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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:18 PM   #101
rmwebs
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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
The issue is that Apple should not have been granted the trademark for "App Store" in the first place.
Correct. You'll probably find that when they loose the case it'll become a reserved term to prevent anyone doing it again.

This is what happens when the trademark office doesn't research correctly. Trademarks are all well and good but I bet a fair few of them should never have been issued.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:18 PM   #102
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Normally, I'm not a fan of trademarking everything under the sun, but looking at this objectively, Apple singlehandedly made "app" into a household word. "App Store" is synonymous with Apple, and has been for the beginning. I don't see Amazon's case here. It would be like Kinkos advertising their own "Xerox" service, or Yahoo saying that they are the best search engine at "Googling". A trademark is not invalidated just because it becomes common lexicon.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:18 PM   #103
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I don't understand why the judge is ordering both parties to settle. They were unable to settle, which is why they are in court. Is the judge skittish about making a decision here?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:19 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Key View Post
I am no trademark expert, but if it certainly were not able to be trademarked, would it be listed on Apple's page listing their trademarks?

http://www.apple.com/legal/trademark/appletmlist.html
From that page :

Quote:
Multi-Touch touchscreen interface
Now read this :

Apple rejected over "multi-touch" trademark application
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:19 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Apple Key View Post
The general public aren't computer experts. A lot of people just google what they are looking for. Someone could be taken to Amazon's app store instead in that case. It was just one example.
Ok. So they go to Amazon's store and can't find it/can't install it. You assume they give up and don't TRY the Apple store? Ok.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:20 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
That's hardware not in reference to the store. I see your point. But irrelevant to this, no?
No it is not irrelevant - people are idiots. I wasn't making a point about app stores or hardware, just consumers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Even if they were confused as hell about which device they own - they can only buy from one store.
Well by that logic then yes, Apple was damaged. They went to purchase an iPhone but didn't know enough to realize they got something different - and now can't use the Apple app store either.

Now that I think about it I should ask him if he has used iTunes yet.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:21 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Who used the term "app store" before Apple?
Off the top of my head :

- Palm, as seen on a screenshot posted twice in this very thread and tons in other threads.
- SAGE Networks, who held the trademark earlier this decade, albeit for a software licensing program rather than an actual Store that sells Applications.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:21 PM   #108
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Sure "app store" is common today - but who made that common? When the trademark application was submitted, nobody else had an app store, Apple was the only one calling it that. It's a false argument to say that it's commonly used - it was not at the time the trademark was filed. What is common today was made common by Apple. Just because everyone uses the term TODAY does not invalidate the trademark that was granted before this term was ubiquitous in any way, shape or form.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:21 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Ok. So they go to Amazon's store and can't find it/can't install it. You assume they give up and don't TRY the Apple store? Ok.
People have short attention spans. If they can't get it now, they often forget about it.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:22 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Sure "app store" is common today - but who made that common? When the trademark application was submitted, nobody else had an app store, Apple was the only one calling it that. It's a false argument to say that it's commonly used - it was not at the time the trademark was filed. What is common today was made common by Apple. Just because everyone uses the term TODAY does not invalidate the trademark that was granted before this term was ubiquitous in any way, shape or form.
Who told you the prerequisites for a trademark and what makes/keeps them valid?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:24 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Sure "app store" is common today - but who made that common? When the trademark application was submitted, nobody else had an app store, Apple was the only one calling it that. It's a false argument to say that it's commonly used - it was not at the time the trademark was filed. What is common today was made common by Apple. Just because everyone uses the term TODAY does not invalidate the trademark that was granted before this term was ubiquitous in any way, shape or form.
I have a picture of the Palm App Store on the Treo on page 3, and Samcraig replied to your initial post with that exact same picture.

Are you just ignoring us so you can say "no one else had an app store" over and over again?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:24 PM   #112
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:24 PM   #113
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The problem is that it's becoming genericized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...zed_trademarks
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:24 PM   #114
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I'm sure they could have come up with better names. But Apple could not have called theirs the Apple Store. Then they would be confusing their own customers.
Those same customers who buy a Galaxy Tab thinking it is an iPad? Or the ones buying a Galxy S2 thinking it is an iPhone?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:25 PM   #115
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I think I'm going to start an online shopping site and call it 'Amazon'.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:25 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Sure "app store" is common today - but who made that common? When the trademark application was submitted, nobody else had an app store, Apple was the only one calling it that. It's a false argument to say that it's commonly used - it was not at the time the trademark was filed. What is common today was made common by Apple. Just because everyone uses the term TODAY does not invalidate the trademark that was granted before this term was ubiquitous in any way, shape or form.
Do you not read any answers at all before answering? The term "App" has been around for decades, and is common. Adding store makes it a descriptive term, that can't be trademarked. For example Palm has used the term App Store 10+ years ago.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:25 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Apple Key View Post
People have short attention spans. If they can't get it now, they often forget about it.
You're seriously going to keep going with this scenario?

Ok. Sure. If I wanted and app that I saw on TV or someone told me about - I would just give up if I accidentally googled the wrong web page. I know whenever I am looking for information and I click on a link that doesn't give me the information I need - I immediately give up because if it's not there in that first link - who cares.

On second thought - your scenario explains the reason why people on this forum ask the same questions over and over or spread the same FUD that has been debunked over and over. Often in the very thread (and PAGE!) that they are posting on.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:25 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Those same customers who buy a Galaxy Tab thinking it is an iPad? Or the ones buying a Galxy S2 thinking it is an iPhone?
Has that ever actually happened?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:25 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Who told you the prerequisites for a trademark and what makes/keeps them valid?
Who made you a trademark attorney?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Key View Post
The problem is that it's becoming genericized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...zed_trademarks
No, that's the complete opposite of the problem and issue being discussed. "App Store" is not a made up word that people are not using as a descriptive term, like Kleenex to actually mean tissue or Hoover to mean vaccum cleaner.

It's that App Store is a descriptive term that Apple is trying to tie to their own store that sells apps.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post
Sorry, but yes, "App Store" is generic. You can't trademark it.

I don't think anyone gets confused, they know you go to the app store to get apps regardless of what device it is on.
I agree. It's utterly ridiculous the lengths Apple will go to in order to try and get some marketing advantage and yet they'll kick themselves in the foot left and right when it comes to doing things like ignoring USB 3.0 for so long or replacing better quality GPU in the Mac Mini with Intel Integrated (step backwards in that department).

OTOH, you have to look at Lucasfilm and their "Droid" trademark. I'd argue that "Droid" is just shortening the word Android like Christian to Chris, but that didn't stop Verizon and Motorola from paying Lucasfilm to use "Droid" in their phones.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by slffl View Post
I think I'm going to start an online shopping site and call it 'Amazon'.
Go ahead. You realize there's a difference between what you want to do and what is being discussed here? Or do you not?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #123
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I think I'm going to start an online shopping site and call it 'Amazon'.
You can't do it. There's already a river called Amazon in, like...I dunno...Mexico or somewhere.

It'll just confuse all those people with boats.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Officially, I think they're called the iTunes App Store in Apple's case, and the Amazon Appstore in...yeah.

Personally, I would've gone with Fantastic Amazing Program Online Internet Megamart. FAPOIM for short.
Quikymart is going to sue you so bad...
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:26 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Those same customers who buy a Galaxy Tab thinking it is an iPad? Or the ones buying a Galxy S2 thinking it is an iPhone?
There definitely is confusion there. I agree.

All I was saying is that they can't call it the Apple Store because people would confuse it with the retail stores.
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