Apple and Amazon Ordered to Enter Settlement Talks Over 'App Store' Trademark Issue

[samcraig]

Originally Posted by henrystar

Next somebody will try to claim ownership of ordinary words, such as windows!

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1518439

Please read before posting again

[Popeye206]

Originally Posted by samcraig

You don't have to be an expert to know that this issue has nothing to do with who coined the phrase APP

It's irrelevant despite many many MANY people trying to argue otherwise.

Reading comprehension is apparently over-rated.

----------



I guess you never owned/used Palm Pilots.

It's cool.

PS - this has nothing to do with who made APP popular. How many times does that have to be stated

Correct... and trademarks are not patents. Prior art has little to do with it if the term being trademarked is not active or being defended in commerce. If you don't use it, or defend it, you can loose your trademark.

From a marketing stand point, I can see why Apple is trying to keep this trademark. If they can make "Apps" or "AppStore" only be associated with Apple, then that's a big win from a marketing standpoint.

[rmwebs]

Originally Posted by alexgowers

I disagree the term 'appstore' is not generic at all.

It was almost never been used before apple decided to call it's programs for it's phones apps. There were many software stores online and many didn't shorten applications to apps at all! I mean come on just because it's simple doesn't mean there aren't other names, every other company has thought of something original to call their outlets with no issues.

I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying, now whether that is illegal is a whole different debate and that is presumably what the court wants answered. I think it's fine for amazon to call their store whatever they want but they have to admit they are copying to get customers in the door. Sadly for amazon their name is not synonymous with quality and I think apple feels they are misleading the public into believing they will get an apple like experience.

I also have to say apples app stores are still lacking after an initial revelation the usability hasn't improved and needs a massive rethink.

Why do we always get a post like this in these threads? Full of completely misinformed nonsense.

The term 'AppStore' has been in use as far back as the mid 1980's in computing. It had a 'lul' in the late 90's where it wasn't used quite as much (but was still used).

Sure, Apple popularised the term - does that given them any right own it? No.

Just because a select few people have this delusion that Apple created the term that doesn't mean they have any rights to restrict others using it.

[samcraig]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Or Apple. Which there is nothing wrong with as long as you don't sell panes of glasses or fruits that fall from a tree. Then we run into the same issue we have here : "Descriptive".

There is nothing wrong with trademarking dictionary words in certain fields. There are different rules when it comes to descriptive terms however.

So bringing things up like Trademarks for Amazon or Apple or Windows is completely irrelevant, like bringing up "Application" vs "Program" or thinking Apple popularised "Application" and "App" when they obviously didn't.

Deja Vous. Multiple Facepalms.

[MonkeySee....]

Originally Posted by alexgowers

I disagree the term 'appstore' is not generic at all.

It was almost never been used before apple decided to call it's programs for it's phones apps. There were many software stores online and many didn't shorten applications to apps at all! I mean come on just because it's simple doesn't mean there aren't other names, every other company has thought of something original to call their outlets with no issues.

I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying, now whether that is illegal is a whole different debate and that is presumably what the court wants answered. I think it's fine for amazon to call their store whatever they want but they have to admit they are copying to get customers in the door. Sadly for amazon their name is not synonymous with quality and I think apple feels they are misleading the public into believing they will get an apple like experience.

I also have to say apples app stores are still lacking after an initial revelation the usability hasn't improved and needs a massive rethink.

The thread should be closed after this post. Unfortunately it will be followed by dross.

[kitsap2]

Originally Posted by Mr. Gates

First of all, this little myth you are repeating has been circulated for a while now and its just not true. There are various examples of BOTH companies using BOTH terms throughout the past 30 years.

Second, neither company invented these words. They have been around hundreds of years and are just now being used in terms of computers.

Third, you can't trademark an abbreviation.

Get real

Dear MrGates

I'm real. I was just having some fun.

Now take a deep breath and relax.

[Rodimus Prime]

Amazon can pretty tell Apple F U and tell them to drop it. I expect if Apple keeps pushing the case the result will be for Apple to pay all of Amazon legal fees in this.

At this point Apple base solution is to drop the case and walk away.

[turtlez]

Originally Posted by alexgowers

I disagree the term 'appstore' is not generic at all.

It was almost never been used before apple decided to call it's programs for it's phones apps. There were many software stores online and many didn't shorten applications to apps at all! I mean come on just because it's simple doesn't mean there aren't other names, every other company has thought of something original to call their outlets with no issues.

I mean they could have called it appshop, softstore or any number of variations on a theme. Amazon are guilty of copying, now whether that is illegal is a whole different debate and that is presumably what the court wants answered. I think it's fine for amazon to call their store whatever they want but they have to admit they are copying to get customers in the door. Sadly for amazon their name is not synonymous with quality and I think apple feels they are misleading the public into believing they will get an apple like experience.

I also have to say apples app stores are still lacking after an initial revelation the usability hasn't improved and needs a massive rethink.

I agree with you on everything except Amazon not being of great quality. I have ordered a lot of things from amazon all the way to Australia and they have all turned up before or on the expected date (unlike Apple and their iMac issue haha) and very well packed for good prices. Apple invented the popularity for the term App, they should have a right to use it.

I always think it would be cool to be able to have a look at a parallel world and make Apple on world 1 invent something and then Apple on world 2 not invent it and just see how vastly different the competitors would be. I would put my money on Appstore not being used if Apple didn't start calling it that. I would put my money on mp3 players still being generic and no cool factor to them if Apple did not invent the iPod. I would put my money on ugly laptops and fingertip phones if Apple had not invented the aluminium laptops and iPhone.

I agree on the different names they could use. They invented their company name, why can't they invent a store name.

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Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

Amazon can pretty tell Apple F U and tell them to drop it. I expect if Apple keeps pushing the case the result will be for Apple to pay all of Amazon legal fees in this.

At this point Apple base solution is to drop the case and walk away.

They got the money and even if they don't win they still hinder other companies going for the term Appstore through fear. No one wants to be dragged through the court, especially not smaller companies.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

Amazon can pretty tell Apple F U and tell them to drop it. I expect if Apple keeps pushing the case the result will be for Apple to pay all of Amazon legal fees in this.

At this point Apple base solution is to drop the case and walk away.

Until the USPTO rules on the actual validity of the trademark in regards to both Microsoft and Amazon's opposition to it, Amazon still has to enter good faith negotiations (their position could be to ask for a stay on the infringement claims until the USPTO has ruled).

[samcraig]

Originally Posted by turtlez

Apple invented the popularity for the term App, they should have a right to use it.


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No one is preventing Apple from using the term App. Nor App Store. And this issue isn't about the word App.

::headdesk::

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by Popeye206

Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it.

From the other thread...



I believe that's a Palm Treo. So it's been around for at least a little while.

Apple wasn't the first to use the term "App Store", and didn't coin the term "apps". Just because it became more commonly used after they released their app store in '08 doesn't give them the right to it.

[turtlez]

Originally Posted by samcraig

No one is preventing Apple from using the term App. Nor App Store. And this issue isn't about the word App.

::headdesk::

Wow I would have seriously thought anyone reading this thread would have got what I meant. I am very sorry for your head on the desk.

Incase you got amnesia, I will update you.

I mean AppStore and I mean Apple have the right to own it.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

Until the USPTO rules on the actual validity of the trademark in regards to both Microsoft and Amazon's opposition to it, Amazon still has to enter good faith negotiations (their position could be to ask for a stay on the infringement claims until the USPTO has ruled).

And I could easily see Amazon refusing to give at all to anything but a stay.

From my under standing more and more signs are pointing to the USPTO ruling against Apple.

Besides Apple is going to have to win multiple cases. Even if they win the USPTO ruling they now have to win in court and amazon only has to win one.

[Graeme43]

Originally Posted by Popeye206

Hummm.... sure... I remember the word "App" before 2008 being used here and there in the industry, but the term "AppStore" was unique to my knowledge when Apple came out with the AppStore. Sure, it's common now because everyone loved it and started using it, but does not mean Apple does not have a right to try and defend it.

But trademarks and patents seem to be worthless anymore. No company seems to respect either unless their forced to by the courts.

Windows users have called their apps "programs" and its built into windows like program files..."

Mac OS X has used .app since it was launched and in a folder called applications...

Now Apple is popular... everyone wants a bit even though Apple has used app for like 13 years

[Renzatic]

Originally Posted by Graeme43

Windows users have called their apps "programs" and its built into windows like program files..."

Mac OS X has used .app since it was launched and in a folder called applications...

Now Apple is popular... everyone wants a bit even though Apple has used app for like 13 years

AND HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF!

...hell, I'm not even gonna bother.

[fiddlestyx]

Originally Posted by DipDog3

Sorry, but yes, "App Store" is generic. You can't trademark it.

I don't think anyone gets confused, they know you go to the app store to get apps regardless of what device it is on.

Completely agree with this. If Amazon was calling their app store the "Apple App Store" I could see issue with it, but "App Store" is quite generic.

[MH01]

Originally Posted by LagunaSol

I don't know where you buy gas, but I never see the words "Gas Station" on a gas station's sign. So it's not confusing...because it's not actually there.

And yet your know what a gas station is right???

I suspect your not looking hard enough
http://www.bp.com/productslistsearch...tentId=7013632

[rmwebs]

With regards to those claiming Apple coined the term 'App'.

The term 'App' has been used for years.

Now I've got your attention. This below is a screenshot from RISC OS 3.1.1. It was released in 1991. I used it at school on an Acorn computer. Notice what that folder is called? And that icon on the bottom bar?



It should also be noted that RISC OS used the term App in v2.0 which was released in 1989 (and possibly earlier versions of 'Arther') however I couldn't grab a screenshot.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by Graeme43

Windows users have called their apps "programs" and its built into windows like program files..."

Mac OS X has used .app since it was launched and in a folder called applications...

Now Apple is popular... everyone wants a bit even though Apple has used app for like 13 years

Care to participate in my homework too ?

Originally Posted by KnightWRX

You seem very knowledgeable and intelligent. Can you do me a favor ? I'm illeterate and have some homework that needs doing. Can you tell me how many times the word "Application" shows up on this picture vs how many times the word "Program" does ?



It would be very appreciated if you could, simply click the image to zoom in.

[D.T.]

Originally Posted by samcraig

I think I'm bowing out of this thread now though. It's already a retread of the other friend with people continuing their reconstructed version of history.

Yeah, probably a good idea.

Originally Posted by samcraig

That's hardware not in reference to the store. I see your point. But irrelevant to this, no?.

Originally Posted by samcraig

does not matter. Irrelevant.

Originally Posted by samcraig

It doesn't matter who popularized the word App. It's irrelevant. The only thing that matters is App Store. Not App. Not Store.

Originally Posted by samcraig

You don't have to be an expert to know that this issue has nothing to do with who coined the phrase APP

Originally Posted by samcraig

Ok - let's go with App Store (not App) as being trademarked by Apple.

Originally Posted by samcraig

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1518439

Please read before posting again

Originally Posted by samcraig

Deja Vous. Multiple Facepalms.

Originally Posted by samcraig

No one is preventing Apple from using the term App. Nor App Store. And this issue isn't about the word App.

::headdesk::

... or not

( I feel your frustration ... )

[rmwebs]

Originally Posted by Graeme43

Windows users have called their apps "programs" and its built into windows like program files..."

Mac OS X has used .app since it was launched and in a folder called applications...

Now Apple is popular... everyone wants a bit even though Apple has used app for like 13 years

See my last post. It basically disproves the complete crap you just posted:

Originally Posted by rmwebs

With regards to those claiming Apple coined the term 'App'.

The term 'App' has been used for years.

Now I've got your attention. This below is a screenshot from RISC OS 3.1.1. It was released in 1991. I used it at school on an Acorn computer. Notice what that folder is called? And that icon on the bottom bar?

Image

It should also be noted that RISC OS used the term App in v2.0 which was released in 1989 (and possibly earlier versions of 'Arther') however I couldn't grab a screenshot.

So. 1989. Thats...24 years ago.

Happy now?

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by rmwebs

With regards to those claiming Apple coined the term 'App'.

The term 'App' has been used for years.

And Application was in use before Apple even existed :



A book from the 60s!!

[samcraig]

Originally Posted by D.T.

Yeah, probably a good idea.

... or not

( I feel your frustration ... )

Sucker for punishment

And yet people still think this is about who coined/made popular the word APP.

[KnightWRX]

Originally Posted by samcraig

Sucker for punishment

And yet people still think this is about who coined/made popular the word APP.

Even if it were, it's quite disputed that Apple are the ones, seeing all the stuff we've dugged up to disprove that completely irrelevant argument.

[jonnysods]

I say generic.