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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:03 AM   #26
mac1984user
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Originally Posted by Radio View Post
I read elsewhere that the nexus 7 is outselling the iPad mini in other countries
I tend to see a lot of Nexus 7s these days when commuting on the train. It's not a sign of any kind of sales trajectory necessarily, but I'm always kind of shocked to see non-Apple tablets out in the open - it seems to be more of a regular occurrence these days (perhaps for good reasons). I was half tempted by a Nexus and bought the 4th gen iPad instead due to the apps I already own for it. There's no doubt, however, that my next phone will be the Nexus 4. =)

I wonder if Apple will be able to say that they cannibalised the iPad 4 market with the Mini or if they'll start acknowledging the actual (or potential) impact the reasonably priced Android tablets are starting to have.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:05 AM   #27
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You guys still think they can compete against an open platform like android?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:05 AM   #28
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New Display Tech?

With all this talk of drastic cuts in orders, has anyone considered that they might merely switch to a different type of display?
Hence cutting orders in the old lines?
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:06 AM   #29
TC03
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Originally Posted by bbplayer5 View Post
You guys still think they can compete against an open platform like android?
That's not the edge Android devices have, people could care less about whether it's open. 'Open' just means 'open', not better. What does give Android devices an edge is the following:

1. They're cheaper.
2. They have bigger screens.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:07 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by TC03 View Post
It's unbelievable how weak these rumours are. The rumour is basically saying: "We've heard about iPad display cuts, but we don't know why nor how much. LG and Samsung do not have such cutdowns, which doesn't really make sense, so we basically know jack. Still, we think it's worth mentioning on Reuters so the whole world can misinterpret our story."

What the hell is this?
Well, let's assume this is true. Let's say display production is equal between suppliers, LG, Samsung, Sharp all having 1/3 (which is a ludicrous proposition as they have different manufacturing capacity). If Apple cuts Sharp, but keeps Samsung/LG numbers normal, they've still cut their orders 33%. That's quite a big margin.

So even with Samsung and LG being oblivious to cuts in orders, Apple has decreased its orders by quite the margin. People are saying the iPad Mini numbers are too blame, that the iPad Mini is cannibalizing iPad sales. That's expected. Is it 33% of it ? That would be big.

Again, this is assuming this stuff is even true and not just "seasonal shifts" being hyperboled to mean something they don't (everyone knows Jan-Mar is a slower quarter than Oct-Dec for everyone in consumer products). We'll all know next week, Jan 23rd at the financials.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:08 AM   #31
TC03
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Originally Posted by Dreamail View Post
With all this talk of drastic cuts in orders, has anyone considered that they might merely switch to a different type of display?
Hence cutting orders in the old lines?
Except that makes no sense.

I think it was to be expected that iPad mini sales will cannibilize full size iPad sales, so shifting towards iPad mini displays instead of 9.7" displays makes sense.

I just don't see the problem here.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:08 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by bbplayer5 View Post
You guys still think they can compete against an open platform like android?
Windows held a monopoly over the desktop/laptop segment (and still does) for decades with a closed platform. Open/Closed as nothing to do with it.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:10 AM   #33
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Reuters reports that Sharp, one of Apple's primary display panel partners for its mobile devices, has slashed production of iPad displays at one of its plants. Sources did not indicate the reasons for the dramatic cut, but it appears to be a combination of a shift in consumer interest to the smaller iPad mini and a natural seasonal slowdown coming out of the holiday quarter.
So basically not much news here then .....
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:11 AM   #34
TC03
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Well, let's assume this is true. Let's say display production is equal between suppliers, LG, Samsung, Sharp all having 1/3 (which is a ludicrous proposition as they have different manufacturing capacity). If Apple cuts Sharp, but keeps Samsung/LG numbers normal, they've still cut their orders 33%. That's quite a big margin.

So even with Samsung and LG being oblivious to cuts in orders, Apple has decreased its orders by quite the margin. People are saying the iPad Mini numbers are too blame, that the iPad Mini is cannibalizing iPad sales. That's expected. Is it 33% of it ? That would be big.

Again, this is assuming this stuff is even true and not just "seasonal shifts" being hyperboled to mean something they don't (everyone knows Jan-Mar is a slower quarter than Oct-Dec for everyone in consumer products). We'll all know next week, Jan 23rd at the financials.
I follow your reasoning, but the point I was trying to make is... that this rumour has no point.

What this rumours gives us:

1. We know Sharp has less 9.7" orders and more 7.9" orders.
2. Nothing.

There could be like a thousand reasons why the production has shifted, cannibalism seems the most logic cause, and this was to be expected. Second, seasonal change inheritely leads to order cuts. So I don't think there's anything new in this story.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:14 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Windows held a monopoly over the desktop/laptop segment (and still does) for decades with a closed platform. Open/Closed as nothing to do with it.
Maybe I'm in a different dimension; but back home, Windows has never been a closed environment.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:15 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
No hard facts, unnamed sources, zero context, pure assumption. I'd hardly call this news.
I don't disagree with you. But the fact remains that the stock market pays attention to reports originating with major wire services like Reuters.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:18 AM   #37
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I still find it funny that the product Jobs said nobody wanted it stealing the tablet show at Apple by most accounts. Even though Mini is not for me at this point, I'm still happy that Apple is giving the customer the choice. Now if they could only do the same with the iPhone...
That isn't what he said at all. He said that the cheap 7" tablets of late 2010 were dead in the water, which they were.

Also, I find it odd that the same crowd that harps on how much easier to read a 5" phone display is than a 4" phone display dismisses the difference between a 16x9 7" display and a 4x3 7.85" display. There's a lot more room in the latter.

I have a 3rd generation iPad and an iPad mini. Ever since I got the latter, I hardly use the former. Once the Retina version comes out, I wouldn't be surprised if the larger iPad becomes more of a niche product. The price is right, the lighter weight is almost perfect, and there is still plenty of room on the screen such that it is easy to use.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:19 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by japanime View Post
Will be interesting to see how the stock market reacts to this latest news.
Based on previous events, I'd say the reaction will be highly irrational.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by polbit View Post
I still find it funny that the product Jobs said nobody wanted it stealing the tablet show at Apple by most accounts.
This was the same Steve Jobs who insisted that there would never, ever be a video iPod.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:22 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by TC03 View Post
It's unbelievable how weak these rumours are. The rumour is basically saying: "We've heard about iPad display cuts, but we don't know why nor how much. LG and Samsung do not have such cutdowns, which doesn't really make sense, so we basically know jack. Still, we think it's worth mentioning on Reuters so the whole world can misinterpret our story."

What the hell is this?
Yet most people here seem to make a lot of assumptions based on these weak rumors.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:23 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by WiiDSmoker View Post
Maybe I'm in a different dimension; but back home, Windows has never been a closed environment.
Windows is a proprietary operating system that is controlled by a single vendor.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:25 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Well, let's assume this is true. Let's say display production is equal between suppliers, LG, Samsung, Sharp all having 1/3 (which is a ludicrous proposition as they have different manufacturing capacity). If Apple cuts Sharp, but keeps Samsung/LG numbers normal, they've still cut their orders 33%. That's quite a big margin.

So even with Samsung and LG being oblivious to cuts in orders, Apple has decreased its orders by quite the margin. People are saying the iPad Mini numbers are too blame, that the iPad Mini is cannibalizing iPad sales. That's expected. Is it 33% of it ? That would be big.
So far the market seems to be shrugging at the news. Apple is off a couple of bucks, but basically hovering around $500 as it has been all week. Next Wednesday afternoon will be important, both for the actual sales, and Apple's forecast for next quarter. At the rate Apple is going, I wouldn't be surprised to see a blowout quarter and the stock take a hit because they go conservative on their guidance again.

The market has priced in some cannibalization. Could it be 33%? Possibly, but then again, Tim Cook did say (as did SJ before him) it is better that they cannibalize their own products before someone else does. AI reported that the Nexus 7 outsold the iPad in Japan, but that wasn't picked up by anyone else, and could just have been unsubstantiated noise. That said, it is clearly a popular device, and so arguably the iPad mini came just in the nick of time.

I have a 3rd gen and an iPad mini, and I clearly see why the mini is popular. I hardly use my 3rd gen anymore. The mini is lighter and easier to carry. All it needs is a Retina Display and it would be nearly perfect for me.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:27 AM   #42
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That isn't what he said at all. He said that the cheap 7" tablets of late 2010 were dead in the water, which they were.
No, you're completely wrong, see my post on page 1. What he said was that 10 inch was the minimum size to make great tablet apps :

Quote:
Apple has done expensive user testing on touch interfaces over many years, and we really understand this stuff.

There are clear limits of how close you can place physical elements on a touch screen, before users cannot reliably tap, flick or pinch them. This is one of the key reasons we think the 10-inch screen size is the minimum size required to create great tablet apps.


--Steve Jobs
That means he would find the iPad Mini to not be a platform where its possible to make great tablet apps.

People are always so quick to rewrite what Steve said. Good thing the Internet remembers quotes. Don't rewrite history, Steve wasn't always right about everything! Steve is allowed to be wrong.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:29 AM   #43
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9.7 inch iPad is soon history.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:29 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by vmachiel View Post
This just in: Infinite growth impossible: Wall street keeps struggling with this reality.
The market (and indeed, the media) are only really interested in change. When you're booming they're interested, when you're failing they're interested. When you're holding your own, you're effectively off the radar; regardless of how big or small you are.

If you're a journalist or analyst, it's in your interests to highlight any positive or negative change as much as possible. "Same again for Apple" won't get you many hits. Indeed, even look at how the share prices are graphed. If they were plotted on a linear graph, most shares would look pretty static, which won't get you much attention. Instead, they're plotted so that 1% rise & falls look like massive peaks and troughs, thus generating more interest.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:29 AM   #45
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And investors will overreact once again.
Well that's part of the game and to be fair about it, this very forum is the most overreactive set of "humans" known to man.

"A distance friend of a friend of a friend of a source SAID they HEARD that Apple MIGHT be giving up on electronics devices SOMEDAY".

After reading that this forum (AKA armchair CEO's) starts acting like whiny babies and stomping their feet saying, "How dare you Apple for ruining my life".
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:30 AM   #46
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This was the same Steve Jobs who insisted that there would never, ever be a video iPod.
Yeah. Steve said a lot of things.

He said nobody wanted to watch video on a tiny 2" screen. At least until the iPod with video came out.

He said nobody wanted flash mp3 players with small amounts of storage. At least until the iPod shuffle came out.

He said that web-based apps would suit the iPhone and iPod touch just fine, and that a developer SDK wasn't necessary.

He also said "You're holding it wrong."
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:32 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
So far the market seems to be shrugging at the news.
Of course, this is so light on details, it would probably be carried off by the smallest breeze on a windless hot summer day.

We don't know :

- Sharp's percentage of Apple's display orders
- Sharp's usual display shipments in units vs their "minimum to keep the line operational".

Without those numbers, it makes it hard to see if Sharp even is a player in the Jan-Mar quarter normally. Maybe Apple just needed them for the ramp up since the iPad Retina was introduced and as fallen back to more normal demand where Samsung/LG is sufficient.

This is a reactionary piece trying to dig more crap up ahead of earnings following the iPhone 5 order news at the beginning of the week. Hit based journalism.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Yet most people here seem to make a lot of assumptions based on these weak rumors.
Count the posts making assumptions, count the post discussing the famous Steve Jobs "10 inch is the minimum size quote" and count the posts saying this article is complete crap.

I would so "most people" aren't doing what you're accusing them of doing, drop the paranoia a few levels.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:33 AM   #48
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Reuters reports that Sharp, one of Apple's primary display panel partners for its mobile devices, has slashed production of iPad displays at one of its plants. Sources did not indicate the reasons for the dramatic cut, but it appears to be a combination of a shift in consumer interest to the smaller iPad mini and a natural seasonal slowdown coming out of the holiday quarter.Apple also obtains iPad display panels from Samsung and LG Display, with a source at Samsung indicating that there has been no production cut there and a source at LG suggesting that any production cuts there were in line with typical seasonality.

Reports of cutbacks in iPad component production come close on the heels of reports that Apple has slashed orders for iPhone 5 parts, although there have been significant questions about the figures cited in those reports and whether the decline actually represents a weakening of demand.

Article Link: Sharp Reportedly Cutting iPad Display Production Amid Shift in Consumer Interest to iPad Mini
I already replaced both of our iPads (mine and wife's) with the Mini. And I got the 3rd Mini for my daughter. The full size iPad is just too big and heavy.
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:33 AM   #49
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Saturated market?

I hope we see some price drops or at least the removal of a 16 gb iPad but 32, 64, & 128 for the same $

I read elsewhere that the nexus 7 is outselling the iPad mini in other countries
the ipad mini screen size is so much better imo. The extra screen real estate does make a large difference in usability. The only reason the nexus would sell better is price, I would never buy one if they were priced like the ipad mini. That said an android tablet with the form factor of the mini would be great especially with a higher res display. I actually think the display on the ipad 2 looks better than the ipad mini despite it being lower ppi on the ipad 2 (I have had an ipad 1, 2 and 3 and mini)
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Old Jan 18, 2013, 09:34 AM   #50
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MacRumors is really digging now for link bait.
Apple has 3 suppliers. So they dial back on one and the iPad is dead?
Maybe they got a better price elsewhere. Who knows.

This is little better than reading tea leaves.

Of course there are ups and downs of component production. After 4 months of all out I would expect iPad sales to dial down, especially with Christmas over.
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