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Old Jan 20, 2013, 10:40 PM   #51
EPiCDiNGO
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After my professional analysis I can confirm that the damage done to this 2012 iMac was done by impact damage. Possibly by a small ball or other round object.

Case closed.........
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 10:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by EPiCDiNGO View Post
After my professional analysis I can confirm that the damage done to this 2012 iMac was done by impact damage. Possibly by a small ball or other round object.

Case closed.........
Professional.

You can clearly see in both pictures from the front and side they are v shaped and start at the edge and from where it touches the aluminium, this is not impact, or the OP tried to open the iMac, which I myself think he did not or the repair was done badly.
It just after the first repair and I say it's due to the repair or stress in the glass, manufacturing problems also do occur.

This is not impact imho.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:00 PM   #53
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Professional.

You can clearly see in both pictures from the front and side they are v shaped and start at the edge and from where it touches the aluminium, this is not impact, or the OP tried to open the iMac, which I myself think he did not or the repair was done badly.
It just after the first repair and I say it's due to the repair or stress in the glass, manufacturing problems also do occur.

This is not impact imho.
That is why I wrote my story about the deer. Laminated glass is a different type of break then regular glass. I agree with your guess.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:41 PM   #54
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I feel for you, I really do!
And I totally believe what you are saying.

After a second exchange. I am constantly thinking something is going to go wrong. Found a scratch on screen but decided to live with it!!

It is only my opinion. But it could be down to how the screen was glued on. I.e. maybe not enough glue where chip has occurred and somehow the cold has made this happen!

You mention PC world. If this is where you bought your mac from I wouldn't worry. They are brilliant when it comes to problems like this. I would take it back there before you visit the apple store.
Early last year I bought a blackberry playbook from them. Had so many problems with it. Exchanged countless times. Six months down the line they offered me an ipad. Never looked back since!

Good luck.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:13 AM   #55
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Everyone is talking about glass, but it is made of polycarbonate. That has different characteristics.
I hope that TS can get a new panel from Apple. He was just unlucky.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:17 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Gogol View Post
Everyone is talking about glass, but it is made of polycarbonate. That has different characteristics.
I hope that TS can get a new panel from Apple. He was just unlucky.
Link to a site which says it is polycarbonate, otherwise it is glass.

Prove it is polycarbonate.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:27 AM   #57
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if the screen is polycarbonate , then environmental stress or even cleaning the screen with a liquid or chemical could be the culprit . I was always under the assumption that the screen is glass .
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:32 AM   #58
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if the screen is polycarbonate , then environmental stress or even cleaning the screen with a liquid or chemical could be the culprit . I was always under the assumption that the screen is glass .
It is glass, the above poster-Gogol- is wrong and probably can not find a link to back up his claims.
I can easily link to a site which says it's glass.

iFixit teardown: Apple makes new iMac as hard as ever to repair

Quote:
Most notable is how Apple has fused the glass front panel and the LCD together (instead of attaching them with magnets), forcing iFixit to use not only a heat gun to remove the adhesive, but also low-tech guitar picks to pry the two pieces apart. The result is that the original tape is ruined, requiring replacement adhesive to reseal the machine.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:56 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Gogol View Post
Everyone is talking about glass, but it is made of polycarbonate. That has different characteristics.
I hope that TS can get a new panel from Apple. He was just unlucky.
It is 100% glass. Back in work today and spoken to someone with a degree that relates to this kind of stuff and glass especially tempered glass if it has a microscopic flaw within it can manifest itself later when put under presssure. Also because I now need to backup everything before taking to apple realised that when I plugged in my external hard drive around the back of the machine (which is a real pain) I realised that I was touching the edge of the glass with my thumb when rotating the unit. Perhaps I put pressure on an area of weakness, that cracked later? I plugged in iPad lead and iPhone lead evening before I discovered the crack. (Cue, the trolls saying it is my fault then)
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:02 AM   #60
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It is 100% glass. Back in work today and spoken to someone with a degree that relates to this kind of stuff and glass especially tempered glass if it has a microscopic flaw within it can manifest itself later when put under presssure. Also because I now need to backup everything before taking to apple realised that when I plugged in my external hard drive around the back of the machine (which is a real pain) I realised that I was touching the edge of the glass with my thumb when rotating the unit. Perhaps I put pressure on an area of weakness, that cracked later? I plugged in iPad lead and iPhone lead evening before I discovered the crack. (Cue, the trolls saying it is my fault then)
I would hardly say it was your fault if that is the case. you should be able to handle your iMac without it breaking especially when all the plugins are in the back . unless you have the grip of a vice . I hope you are able to replace it .
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:53 AM   #61
AstroKeith
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Lightbulb An optical engineer's view

I'm thinking this 2nd unit isn't a repair of the first. The OP said he got vouchers from the insurance company to buy a new one.

I have seen this kind of damage a lot in my profession (optical manufacturing). I would want to see the lump that fell off first, but it is almost certainly due to a "nick" in the front edge of the glass. Whether this was introduced at manufacture, installation or that evening may never be known. Therefore there is a reasonable case that it happened before the OP took delivery (cant be proved otherwise)

The thermal cycle that evening from "on" to dead of night, was probably 30 degC? Has anyone measured the glass temperature when operating? I'm guessing 40C. 30deg C is easily enough to propagate a small nick into this kind of stress fracture. This may be compounded by the new assembly method of glueing the glass to an aluminium case - differential expansion will cause a gently bending pressure.

The "nick" could have been very small, and may have been done by the OP by accident. However this raises whether the product is fit for purpose if it breaks that easily, especially when you have to go around the back to access sockets.

Fortunately the OP lives here in the UK, where consumer protection is quite good and I would say he has a good chance of success. Not with Apple but the vendor.

Good Luck
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:25 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
Professional.

You can clearly see in both pictures from the front and side they are v shaped and start at the edge and from where it touches the aluminium, this is not impact, or the OP tried to open the iMac, which I myself think he did not or the repair was done badly.
It just after the first repair and I say it's due to the repair or stress in the glass, manufacturing problems also do occur.

This is not impact imho.
Actually - if you look to the far right edge you can make out an impact mark (where a small piece of glass has broken away completely).

Sorry OP, but I'm also calling impact damage. Whether it was you, or someone in your household who hasn't told you the full truth, you're either going to have to come up with another 200 excess, or pay Apple for a new screen.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:34 AM   #63
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Actually - if you look to the far right edge you can make out an impact mark (where a small piece of glass has broken away completely).

Sorry OP, but I'm also calling impact damage. Whether it was you, or someone in your household who hasn't told you the full truth, you're either going to have to come up with another 200 excess, or pay Apple for a new screen.
200 Only, if he has to pay for it I guess it's quite a bit more than 200.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:41 AM   #64
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200 Only, if he has to pay for it I guess it's quite a bit more than 200.
The excess is to his insurance company to claim for accidental damage.

Which he shouldn't need to do given the 2 options open to him

1. Apple replace
2. Pc world replace. It's their responsibility to prove it wasn't a manufacturing fault. Not the OP's responsibility to prove it was.


I don't think a piece of missing glass means anything. It could have just fallen out
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:44 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by oililymad View Post
1. Apple replace
2. Pc world replace. It's their responsibility to prove it wasn't a manufacturing fault. Not the OP's responsibility to prove it was.


I don't think a piece of missing glass means anything. It could have just fallen out
I think PC World could (and probably would) argue that there's impact damage there, and if it went to small claims court, short of having CCTV which proved it smashed itself, I doubt you'd win.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:50 AM   #66
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I think PC World could (and probably would) argue that there's impact damage there, and if it went to small claims court, short of having CCTV which proved it smashed itself, I doubt you'd win.
Uk consumer law says company have to prove it was not damaged at time of purchase. Not consumer prove they didn't damage it. Photo may not show it but The casing has no damage whatsoever.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:57 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by philmed1008 View Post
Uk consumer law says company have to prove it was not damaged at time of purchase. Not consumer prove they didn't damage it. Photo may not show it but The casing has no damage whatsoever.
Exactly, an impact would cause damage there too, so in my opinion you have a case and will get it replaced free of charge.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:04 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by philmed1008 View Post
Uk consumer law says company have to prove it was not damaged at time of purchase. Not consumer prove they didn't damage it. Photo may not show it but The casing has no damage whatsoever.
I understand UK consumer law - and their proof enough is that it wasn't smashed when you bought it. I'm just being realistic with you - I could sit here and say "Yeah you'll get it replaced no problem" - but that wouldn't be any use! They could also argue that the impact mark is on the very edge of the glass:

Let's say it was a manufacturing defect, and your thumb caused it. That might work if you pushed against the glass 1cm in from the edge, since there's a gap behind. That would, however, leave an impact mark where your finger was, in from the edge (i.e. like this: <| (excuse the ASCII art).

However, the impact mark here is on the edge. Say there was a manufacturing defect, and you pressed right against the edge. If you push a piece of broken glass against a piece of metal (the iMac's casing) - nothing will happen, since it is impossible to "split" the glass down the crack (you can test this by placing a piece of cracked glass on a flat surface. No matter how hard you push on the crack, it wont break further. Put a piece of foam (i.e. some air) under it, and try again - it will crack.

Plus, if you look closely at the mark - there is a V shape crack. There are also 3 surface chips on differing sides of these cracks, all originating from the "point of impact" on the edge of the glass. However, these surface chips cannot occur from you pushing on the glass (that would cause surface chips *on the other side*).

Like I said, I'm just being realistic and giving you the perspective of someone from the other side so you can realistically weigh up your options.

----------

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Originally Posted by justperry View Post
Exactly, an impact would cause damage there too, so in my opinion you have a case and will get it replaced free of charge.
You can break the glass without denting the aluminium. If it was hit flat on you wouldn't see any marks in the aluminium.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:22 AM   #69
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I think PC World could (and probably would) argue that there's impact damage there, and if it went to small claims court, short of having CCTV which proved it smashed itself, I doubt you'd win.
The OP should just take the mac back to pc world and tell them it was like this when he took it out of box.
Im pretty sure he will have no problem!
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:57 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by philmed1008 View Post
It is 100% glass. Back in work today and spoken to someone with a degree that relates to this kind of stuff and glass especially tempered glass if it has a microscopic flaw within it can manifest itself later when put under presssure.
I second the flaw problem in tempered glass, but tempered glass cracks open (completly) in an infinit amount of unsharp, cubic shaped pieces of glass. Yours seams splintered ... + it's only locally. So it's definitely laminated glass. But glass is a pretty unpredictable material so it's definitely possible that your iMac suffered from a crack caused by thermal stress around an imperfection.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gogol View Post
Everyone is talking about glass, but it is made of polycarbonate. That has different characteristics.
I hope that TS can get a new panel from Apple. He was just unlucky.
That would mean the panel would "melt" when warmed with a heat gun (the only way to soften the thermoplastic adhesive )
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:08 AM   #71
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Uk consumer law says company have to prove it was not damaged at time of purchase. Not consumer prove they didn't damage it. Photo may not show it but The casing has no damage whatsoever.
While I definitely hope and feel that Apple will take care of you, that UK law doesn't make a lick of sense. Unless a company cuts open the packaging for every product they sell to a customer there's no way to prove that something wasn't damaged at time of purchase. That's a stupid law against private and public busineses. If that's the case then the customer should be required to sign a waiver saying they assume all responsibility unless the package is opened in front of them, that includes products that are delivered to them.


On top of that, if a customer doesn't have to prove they damaged something then that means that a customer can damage a product by accident or on purpose and companies would be required to exchange the product regardless if the customer was negligent. That's stupid. I'd like to see that UK law in writing.

Last edited by HenryDJP; Jan 21, 2013 at 09:25 AM.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:23 AM   #72
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Exactly, an impact would cause damage there too, so in my opinion you have a case and will get it replaced free of charge.
I don't think so . I doubt the case would get any damage from an impact from let's say a door knob or a ball. if it fell again then it could be possible but depends on how it lands.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:18 AM   #73
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While I definitely hope and feel that Apple will take care of you, that UK law doesn't make a lick of sense. Unless a company cuts open the packaging for every product they sell to a customer there's no way to prove that something wasn't damaged at time of purchase. That's a stupid law against private and public busineses. If that's the case then the customer should be required to sign a waiver saying they assume all responsibility unless the package is opened in front of them, that includes products that are delivered to them.


On top of that, if a customer doesn't have to prove they damaged something then that means that a customer can damage a product by accident or on purpose and companies would be required to exchange the product regardless if the customer was negligent. That's stupid. I'd like to see that UK law in writing.
Google sale of goods act.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:31 AM   #74
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A couple of years ago I woke up to a broken kindle. Pc world took it back. No quibble. It looked like it had been accidentally damaged but I knew I hadn't damaged it. The screen had a crack under the first layer

Anyway. They didn't argue.

A few weeks later one of my offspring admitted to standing on it. So although I never would have tried to get a freebie out of them for something that was my fault. They still changed it with no problem

I know it's a 160 product versus a 2000 one. But. It just shows you how seriously UK companies take the law.

Good luck OP. let us know how it goes.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:34 AM   #75
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I don't think it would be that easy in the US . Companies love saying No ! this side of the pond.
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