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Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:24 PM   #126
melendezest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
By "average" I'm speaking more in terms of demographics. Most Mac users (myself included) don't anything special on the Mac that they couldn't do on a $500 Windows PC. However, not everyone can afford a $1699 rMBP, or even a $999 MacBook Air. Macs typically appeals to people in upper income groups with higher levels of education, much the same way that BMW appeals to a different audience from Chevrolet, so do Apple products as compared to HP and Dell. A Chevy Malibu and a BMW 335 will do equally well at getting someone to work or the grocery store. But I doubt people would say that BMW is aiming for the "average" audience. (There I go again with car analogies).
I agree, from that particular point of view.

However, I save up in order to buy my Macs, because I am an average user with regards to use (neither programmer nor creative professional), and would typically not be able to drop $2500 on a whim. I just cannot go back to PC hardware (or software on a permanent basis; occasional/secondary use is fine). Macs are the only computers that give me the flexibility to move between worlds, smoothly and painlessly.

So while the car analogy doesn't fit exactly, I can say that regardless of whether BMW is aiming for a different audience, anyone who values them can buy one with the proper preparation. And so it is with Macs. Apple is very good at pricing things right at the edge of reach..call it greed, consumer-gouging, or just plain capitalism/business sense, it is irrelevant and another story entirely. They're selling at the prices they set (like crazy), because they can get away with it. I don't like it from the consumer sense, but if I could, I'd do the same from the business standpoint.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Satori View Post
Starbucks Yuppies, trustafarian boomers, and classrooms filled with students $200K in debt.
Yeah, they're all over the place and I sold a bunch of them.
Hahahahaha, "trustafarian boomers"!! I love it.

Too true, but not limited to them. There's the rest of us too that just love the product strictly for what it is and what it can do (don't do Starbucks, middle-class, middle-aged father of 6, $250k mortgage).

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Originally Posted by JohnLT13 View Post
Im looking at the 2.9 i7. $400 off retail!!!! Thats an amazing deal!!!! The wife may be getting a new Mac.
This is the best way to buy Macs.

However, we have a new problem: the soldered RAM on the Airs and Retinas mean you have to wait for it to become available. This sucks. RAM is something that I never want to leave on the low end.

OWC regularly tests and shows that for many Macs the RAM ceiling imposed by Apple can be exceeded as new chips are released. Whether or not this is still the case, I don't know. But it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as a Mac is/should not (in my mind, at least) be the same as an idevice when it comes to that.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 12:53 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by MH01 View Post
Your greedy defending ur stock choice. Cool. Fact still remains the 13 is overpriced however you spin it.
You have some nerve judging someone as being "greedy". Like you would be saying that if you had the luck/foresight to buy AAPL back when it was less than $100.

You seem to be under the impression that "overpriced" is an objective measure. Let me illustrate why you're wrong...

I had an Apple TV 2 that was jailbroken. I managed to sell it on E-bay for over $200 last month. I sold it because I didn't really use the jailbreak features. Somebody else found it really useful. I didn't force them to pay $200+ for it. That's what it was worth to them. For me, I'd never pay that because it's "overpriced".

On the seller's side, a product is only overpriced if no one is buying it. On the buyer's side, a product is only overpriced if you really want it but are mad about paying the asking price. Wah. First world problems. Newsflash: your opinion on what a reasonable price is, is not the gold standard.

Last edited by flux73; Jan 18, 2013 at 12:59 PM.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:10 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flux73 View Post

On the seller's side, a product is only overpriced if no one is buying it. On the buyer's side, a product is only overpriced if you really want it but are mad about paying the asking price. Wah. First world problems. Newsflash: your opinion on what a reasonable price is, is not the gold standard.
It's people like you that allow me to get away with my magic bean business. God bless you, sir!
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 01:39 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
The only reason I can see for Apple doing this [selling the rMBP 13 without a significantly lower price] to the pricing is to actually discourage high volume of 13" rMBP sales. At the volumes they sell the 13" MBP vs the 15" MBP, non-Retina, they probably thought that a 1499$ would result in too high volume for their capacity to produce Retina displays.

So they priced themselves out of the market a bit, in order to decrease volume.

That's the only logical explanation. And it's not consumer friendly at all. It's quite consumer hostile. Just making the "shipping window" longer would've had the same effect (wait 3-4 weeks for a 13" rMBP or go 15" ?).
Perhaps. It also isn't fair to people who want power and a smaller laptop and are willing to pay for it. The previous 13 cMBP set a precedent for low bang-to-buck without a good upgrade alternative that didn't mean a larger laptop. I know Apple doesn't like market research but I think they make less assumptions about their customers.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 02:26 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melendezest View Post
Hahahahaha, "trustafarian boomers"!! I love it.

Too true, but not limited to them. There's the rest of us too
that just love the product strictly for what it is and what it
can do (don't do Starbucks, middle-class, middle-aged father of 6, $250k mortgage).
I sometimes paint with a broad brush for comedic effect from my palette of over the top humor.

Glad you liked the trustafarian boomers bit.
I'll be here all weekend.
Or till the next time I'm banned for being a forum jester.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:11 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duffmanth View Post
The average consumer isn't going to spend that much on a 13" laptop and creative pros are buying 15" or larger laptops.
Go into a busy Starbucks sometime and check out the folks with 13 inch Macbooks open in front of them. I think that you are correct. These are not your "average consumer".
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 05:28 PM   #132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
At 1499$, myself and a collegue would own 13" rMBPs. Now instead he went with a MBA, I went with the 15" rMBP.
I;m not sure, but ISTM that Apple made more profit on those two than they woujld have on a pair of 13" rMBPs. No?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 06:20 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Go into a busy Starbucks sometime and check out the folks with 13 inch Macbooks open in front of them. I think that you are correct. These are not your "average consumer".
Not average but starbucks and apple doing just fine selling to this crowd.

God knows I don't need starbucks and don't go there ... one large extra strong coffee at home in the morning before getting in the car is enough caffeine for me.

It is a pretty amazing place to see all the people making 15k a year serving up 4/5 dollar drinks ( dunno sorry no idea on the prices ) to the 75/100+ k crowd.

Guess a whole bunch of the 30/40k crowd are also spending too much of their future retirement funds there also.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 07:04 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
I;m not sure, but ISTM that Apple made more profit on those two than they woujld have on a pair of 13" rMBPs. No?
Apple's percentage profit is probably higher on the 13" rMBPs, but I get your point and tried that logic on him as well. He said that the 15" was still "better" since there was no premium for the Retina display relative to the regular 15" model similarly equipped while there is a $200 premium on the 13". That's true, but it still doesn't explain getting a $2199 computer when a $1699 would do.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:16 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Apple's percentage profit is probably higher on the 13" rMBPs, but I get your point and tried that logic on him as well. He said that the 15" was still "better" since there was no premium for the Retina display relative to the regular 15" model similarly equipped while there is a $200 premium on the 13". That's true, but it still doesn't explain getting a $2199 computer when a $1699 would do.
I think it's simply that a 15" rmbp is actually priced way more with the market curve in terms of memory, storage, graphics card, and resolution. More is packed into the computer and so in a sense, it is a bargain.

For instance let's compare the 13" rmbp to the 13" MBA (I actually think the two have the most in common).

13" MBA: configured to 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD = $1299

13" rmbp: 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD = $1699

13" MBA configured to 8 GM RAM, 256 GB SSD: $1599

13" rmbp: 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: $1999

That's a $400 premium for the screen and extra HDMI port, and you're losing out on some lightness that makes the MBA appealing.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 10:34 PM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
That's true, but it still doesn't explain getting a $2199 computer when a $1699 would do.
I already explained it to you. You think I bought the 15" when it was more than my needs ? No, I looked into getting a few games and getting back into gaming a bit BEFORE I forked over 2199$ for the 15".

What are you not understanding here ? The 13" was completely written off, had been for a few days.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 11:14 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
I already explained it to you. You think I bought the 15" when it was more than my needs ? No, I looked into getting a few games and getting back into gaming a bit BEFORE I forked over 2199$ for the 15".

What are you not understanding here ? The 13" was completely written off, had been for a few days.
You said that if the 13" rMBP were $1499 you'd have one. Don't rewrite history. It sounds like you are trying to rationalize spending more for a "better value."
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 11:30 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Poisonivy326 View Post
I think it's simply that a 15" rmbp is actually priced way more with the market curve in terms of memory, storage, graphics card, and resolution. More is packed into the computer and so in a sense, it is a bargain.

For instance let's compare the 13" rmbp to the 13" MBA (I actually think the two have the most in common).

13" MBA: configured to 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD = $1299

13" rmbp: 8 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD = $1699

13" MBA configured to 8 GM RAM, 256 GB SSD: $1599

13" rmbp: 8 GB RAM, 256 GB SSD: $1999

That's a $400 premium for the screen and extra HDMI port, and you're losing out on some lightness that makes the MBA appealing.
I don't disagree that the 15" offers a much more powerful computer for a similar price.

Regarding the MBA/rMBP comparisons, it's also important to point out that the base 2.5GHz i5 in the Pro is roughly comparable to the 2.0 GHz ULV i7 in the higher end Air. That reduces the premium to about $300. While it is heavier, it is also narrower and shallower, so it might be a little more convenient on an airplane tray.

I am a big fan of the MacBook Air. I bought my first nearly 5 years ago when it first came out, and interestingly was being bashed as "overpriced," and "another G4 Cube" when it first came out. There were some legitimate gripes about that first Air. It had horrible thermals and frequently shut down one of the processor cores. But it was the future and I knew it back then. The late 2012 13" rMBP is far better relative to the rest of the MacBook line than that early 2008 MBA was (or even the much-improved late 2008 model). I'd place it relative to the late-2010 MBA. That machine was "almost" perfect. It got the form factor and thermals right and was a decent value, but had a Core 2 Duo in a Core i5/i7 world. Apple got it fully "right" a few months later with the Sandy Bridge model.

The 2012 13" rMBP is a bit pricey for what you get. I'll grant you that. But it has a good form factor, the second best screen in the market right now, good battery life, and decent, if not spectacular, power. The price is high for a mainstream notebook, and it's clear that it isn't mainstream yet. When it hits $1299 or even $1499 it may well be. However, that doesn't mean that it's a "ripoff" or that they can't justify the selling price. That's for consumers to decide. We'll find out in a few days how well Apple's overall strategy worked over the holidays.

My own guess is that Apple had yield issues and decided to price the product accordingly, knowing that the screen would bring people in, and that some of those people would walk out with a MacBook of some kind. If yield were no issue, they'd have announced it back in June along with the 15" rather than wait 4.5 months. More power to them.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 05:58 AM   #139
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Time to get one ;-)

My polycarbonate MacBook get's a little old, ... ;-)
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 07:16 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
You said that if the 13" rMBP were $1499 you'd have one. Don't rewrite history. It sounds like you are trying to rationalize spending more for a "better value."
Yes. I did. No, I didn't rationalize anything. Timeline time since you seem to have a hard time understanding here :

- 1499$ rMBP 13" was what I had in mind. Apple announced 1699$. Gave up the idea completely to change my Air.
- Few days later, after a browsing session on Steam for something to spend some time on, noticed that a few titles I wanted to play had specs that required the dGPU on the 15" anyhow.
- Looked at 15" MBPs, found that the Retina was the best deal.
- Bought the 15".

I'm not rationalizing anything. You just don't understand or don't want to understand what happened here. I don't buy "overspecced" machines, haven't for years.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 08:49 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhurley View Post
Not average but starbucks and apple doing just fine selling to this crowd.

God knows I don't need starbucks and don't go there ... one large extra strong coffee at home in the morning before getting in the car is enough caffeine for me.

It is a pretty amazing place to see all the people making 15k a year serving up 4/5 dollar drinks ( dunno sorry no idea on the prices ) to the 75/100+ k crowd.

Guess a whole bunch of the 30/40k crowd are also spending too much of their future retirement funds there also.
Not only do many people consume a certain brand of coffee regardless of affordability or value, but many of those same people pose in the retailer's establishment with computers which they bought with the same factors being ignored.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Apple's percentage profit is probably higher on the 13" rMBPs, but I get your point and tried that logic on him as well. He said that the 15" was still "better" since there was no premium for the Retina display relative to the regular 15" model similarly equipped while there is a $200 premium on the 13". That's true, but it still doesn't explain getting a $2199 computer when a $1699 would do.

No explanation is necessary.

He looked at Apple's pricing on the 13 inch rMBP, and decided that other purchases were more appropriate. Those other purchases give Apple more profit than if he bought a couple of 13 inch rMBP as originally planned.

ISTM that Apple's pricing strategy has worked like a charm. ISTM that it was a major factor which convinced these consumers to give even more profit to Apple.
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Old Jan 19, 2013, 01:40 PM   #142
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It looks like the first batch of refurbished 13" rMBPs are sold out. They must have been pretty popular.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 07:03 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by MH01 View Post
Be nice to think they did it to be nice, though most probably due to supply constraints
Really, likely it was neither. Likely, they realized that given, both the screen and the changes into the body of the machine (lack of ports, mSATA replacing 2.5" SATA, no optical drive, etc.) and given that it is their most popular Mac product line, they wanted to give users a year to transition. Hell, the screen alone, is probably reason enough to stagger the transition; developers still have a long way to go to get more apps retina-native.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candlelight View Post
To get rid of the standard model and replace it with a suddenly more expensive model would've be a bad move. They needed to give it a year to give a big indicator to the crowd that optical drives, firewire and ethernet ports (and overall user upgradability) would be phased out of Apple laptop design.

Then again Apple have made no secret optical drives have been on the chopping block for a while.
Right...THIS is that year. We are six months through that year. When the next rev comes out, retinas will be updated with Haswell internals and a few slight Rev. B design tweaks, non-retinas will be discontinued along with the Ivy Bridge retina models.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:56 PM   #144
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I've saved thousands buying mfr refurb electronics over the years and have almost never had a complaint. best of both worlds of getting the same warranty as a new computer but getting a significant discount at the same time. my MBA is a certified apple refurb and it looks and feels like brand new. saving 15% is a no brainer IMO
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:14 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
It looks like the first batch of refurbished 13" rMBPs are sold out. They must have been pretty popular.
And I guess in spite of several posters' insistence, the price was in fact, fair.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:10 PM   #146
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I'm sure many people are aware of this fact, but I have to repeat it just to show how over priced Apple is.

The Google Nexus 10 has a 10.1" 2500x1600 AMOLED LED display, a top of the line processor, and all for $399.99. There is no question about it, if Google/Samsung can produce a screen of that caliber for under $400, Apple's 13" inch retina should be $1399 or a higher resolution.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 05:21 PM   #147
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Cancelled my cmbp to buy this rmbp

Really why i did this is because

Stock regular Mac book pro
1,200
+8gb ram 50$
+128gb ssd 128 100$
Apple care 100-200 whatever dollars
Actually come up to more money than the retina MacBook Pro
Because I was going to pay for the ssd and the ram and upgrade it myself so to me the screen is basically free but if you don't care about a ssd or ram cmbp is better and you can save a little more money
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 01:26 AM   #148
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Image


Apple today added the new 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro to the refurbished section of its online store, giving prospective customers the opportunity to save 15% compared to brand-new machine. Currently available models include:

- 2.5 GHz Core i5 with 128 GB storage: $1439, compared to $1699 new

- 2.5 GHz Core i5 with 256 GB storage: $1699, compared to $1999 new

- 2.9 GHz Core i7 with 512 GB storage: $2289, compared to $2689 new

All three models are listed as shipping in 1-3 business days.

As with all of Apple's refurbished products, the 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro units have been thoroughly tested and reconditioned and carry a one-year warranty equal to that offered on brand-new machines.

The addition of the 13-inch Retina MacBook Pro to Apple's refurbished store comes roughly two weeks after the appearance of 15-inch models. But with the 13-inch models having just been introduced in October, some four months after the launch of the 15-inch models, the smaller Retina MacBook Pro has made the transition to the refurbished store much more quickly than its larger sibling.

(Thanks, Alan!)

Article Link: Refurbished 13-Inch Retina MacBook Pro Models Appear in Apple's Online Store

When will be the refurbished price for other country?
I wanna buy MacPro Retina.
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Old Feb 8, 2013, 03:37 PM   #149
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Something else folks don't consider is how strong the resale value of your mac is. I usually upgrade every year and sell my prior mac at a $100 to $300 loss. I'm curious if PC buyers can even find a buyer for a used Dell or HP let alone get close to the original asking price.
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