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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:02 PM   #26
JarScott
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Even with refurbished rMBPs you still compromise specs because of cost.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:02 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Leave the Spin to Apple PR. You don't have an explanation for the price either and you're not paid by Apple to spin their greed in this (the pricing is the reason I went with the 15" rMBP instead of the 13").
Did you consider that perhaps you rewarded Apple's "greed" by stepping up to a more expensive machine? Just because you don't like an explanation doesn't mean it is "spin." Apple charged more because they could. It isn't as if there is a constitutional "right" to buy a 13" rMBP for $1499 just because that's the same price relative to the 13" cMBP as the 15" rMBP is to the 15" cMBP.

Anyway, the point of this thread is that there is a cheaper option for those who want to save on a 13" rMBP.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:03 PM   #28
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15" too - including some with 16GB of ram

http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC975LL/A
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FC976LL/A
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0...retina-display
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0ML1LL/A
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:04 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I knew you would.

Again, all your spin is worthless in light of the 15" rMBP's pricing. That's what people are basing themselves on when they claim the 13" rMBP should be 1499$. Because by all logic that went into pricing the 15", it should be 1499$. Anything else you come up with is pro-Apple spin, and frankly, should be left as a job for Apple employees, not consumers (consumers should never try to justify higher prices).
Unless, of course, said "customer" is a plant from the company. Is Apple above that? I can't say I ever recall them doing that, but who knows; maybe that's something they can still actually keep secret for years on end.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:06 PM   #30
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I'm holding out until the updates, if Apple do discontinue the classic MacBook Pro line I would assume the price on the retina models would decrease.
I really hope so.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Did you consider that perhaps you rewarded Apple's "greed" by stepping up to a more expensive machine?
No, because their pricing on the 15" rMBP was fair. I rewarded their fair pricing policy.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:06 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
Unless, of course, said "customer" is a plant from the company. Is Apple above that? I can't say I ever recall them doing that, but who knows; maybe that's something they can still actually keep secret for years on end.
I'm definitely not an Apple employee or plant.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:07 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ArtOfWarfare View Post
Unless, of course, said "customer" is a plant from the company. Is Apple above that? I can't say I ever recall them doing that, but who knows; maybe that's something they can still actually keep secret for years on end.
KPOM is not an Apple plant, he's just often too quick to try to justify Apple's anti-consumer pricing practices, even when they totally defy reality.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:10 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
KPOM is not an Apple plant, he's just often too quick to try to justify Apple's anti-consumer pricing practices, even when they totally defy reality.
I'm surprised you are more upset about the $200 premium on the display rather than the prices they charge for extra flash storage. Now that's where they really pad their margins.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
I'm surprised you are more upset about the $200 premium on the display rather than the prices they charge for extra flash storage. Now that's where they really pad their margins.
You forgot ram. It's not user upgradable in the retinas as it's soldered to the MB thus forcing you to buy from Apple.

My only gripe with purchasing a refurb of these - I'd want the base with 16GB of ram and that doesn't seem possible.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:15 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Yvan256 View Post
I'm not paying 1400$+ for a computer with an Intel GPU.
its a bit ignorant to say that

That being said I know... I'm funny about it too but the they really came along way
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:18 PM   #37
KPOM
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
No, because their pricing on the 15" rMBP was fair. I rewarded their fair pricing policy.
How do you define "fair"? You seem to be basing it on the premium to the cMBP. But is that the right measure? There is a $600 premium between the base 13" cMBP and the base 15" cMBP. Is the quad-core processor, the discrete GPU, and larger screen really "worth" the extra $600? It certainly doesn't cost anywhere near that much more. Maybe the 15" rMBP just seems more "fairly" priced because they are gouging the 15"rMBP customers.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diode View Post
You forgot ram. It's not user upgradable in the retinas as it's soldered to the MB thus forcing you to buy from Apple.

My only gripe with purchasing a refurb of these - I'd want the base with 16GB of ram and that doesn't seem possible.
The maximum RAM is 8GB on the 13" model.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:18 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Squilly View Post
It's certain. Been proven on this thread: https://discussions.apple.com/messag...23456#20942503
thanks!
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:22 PM   #39
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Can I get these things shipped to Europe?
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:23 PM   #40
Muscle Master
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
How do you define "fair"? You seem to be basing it on the premium to the cMBP. But is that the right measure? There is a $600 premium between the base 13" cMBP and the base 15" cMBP. Is the quad-core processor, the discrete GPU, and larger screen really "worth" the extra $600? It certainly doesn't cost anywhere near that much more. Maybe the 15" rMBP just seems more "fairly" priced because they are gouging the 15"rMBP customers.

----------



The maximum RAM is 8GB on the 13" model.
If I had to guess... Apple was testing the market
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:33 PM   #41
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I wish the prices were more Refurbished. First adopter tech is always expensive with revision 1.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:36 PM   #42
KnightWRX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
I'm surprised you are more upset about the $200 premium on the display rather than the prices they charge for extra flash storage. Now that's where they really pad their margins.
The padding occurs accross the whole range, equally. Yes, it's greedy that there's such a premium for a 32 GB iPhone vs a 16 GB one when the only change is 10$ worth of Flash, but it's consistent accross the whole line-up. I'm not upset about the display, just find it ludicrous that it's a 0$ option on the 15" and a 200$ option the 13" basically.

If it was 200$ on both at least, it would make sense (I'm OCD, stuff needs to make sense).

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
How do you define "fair"? You seem to be basing it on the premium to the cMBP. But is that the right measure?
Yes. That was the right measure for me. Of course, there's no measure to make the 13" cMBP to 13" rMBP fair. None. You need to enter "market will bear-Apple PR land" to make it work, which should be left to people paid by Apple, not its users.

Stop playing "Apple PR person".
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:37 PM   #43
greg78x
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The 13" MBA has a 1440x900 screen, vs the 13" cMBP that has a 1280x800 screen.

However, I doubt a rMBA would have a 2880x1800 screen, they simply stick to the 2560x1600 screen.
That's what I figured. I doubt they would double to 2880 wide. They'd simply use the rMBP's screen. Makes sense. Thanks for the input.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dlimes13 View Post
$1439 sounds like a good price for a NEW one... Should have been around that price to begin with.
Apple On Campus <3 1.399€
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:41 PM   #45
KPOM
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post

Yes. That was the right measure for me. Of course, there's no measure to make the 13" cMBP to 13" rMBP fair. None.
Sure there is. Is it worth it to me, the customer making the decision, to pay $200 more for the rMBP in order to get a machine that's nearly a pound lighter and has a better display? If yes, then it's a "fair" price to me. If not, then it isn't. Since I'm not in the market for a 15" notebook, Apple's relative pricing on the 15" models is irrelevant.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:43 PM   #46
snowmen
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I wouldn't mind buying a refurbished desktop because I could get a new keyboard and mouse... Those are the places somebody else touched the most...

But unless Apple change whole new exterior parts, I'm not buying refurbished laptop or tablet...
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
There's little competition in the 15" arena too, and yet the rMBP 15" managed to be priced very close to a 15" cMBP, in fact, the Retina display becomes a no-cost option if you configure both the 15" cMBP and the 15" rMBP to the same specs.

Yet, the 13" rMBP has the display as a 200$ option. A similarly configured 13" cMBP is 200$ cheaper.

There's no explanation for that, you can't spin this kind of stuff (well, you'll try...).
What does the "c" before "MBP" stand for? Sure hope it aint crap...
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:53 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Pianoblack3 View Post
What does the "c" before "MBP" stand for? Sure hope it aint crap...
Classic I suppose... a non-retina, non-SSD MBP.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:56 PM   #49
KnightWRX
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Originally Posted by Pianoblack3 View Post
What does the "c" before "MBP" stand for? Sure hope it aint crap...
Classic or Current (because when people started the cMBP vs rMBP appellation, the then Current MacBook Pro was non-Retina).

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Is it worth it to me, the customer
Stop the spin, that's not a measure, that again is an Apple PR person's spin. It makes no logical sense, it's purely marketing hocus pocus. You're not paid by Apple, start being pro-consumer, not pro-Apple marketing spin.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 02:58 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The padding occurs accross the whole range, equally. Yes, it's greedy that there's such a premium for a 32 GB iPhone vs a 16 GB one when the only change is 10$ worth of Flash, but it's consistent accross the whole line-up. I'm not upset about the display, just find it ludicrous that it's a 0$ option on the 15" and a 200$ option the 13" basically.

If it was 200$ on both at least, it would make sense (I'm OCD, stuff needs to make sense).

----------



Yes. That was the right measure for me. Of course, there's no measure to make the 13" cMBP to 13" rMBP fair. None. You need to enter "market will bear-Apple PR land" to make it work, which should be left to people paid by Apple, not its users.

Stop playing "Apple PR person".
Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Sure there is. Is it worth it to me, the customer making the decision, to pay $200 more for the rMBP in order to get a machine that's nearly a pound lighter and has a better display? If yes, then it's a "fair" price to me. If not, then it isn't. Since I'm not in the market for a 15" notebook, Apple's relative pricing on the 15" models is irrelevant.
Look, KPOM is right. I find the price of the 13 rMBP too expensive to buy. Much as I would like one. And the price of the 15 inch version is irrelevant as it is a different product. Its only relevance is when you the buyer might decide to choose it instead as its mix of features and price is more appealing to you when you push the purchase button.

But just because I can't afford a 13 rMBP does that mean it is not a fair price? Not to me. But more generally, no. Because Apple is probably selling them as fast as they can make them. A sign that they are too expensive would be if they started piling up in warehouses unsold. That would be a sign that Apple has set the price too high.

If Apple didn't charge as high a price as it could for any of its products, it is not being fair to its shareholders. And there are many shareholders, while you, KnightWrx, are a constituency of one. Apple is not a charity.

In a market economy, a seller tries to get the highest price they can for a product, and the buyer tries to get the lowest price they can. The seller has their pricing right when they can make as much money as possible for every widget they are able to make.

In a non market economy, an entity (ruler, politburo, SMA, guild etc) determines the price of a product. All products end up looking the same, quality nosedives, and nobody could be arsed being innovative as it takes forever to get the design and price approved. They all copy the approved design. And the buyers end up in queues and waiting lists to buy crap at approved and mandated prices.
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