with the aluminum unibody design.

Quote:
Move back to the 9.3 mm Depth and scale out the width appropriately thus requiring 2 hands for truly operating the texting area and only the using one hand via holding to talk or listen to the audio/and or watching a video and then people will feel they have purchased a solid product.
Personally, if it were any wider, I would no longer to be able to use it one handed like I do. I would have to reposition the device in my hand to adjust my thumb reach. I know others with smaller hands would have the same problem. That specifically is one of the reasons I like the current size.

Quote:
Throw in improved internal guts as expected, with a more durable glass and double the RAM along with the new CPU/GPGPU SoC, then all this media led propaganda will die down.
Why double the RAM? Just because? Can you detail a specific performance scenario where it's needed on the A6?

This isn't media propaganda. It's over-reaching expectations from entitled consumers.

Quote:
I don't know a soul who would complain about a 4S depth with a wider display and restored non edge-to-edge display if this depth includes a serious jump in battery life and system power opening up more services on the phone.
I would tolerate greater depth for more battery life, but not any more width. And the system power isn't going to change significantly as a result. So now you do know one.

Quote:
Steve spent years resolving the feel and dimensions and to throw that away to be a race to ultra thin is something only Ivy would have done.
Steve would have been intimately involved with the 5's design. The keynote contents were all controlled by him, and he made a point to mention the 4 was the thinnest phone. Oops, I guess he cared too.

Quote:
More to the point, the weight of the 4S was 140 grams. The weight of the 5 is 112 grams.

``Houston. We have a problem.''

It's too light, too thin and feels off in one's hand.
Not in my opinion. Feels great.

Quote:
Restore that weight with more depth, bigger battery, upgrades to the internals with double the RAM and Apple will dominate the industry.
Of course, it's been specs all along! No platform decisions or software features or variety of SKUs or price points. Just needs moar Gee-Bees!
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:48 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by currentinterest View Post
The iPhone 5 is the best selling smartphone in history. Further, it looks as though iPhones accounted for the vast majority of US sales this past holiday. The current design is beautiful, nothing else even close. I think Apple simply has to keep doing what they are doing. If there is an iPhone mini/nano, it will be a high quality smaller product (think iPad mini) at a lower no contract price, probably $329. Everyone will scream about it being too expensive and it will go on to dominate the market as did the iPad mini.
Good to see a voice of reason amidst all the rambling. Though, I don't expect that they would make the screen any smaller than 4", and I honestly wonder just how far they can drive the cost down while giving the hardware enough longevity to enjoy ongoing OS upgrades.

Actually, my guess is that this cheap iPhone will not be released. Apple doesn't usually pursue subpremium markets until they have reached complete saturation in the premium market (iPod, iPad). Still, who can really say with all that new leadership?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:48 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
So the current one has a processor clocked at 1.3Ghz Dual-Core. What do we think the 5S will be? 1.5Ghz dual-core?

Or maybe a Quad-core that Apple claims to have designed a revolutionary way for it to not eat much battery?
Maybe they will copy Samsung’s little/big quadcore approach for better battery?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:51 PM   #137
danielturk.j
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I dub thee "Nazi iPhone"

Dear Apple,
Please don't name the next gen iPhone the 5S....it will only bring an insane amount of scrutiny regarding the similarity between 5S and SS (Nazi). The phone name needs a rebranding anyways. Get your thinking caps on, and for the love of SJ, don't name it the 5S. You've been warned.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 03:57 PM   #138
Szarky
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Originally Posted by danielturk.j View Post
Dear Apple,
Please don't name the next gen iPhone the 5S....it will only bring an insane amount of scrutiny regarding the similarity between 5S and SS (Nazi). The phone name needs a rebranding anyways. Get your thinking caps on, and for the love of SJ, don't name it the 5S. You've been warned.
This is kind of funny but true. 5S looks odd when you look at the text. 6S just sounds funny like you're trying to say "success" which isn't a bad thing. What if the just ditched the whole "S" thing. People have started to expect only minor updates with the "S" refreshes anyway. From a marketing point, a new number sort of tricks people into thinking it's a brand new, difference device.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:11 PM   #139
mdriftmeyer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrmjenkins View Post
Lot of bologna here:



This brought the iPhone up to parity with the industry, which is almost exclusively 16:10 and 16:9 handsets.



How does a phone being wider make it feel more rugged? In my opinion, rugged comes from the aesthetic and the feel of the materials.



So your hand size and personal preference should drive device dimensions?



Apple has been constantly making them thinner. They claimed the 4 was the world's thinnest smartphone when it released.

A thinner device will be inherently smaller with a case. A thinner device will help compensate for the longer length when it comes to thumb reach on smaller hands.



Feels sturdier to me by virtue of only having one glass side. I see no problem in rigidity with the aluminum unibody design.



Personally, if it were any wider, I would no longer to be able to use it one handed like I do. I would have to reposition the device in my hand to adjust my thumb reach. I know others with smaller hands would have the same problem. That specifically is one of the reasons I like the current size.



Why double the RAM? Just because? Can you detail a specific performance scenario where it's needed on the A6?

This isn't media propaganda. It's over-reaching expectations from entitled consumers.



I would tolerate greater depth for more battery life, but not any more width. And the system power isn't going to change significantly as a result. So now you do know one.



Steve would have been intimately involved with the 5's design. The keynote contents were all controlled by him, and he made a point to mention the 4 was the thinnest phone. Oops, I guess he cared too.



Not in my opinion. Feels great.



Of course, it's been specs all along! No platform decisions or software features or variety of SKUs or price points. Just needs moar Gee-Bees!
I'm not arguing the platform. I'm a NeXT/Apple Engineer alum. I'm arguing the Industrial Design post Steve.

With respect to the iPhone 5 being the biggest seller, that has more to do with expanded markets than its being a superior product to its previous brethren, specifically the 4 series.

Each release of the iPhone has been the most successful smartphone product model in this short history of smartphones.

I expect the iPhone next version to eclipse the 5 but hopefully not just because an additional 1 billion new potential customers in the Far East make it so and more to do with it eating sales from Samsung and other Android vendors.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:17 PM   #140
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I will be buying one simply because my eligibility will appear in May. Whatever they offer will probably be a good enough upgrade for me.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:18 PM   #141
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I guess the rounded rectangle device market is saturated?
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:18 PM   #142
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If this turns out to be true, as a user, I don't really need the latest model. As a developer, though, I like to test my stuff on the available hardware... ...and this would be tough to follow (well... tough for my wallet).
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:23 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Many of us refuse to be shacked to that boat anchor... known as the 17" MBP.
You're missing an important aspect of this. If Apple discontinues the 17", which they did, many professionals who utilized that form factor are shackled to HAVING to use a 15" laptop when they NEED to upgrade their machines and Apple does not offer a 17" option. If they DO offer a 17", how are you SHACKLED to that model? Nobody forces you to buy that over the 15" model, which they would obviously still make.

Your logic is tragically flawed my friend...
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:28 PM   #144
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I doubt it - not only would a 4.8 inch display be ridiculous looking and ridiculously awkward to use, but it would completely contradict apple's "thumbs" ad campaign.

I also find it very irritating how, for example, Samsung advertise their Galaxy S III screen to be "true hd" and using it as an excuse to slam apple, completely ignoring the fact that the iPhone's retina display in ppi is superior.
Agree. However, some folks don't seem to understand. They see more lines of display and that's what makes them think the S3 has a better display.

Re the 5S: que the people saying, "well, the 5S is really the iPhone 4"
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:31 PM   #145
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The original reports from Nikkei and The Wall Street Journal for their claims that Apple was planning to build 65 million iPhones this quarter before slashing its orders, an unrealistically high number considering expectations for sales in the range of 50 million units in the holiday quarter that coincided with the device's launch in most markets.
Could anyone else follow that at ALL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack97 View Post
I doubt it - not only would a 4.8 inch display be ridiculous looking and ridiculously awkward to use, but it would completely contradict apple's "thumbs" ad campaign.
Apple has always made claims about how the way they've made something is "the best," and "proven" etc, to later contradict themselves a year or two later. This is typical.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:34 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by simplemind View Post

I would not consider the iPhone 5 a new design. For a new design, to me, it would need to be the 4 compared to a 3g(s), that's a new design. It's the same stagnent, long in the tooth design going on 3 years now. I get they want to maximize the R&D dollars for the unibody phone, but "Thiner and lighter" does not automatically get the jaw dropping response it once did.
True... once Apple reached the "black rectangle" there's not much else they can do. They love their minimalist designs and will stick to them.

I guess what I meant was the iPhone 5 was a new body... instead of the iPhone 4 and 4S sharing the same body for over 2 years.

Anyway... the addition of LTE, a 16:9 screen, and the other upgrades made, in my opinion, the jump from the 4S to the 5 greater than from the 4 to the 4S.

That doesn't mean everybody with a 4S will immediately run out and get a 5. You can say that about any phone, though. Did everyone with a Galaxy SII rush to get an SIII?

But... every day there are always plenty of people who are ready to upgrade or buy a new phone.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:38 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by NewAnger View Post
I'm still trying to decide on getting the $99 4S at BestBuy or wait for this new iPhone. My AT&T account has been contract free since May. I sold my Verizon 4S last week and cancelled my Verizon account so now I'm really missing my 4S.
craigslist? You could then stay out of contract so you can decide when the next phone is released if it's what you want before locking yourself in for 2 years on an out of date iphone. I like my 4s right now but would not get another at this point in time. I will decide come June if i want another iphone or switch to a galaxy s, or just stick to my 4s longer
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:44 PM   #148
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i dont care about LTE but not having a Retina would be a deal breaker for me.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:44 PM   #149
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craigslist? You could then stay out of contract so you can decide when the next phone is released if it's what you want before locking yourself in for 2 years on an out of date iphone. I like my 4s right now but would not get another at this point in time. I will decide come June if i want another iphone or switch to a galaxy s, or just stick to my 4s longer
Every time I contact someone on CL about a 4S, it's a scam telling me to go to some site and bid. Everyone else wants $250-350 for a 4S.
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Old Jan 15, 2013, 04:53 PM   #150
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We appear to live in a world where the real "innovators" are the "bad guys" and the copy cats are the "good guys"..
Steve Jobs: Good artists copy great artists steal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW0DUg63lqU

Steve Jobs was shameless with stealing ideas.
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