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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:27 PM   #126
KnightWRX
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Sure "app store" is common today - but who made that common? When the trademark application was submitted, nobody else had an app store, Apple was the only one calling it that.
Please, pretty please, stop rehashing arguments that have been debunked ad nauseum. Just click back one page or 2 and look at the pretty pictures, no need to even read the words.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:27 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
Do you not read any answers at all before answering? The term "App" has been around for decades, and is common. Adding store makes it a descriptive term, that can't be trademarked. For example Palm has used the term App Store 10+ years ago.
Palm may have used the term, but they did not file a trademark to protect it. Apple did. Can you answer me then why is Facebook allowed to be trademarked? Faces and books are everywhere, and one can combine faces into a book which would make it a "face book"... Facebook did not invent "face books", did they?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:28 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
What difference does it make? You can't install an Android App on an iPhone and vice versa.

And I know this isn't the issue - but what revenue is Apple losing if another vendor has an app store. None.
Imagine someone that's just looking into smartphones for the first time. Non-tech savvy, can't tell the difference between an iphone vs an andriod. Sees the Amazon App Store, and the name App Store sounds familiar to them. That connection instantly creates a trust in her mind, due to the popularity of the name - they know they've heard good things about it, and is trust worthy. They want to buy something that's reputable. Starts looking into Amazon App Store, and found an Android phone they liked. Apple just lost a customer due a name recognition that is being used by another company.

Could be a very likely scenario.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:28 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Has that ever actually happened?
Probably about as likely as someone running out to buy a Kindle for the Amazon AppStore thinking they can pick up the latest Garageband or Punchquest on it.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:28 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Please, pretty please, stop rehashing arguments that have been debunked ad nauseum. Just click back one page or 2 and look at the pretty pictures, no need to even read the words.
I should stop questioning you because you don't like my questions? Shove off! LOL
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:29 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Who made you a trademark attorney?
Really? You don't need to be a trademark attorney to know that your thoughts on the basis of a trademark is incorrect. So I was asking you what led you to that belief. Did you read that somewhere? Are you making it up?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:29 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Apple Key View Post
There definitely is confusion there. I agree.

But imagine hearing "you can find it on the Apple Store" in a commercial on TV. Then someone go to their local retail Apple Store and demands Angry Birds.
You guys know that even if Apple doesn't hold a trademark on "App Store", they can still call it... "App Store".

I know, hard concept to grasp, but not owning a trademark on a term doesn't prevent you from using it in Trade, as long as no one else has a trademark on it.

And they could have simply kept calling it "iTunes App Store" or "Apple App Store" or they could rename it "iOS App Store" and get a trademark on that.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
Palm may have used the term, but they did not file a trademark to protect it. Apple did. Can you answer me then why is Facebook allowed to be trademarked? Faces and books are everywhere, and one can combine faces into a book which would make it a "face book"... Facebook did not invent "face books", did they?
Facebook is not a book of faces. Nor do they sell books of faces.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Probably about as likely as someone running out to buy a Kindle for the Amazon AppStore thinking they can pick up the latest Garageband or Punchquest on it.
My mom, who is in her 60s, does not know the difference between a Galaxy Tab, Kindle Fire, or iPad. She would be very easily confused.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by a.gomez View Post
Yeah... I hate every time I go to a "Gas Station" and I find out it is not Exxon... I know it says BP on the sign but the Gas Station is there - so confusing.
Interesting. So you think "Gas Station" is generic. Which I would agree with. On the other hand, I have never heard a gas station being called "GasStore", so if one of the fuel companies called there gas stations "GasStore" then they should be able to get a trademark on it. So if Exxon called their gas stations "GasStore" and five years from now that word is in everyone's mind (which is the idea), then BP would of course want to use the name as well and everyone would claim it is generic.

Same with AppStore. Nobody used the word AppStore before Apple did. The words App and Store were used, just as Gas and Store are being used, but nobody used the combination AppStore.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
I should stop questioning you because you don't like my questions? Shove off! LOL
No, you should stop questionning things that have been proven wrong with facts/sources as a basis, which have been conveniently provided for you.

That is unless you have evidence that the facts and sources presented are to be questionned, which you have no offered. We posted a screenshot of a Palm device with APP STORE plainly sitting there amongst the icons.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:31 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Really? You don't need to be a trademark attorney to know that your thoughts on the basis of a trademark is incorrect. So I was asking you what led you to that belief. Did you read that somewhere? Are you making it up?
You're questioning my ability to judge the validity of a trademark as if you possess any knowledge about the same. You do not.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:32 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Same with AppStore. Nobody used the word AppStore before Apple did.
Wow someone else who doesn't look at SCREENSHOTS.

Please people, respect other posters by at least reading the thread before posting non-sense that's been debunked.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:32 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by TheHateMachine View Post
Probably about as likely as someone running out to buy a Kindle for the Amazon AppStore thinking they can pick up the latest Garageband or Punchquest on it.
Yeah. Most of these "customer confusion" arguments hinge on assuming 99.9% of the general population are complete idiots.

While I'm sure it happens sometimes, I doubt it's anywhere close to being a regular occurrence.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:32 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Interesting. So you think "Gas Station" is generic. Which I would agree with. On the other hand, I have never heard a gas station being called "GasStore", so if one of the fuel companies called there gas stations "GasStore" then they should be able to get a trademark on it. So if Exxon called their gas stations "GasStore" and five years from now that word is in everyone's mind (which is the idea), then BP would of course want to use the name as well and everyone would claim it is generic.

Same with AppStore. Nobody used the word AppStore before Apple did. The words App and Store were used, just as Gas and Store are being used, but nobody used the combination AppStore.
AppStore is what Amazon uses. Apple uses App Store.

So... point?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:33 PM   #141
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Time to go back to calling software PROGRAMS. Who you calling a program, Program?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:34 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
You're questioning my ability to judge the validity of a trademark as if you possess any knowledge about the same. You do not.
So why the hell are we arguing about it then? None of us are officially qualified. Might as well shut down the forums and play a game of battleship on Facebook or something.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:34 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by Marcus-k View Post
Do you not read any answers at all before answering? The term "App" has been around for decades, and is common. Adding store makes it a descriptive term, that can't be trademarked. For example Palm has used the term App Store 10+ years ago.
I googled for "Palm App Store" and found the headline "Palm launches an App Store" and the text "16 Dec 2008 Palm App Store Palm has taken a cue from Apple and launched a dedicated store for PalmOS and Windows Mobile applications. Sure, there ..."

16th December 2008. That's just above four years.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:34 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by DipDog3 View Post
Sorry, but yes, "App Store" is generic. You can't trademark it.

I don't think anyone gets confused, they know you go to the app store to get apps regardless of what device it is on.
App Store is surely generic:
http://obamapacman.com/2011/01/analy...to-fool-uspto/

So generic, other companies didn't think to use it before Apple made it big.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:34 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post

I have a picture of the Palm App Store on the Treo on page 3, and Samcraig replied to your initial post with that exact same picture.

Are you just ignoring us so you can say "no one else had an app store" over and over again?
Is the issue that there were app stores before Apple?

Or is it that no one else trademarked the phrase "App Store" before Apple?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:37 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
No, you should stop questionning things that have been proven wrong with facts/sources as a basis, which have been conveniently provided for you.

That is unless you have evidence that the facts and sources presented are to be questionned, which you have no offered. We posted a screenshot of a Palm device with APP STORE plainly sitting there amongst the icons.
Yes, and just because Palm called it an "App Store" does not invalidate Apple's ability to trademark the term. Failure to trade mark something does not invalidate someone else's ability to trademark the same or similar term down the road. The fruits go to the one who actually filed the papers.

Amazon is not arguing that it was used before, Amazon is arguing that its common. Yes, it's common now... but was not common a few years ago. Palm should have trademarked the term - too bad for them.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
So why the hell are we arguing about it then? None of us are officially qualified. Might as well shut down the forums and play a game of battleship on Facebook or something.
I agree, good idea.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Wow someone else who doesn't look at SCREENSHOTS.

Please people, respect other posters by at least reading the thread before posting non-sense that's been debunked.
You are taking this screen shot thing quite personally... screen shots that are not even authenticated LOL
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:38 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
You're questioning my ability to judge the validity of a trademark as if you possess any knowledge about the same. You do not.
To be fair - you have now idea what knowledge I possess or not. And the burden of proof is on you. I asked a simple question. The comments you made about trademarks - is that something you researched or read somewhere. Or did you make it up. It's ok if you made it up. In fact, I'd respect you more for admitting so. I think your thoughts are quite common.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
You are taking this screen shot thing quite personally... screen shots that are not even authenticated LOL
Now you're going to try and assert that the screenshots are somehow fake?
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:41 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by Consultant View Post
App Store is surely generic:
http://obamapacman.com/2011/01/analy...to-fool-uspto/

So generic, other companies didn't think to use it before Apple made it big.
Anyone who quotes Obama Pacman as a valid source of information should be backhanded off the internet.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:41 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
Is the issue that there were app stores before Apple?

Or is it that no one else trademarked the phrase "App Store" before Apple?
SAGE network in 2002.

But no, the ISSUE is not about who came first or what, it's about App Store being DESCRIPTIVE.
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Old Jan 16, 2013, 12:41 PM   #150
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To be fair - you have now idea what knowledge I possess or not. And the burden of proof is on you. I asked a simple question. The comments you made about trademarks - is that something you researched or read somewhere. Or did you make it up. It's ok if you made it up. In fact, I'd respect you more for admitting so. I think your thoughts are quite common.
I owned and ran a marketing firm in Seattle for a few years, and we filed several trademarks for our clients as well as ourselves. Prior use applies to patents, not trademarks. Someone can use a term all they want and advertise it all they want, but if it is not already trademarked anyone can file a trademark on a term used by someone else. You may be confusing patent rules with trademark rules.
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