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Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:30 PM   #76
flux73
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Originally Posted by melendezest View Post
Now, pricing can be argued to death; just ask a PC evangelist. No Apple price will EVER be fair or reasonable. I'd sum it up like this: I want to pay as little as (legally) possible for my Macs, but I will use Macs at any price, at least until a PC is equivalent to a Mac, both hardware and software-wise. Damn you, Apple, for knowing your products are like crack!
Yup. What I always say is that a "fair" price happens when the price a consumer is willing to pay is equal to the price a seller is willing to sell it at. And thus of course, "fair" is not a fixed price.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:36 PM   #77
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...Some people value processing power. Other people value size.
I'm coming into this conversation late, so I'm likely missing something, but...

If you want to go with size, get an MBA. It has a much better price vs. performance ratio.

To me, the 13" rMBP is a complete waste of money. It's not as thin and sleek as the MBA, and not nearly as capable as the 15" rMBP. All in all, the 13" is a pretty crappy low end of the mid level laptop with a really nice screen.

...and that really nice screen won't amount to much because it doesn't have a graphics card capable of taking advantage of it.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:41 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
I also compared it to a Passat. No analogy is perfect. But the point is valid. Different people value different things. Some people value processing power. Other people value size.
I value size, but there was nothing justifying the 200$ Retina panel vs the free Retina panel. Don't try to turn the argument around. The 13" rMBP is overpriced compared to the 15" rMBP. Both use different strategies that ends up in this mess. Why ? Don't know, don't care, that's Apple PR's job to spin it. But it is what it is.

200$ vs 0$. I picked 0$.

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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
Yup. What I always say is that a "fair" price happens when the price a consumer is willing to pay is equal to the price a seller is willing to sell it at. And thus of course, "fair" is not a fixed price.
Call it consistent then.

15" rMBP - 0$ Retina Display.
13" rMBP - 200$ Retina Display.

Not. Consistent.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:49 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
That's the only logical explanation. And it's not consumer friendly at all.


It's quite consumer hostile.
Hahaha, I usually don't _really_ ever laugh out loud, but I did at that

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post

15" rMBP - 0$ Retina Display.
13" rMBP - 200$ Retina Display.

Not. Consistent.
Yeah, if anything, I could see the 15" being the product that was more expensive (larger, harder to source display, more pixels, more heat, more cooling engineering with the quad options, etc.).

The 13" being more doesn't work in any kind of product/manufacturing consideration, it has to be artificial. It's just weird.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 06:54 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I value size, but there was nothing justifying the 200$ Retina panel vs the free Retina panel. Don't try to turn the argument around. The 13" rMBP is overpriced compared to the 15" rMBP. Both use different strategies that ends up in this mess. Why ? Don't know, don't care, that's Apple PR's job to spin it. But it is what it is.

200$ vs 0$. I picked 0$.[COLOR="#808080"]
But to get your "free" Retina Display you had to pay extra to get a quad-core CPU and discrete GPU that you didn't need.

If you need or want more processing power, then yes, the 15" rMBP is a better value. It may be a better value for most people. Just not me.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
I'm coming into this conversation late, so I'm likely missing something, but...

If you want to go with size, get an MBA. It has a much better price vs. performance ratio.

To me, the 13" rMBP is a complete waste of money. It's not as thin and sleek as the MBA, and not nearly as capable as the 15" rMBP. All in all, the 13" is a pretty crappy low end of the mid level laptop with a really nice screen.

...and that really nice screen won't amount to much because it doesn't have a graphics card capable of taking advantage of it.
I've had MacBook Airs since February 2008. Believe me, I knew what I was getting into when I bought a 13" rMBP. As much as I liked those MacBook Airs, I am really liking the screen on the rMBP. The HD4000 is more than capable of handling everyday tasks and even photo editing. Remember, it isn't as if 2560x1600 screens are new. It's just that no one had ever put one in a 13" notebook before.

My only regret is that I didn't lose my MacBook Air a month later*. I figured refurbished units would become available soon after the holidays but needed to replace it in December. I got a great price from MacMall, but would have snapped up a refurb in an instant. Apple does refurbished sales in the right way.

* - Actually, I'd prefer not to have lost that MacBook Air and have had to make an insurance claim in the first place.

Last edited by KPOM; Jan 17, 2013 at 07:00 PM.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:03 PM   #81
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Have they fixed the scrolling issue? If not, it's still a no go. As of last weekend in the Apple store, it was still not fixed.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:14 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
But to get your "free" Retina Display you had to pay extra to get a quad-core CPU and discrete GPU that you didn't need.
You're turning the argument around again. And arguing in circles now. I told you that I put them to good use so they didn't cost me anything either. Now I need them.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:15 PM   #83
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Retina models are so pricey for what they are. If they weren't several weeks salary I'd consider it but I get much more out of their standard line (like 2Tb of storage in my current model for one thing).

Hope they don't discontinue the non-retina models unless they deal with price and storage first.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:28 PM   #84
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Im looking at the 2.9 i7. $400 off retail!!!! Thats an amazing deal!!!! The wife may be getting a new Mac.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:32 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
You're turning the argument around again. And arguing in circles now. I told you that I put them to good use so they didn't cost me anything either. Now I need them.
How is it turning the argument around? I'm not saying you aren't using them since they are there. However, it seemed from your earlier statement that the actual equipment in the 13" rMBP would have suited your needs. So because you felt a $1699 machine was $200 overpriced, you went ahead and bought a $2199 machine (albeit with faster components).

What you did is a little bit like buying a 96oz container of orange juice for $4.00 when all you typically consume before the expiration date is the $3.00 64oz container because the 96oz container is cheaper by the ounce. Sure, since the extra 32oz are "there" you might drink them, but it still means you paid more for something you didn't necessarily need.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candlelight View Post
Retina models are so pricey for what they are. If they weren't several weeks salary I'd consider it but I get much more out of their standard line (like 2Tb of storage in my current model for one thing).

Hope they don't discontinue the non-retina models unless they deal with price and storage first.
I'm guessing Apple won't leave the $1199-$1699 space unaddressed. Perhaps with Haswell they will have flexibility to either bump up the capabilities of the Air, or they will reduce the price of the 13" rMBP accordingly (or some combination of the two).
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:32 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
How is it turning the argument around? I'm not saying you aren't using them since they are there. However, it seemed from your earlier statement that the actual equipment in the 13" rMBP would have suited your needs. So because you felt a $1699 machine was $200 overpriced, you went ahead and bought a $2199 machine (albeit with faster components).

What you did is ...
Make a new hobby for myself. End of discussion on that. I made a conscious choice to buy a new laptop, with a dGPU this time and get back into some gaming, because value per dollar was better than continuing with my old needs.

New computer, new needs, everything is dandy.

The other choice was a 13" cMBP (as if), or stick with my Air (was kinda wanting a bit more).
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:33 PM   #87
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The question is: Can you apply student specials to this?
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:36 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by stanli View Post
Mac Horizon in Hollywood CA has a good selection of used or pre-owned macs.
Currently they have a used macbook pro 13" 2.9ghz i7 and also macbook pro 15" 2.2ghz i7 Quad.
We live all in Hollywood. More or less.

;-)
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:38 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
The question is: Can you apply student specials to this?
it doesn't stack
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 07:41 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Candlelight View Post
Retina models are so pricey for what they are. If they weren't several weeks salary I'd consider it but I get much more out of their standard line (like 2Tb of storage in my current model for one thing). Hope they don't discontinue the non-retina models unless they deal with price and storage first.
2 TB SSD is impossible in the current price range of the rMBPs.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:30 PM   #91
KPOM
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Make a new hobby for myself. End of discussion on that. I made a conscious choice to buy a new laptop, with a dGPU this time and get back into some gaming, because value per dollar was better than continuing with my old needs.
And that's fine. Everyone can make his or her own value judgments. But just because the 13" rMBP isn't right for you doesn't mean its pricing is "unfair" or irrational. Prices between different products at the same company aren't always consistent.
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:42 PM   #92
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These "refurbished" models are probably all units with LG displays. The ones with notable image retention issues. The ones which some of us paid full price for and never could get fixed because according to Apple, "they are working within spec".
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Old Jan 17, 2013, 08:54 PM   #93
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$1439 sounds like a good price for a NEW one... Should have been around that price to begin with.


Yes true. But I know they will adjust the price close to this or below for new ones when update to Haswell. Like with Air when first came out.


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Old Jan 17, 2013, 09:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Naaaaak View Post
These "refurbished" models are probably all units with LG displays. The ones with notable image retention issues. The ones which some of us paid full price for and never could get fixed because according to Apple, "they are working within spec".
Not necessarily. People have reported getting the Samsung screens with the 15". Anyway, it isn't a given that LG screens will develop IR issues. There also currently is no Terminal script to identify the screens. People might have returned the 13" for other reasons (too expensive, decided to get the 15"). And it's also possible that some were returned for acknowledged IR issues and that Apple fixed the screen.

In general, since Apple refurbished units have been physically inspected, the odds of getting a defect may actually be lower than with a new unit (most of which roll off the assembly line and straight into a package).

Last edited by KPOM; Jan 18, 2013 at 07:13 PM.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:07 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
The maximum RAM is 8GB on the 13" model.
An artificial limit set by Apple?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:09 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Not necessarily. People have reported getting the Samsung screens with the 15". Anyway, it isn't a given that LG screens will develop IR issues. There also current is no Terminal script to identify the screens. People might have returned the 13" for other reasons (too expensive, decided to get the 15"). And it's also possible that some were returned for acknowledged IR issues and that Apple fixed the screen.

In general, since Apple refurbished units have been physically inspected, the odds of getting a defect may actually be lower than with a new unit (most of which roll off the assembly line and straight into a package).
You think they do a complete check for IR?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:13 AM   #97
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I'm holding off for the retina display MBA. Thank you!
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:13 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by MMOTotal View Post
I'm holding out until the updates, if Apple do discontinue the classic MacBook Pro line I would assume the price on the retina models would decrease.
Not where refurbs are concerned...

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Originally Posted by mdmacfan View Post
Classic I suppose... a non-retina, non-SSD MBP.
You can buy a cMBP with an SSD inside; it's just a 2.5" SATA SSD instead of an mSATA blade. the "c" stands for classic, as in, the now-venerable non-retina unibody design that has somehow survived long enough to stand side-by-side with its obvious successor for a year.

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Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
The question is: Can you apply student specials to this?
Nope. Student discounts have never applied to refurbished models (and they likely never will in the future).
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:32 AM   #99
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The "c" stands for classic, as in, the now-venerable non-retina unibody design that has somehow survived long enough to stand side-by-side with its obvious successor for a year.
To get rid of the standard model and replace it with a suddenly more expensive model would've be a bad move. They needed to give it a year to give a big indicator to the crowd that optical drives, firewire and ethernet ports (and overall user upgradability) would be phased out of Apple laptop design.

Then again Apple have made no secret optical drives have been on the chopping block for a while.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:37 AM   #100
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strange, street price 13" retina 128GB new (non-refurbished) in Japan is ¥115.000, or about $1278.
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