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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:37 PM   #26
yg17
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The way I see it is when you immigrate to another country, you're there a few years on a trial period, to make sure you learn the laws and culture and become integrated into your new community. Then you can earn your citizenship.

When somebody shows up, and just thinks they can start enforcing their own rules on the street, or has no willingness to become part of their new community, they need to be deported.
Please tell me that you don't believe that they give you citizenship the second you show up at the airport....

Gaining citizenship is a long and expensive process, and yes, if you commit a crime before you get citizenship, your chances of getting it are shot to hell.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:39 PM   #27
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Please tell me that you don't believe that they give you citizenship the second you show up at the airport....

Gaining citizenship is a long and expensive process, and yes, if you commit a crime before you get citizenship, your chances of getting it are shot to hell.
No I don't believe that, which is why I mentioned that you are on a trial period
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:41 PM   #28
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A couple of d*ckheads walking around causing trouble. It's nothing compared to the amount of home grown Brits that patrol the streets in droves giving people a kicking because of the way they look. At least these guys are taking alcohol off the streets so I rate them above chavs, spides, provos etc who just want to glass you out of spite.

I remember being in Holywood in the mid 90s when a group came up us and told us all to say we loved some footy team. I wouldn't repeat anything to the twats and they walked on in a fit. Half a minute later I got a boot in the back by one of the cowardly scum.

That was life in N Ireland. I could tell stories like that all day long. Not a Muslim would be mentioned in any of them.

Scum are scum, their religion is irrelevant. Videos like these only fuel the hatred and xenophobia of closet racists.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:42 PM   #29
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No I don't believe that, which is why I mentioned that you are on a trial period
And if, as I suspect, these people are all British-born, what then?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:42 PM   #30
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And if, as I suspect, these people are all British-born, what then?
Put them in jail or fine them, and increase police presence in their areas
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:46 PM   #31
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Put them in jail or fine them, and increase police presence in their areas
I thought you recommended deportation.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:48 PM   #32
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I thought you recommended deportation.
For the ones that aren't British citizens. I actually recommended both.

Is that clear now?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:49 PM   #33
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Is that clear now?
Pellucid.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:51 PM   #34
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Pellucid.
Great. What do you think should be done? Do you agree with what I've said?
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:54 PM   #35
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Broadly, though legal action could be a nightmare. The leaders of the local mosques need to be involved, too.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:55 PM   #36
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Broadly, though legal action could be a nightmare. The leaders of the local mosques need to be involved, too.
Yeah, I think the question is how to get the community leaders involved though.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:57 PM   #37
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Pellucid.
No offense (to anyone)... but I bet you're bored out of your mind, or perhaps it's a very VERY slow day at MR...

Are you really still arguing with the dude whose opening idea was this?

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They should just start rounding these people up and deporting them before they actually have enough votes to implement Shaira LAw.
Have you heard about Netflix?

cheers!
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 05:59 PM   #38
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I'd be interested to know what they could be charged with.
Disturbing the peace is universal in the UK, I'm not sure about vandalism, I think its on a regional basis.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 06:00 PM   #39
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No offense (to anyone)... but I bet you're bored out of your mind, or perhaps it's a very VERY slow day at MR...

Are you really still arguing with the dude whose opening idea was this?



Have you heard about Netflix?

cheers!
It was a tongue in cheek comment aimed at people who think that Muslims are going to come take over America.

I can definitely see now that it was far too subtle. My apologies. But I do stand by what I said about deporting or fine/jailing people who blatantly oppose the law.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 06:01 PM   #40
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One thing that's not even clear from the video is where was this at? I think it's near a Mosque, but what I can't tell is if they're on public streets or on the Mosque's property. If it's the latter, that's private property and they have every right to tell them to get lost.

Since all we have is a crappy cell phone video that, for all we know, could've been staged because everyone has an agenda, we'll never know.
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Old Jan 20, 2013, 06:03 PM   #41
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No offense (to anyone)... but I bet you're bored out of your mind, or perhaps it's a very VERY slow day at MR...

Are you really still arguing with the dude whose opening idea was this?
To be honest, I was only agreeing that legal action needed to be taken. Deportation is (a) mostly irrelevant and (b) entirely disproportionate.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 04:24 PM   #42
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Bing!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ja...police-arrests
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:56 AM   #43
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Of course I won't say all Muslims are sexist, but after reading this Newsweek article: In The Land of Invisible Women, it smacks you in the face that the Middle East is extremely oppressive and sexist against women. I understand it can be argued that this attitude is tribal/cultural. Unfortunately most of these people are Muslims and these attitudes seem to be imbedded in their religion/culture. It's all mixed together.

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In a remote and dusty village of mud huts, I meet Aisha. She is 12 and recently married. She did not enjoy her wedding night. “It hurt a lot,” she says of her first sexual experience. “And he is old and fat.”

Her husband is not actually old and fat. But at 30, he is considerably older than Aisha, who was part of a deal arranged by her parents: Aisha married her husband so that her sister could marry his brother. Aisha was nothing but a bargaining tool.

As she tells me this story, another tiny village girl appears, unveiled. She is extraordinarily beautiful and wearing tribal dress. She stares curiously at us outsiders, and I look back, with the terrible thought that this lovely child will soon be bartered off like a stockyard animal.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:40 AM   #44
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Of course I won't say all Muslims are sexist, but after reading this Newsweek article ...
Are Muslim cultures overall more sexist? Sure.

But look at two debates—healthcare and guns—we've had recently in the U.S. In both these issues we can look to other western industrialized nations and see that they are affecting policies that result in better outcomes that save lives and improve conditions for their citizens.

Yet when faced with these facts a common response is that the United States is unique (what nation isn't ) and that what works in those other countries can't be applied to us.

Now I don't believe that.

I believe that we should look to other nations and be inspired by their success to achieve the similar results.

I'm just struck by the notion that if we applied that same "we are unique" philosophy to other nations, then we lose the right to compare the successes of our country and expect others to take steps towards realizing them as well.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:45 AM   #45
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Are Muslim cultures overall more sexist? Sure.

But look at two debates—healthcare and guns—we've had recently in the U.S. In both these issues we can look to other western industrialized nations and see that they are affecting policies that result in better outcomes that save lives and improve conditions for their citizens.

Yet when faced with these facts a common response is that the United States is unique (what nation isn't ) and that what works in those other countries can't be applied to us.

Now I don't believe that.

I believe that we should look to other nations and be inspired by their success to achieve the similar results.

I'm just struck by the notion that if we applied that same "we are unique" philosophy to other nations, then we lose the right to compare the successes of our country and expect others to take steps towards realizing them as well.
The problem is that women's rights is pretty clear cut. Gun ownership and healthcare don't have right or wrong answers. Opinions on both sides have equally valid points.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:50 AM   #46
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The problem is that women's rights is pretty clear cut. Gun ownership and healthcare don't have right or wrong answers. Opinions on both sides have equally valid points.
Body counts are not clear enough?

Life expectancy is not clear enough?

One thing that is pretty clear cut is that Americans will go to great lengths to avoid fixing their problems while expecting it of others.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:52 AM   #47
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Soon POTUS will bring it to a neighborhood by you...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:54 AM   #48
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Are Muslim cultures overall more sexist? Sure.

But look at two debates—healthcare and guns—we've had recently in the U.S. In both these issues we can look to other western industrialized nations and see that they are affecting policies that result in better outcomes that save lives and improve conditions for their citizens.

Yet when faced with these facts a common response is that the United States is unique (what nation isn't ) and that what works in those other countries can't be applied to us.

Now I don't believe that.

I believe that we should look to other nations and be inspired by their success to achieve the similar results.

I'm just struck by the notion that if we applied that same "we are unique" philosophy to other nations, then we lose the right to compare the successes of our country and expect others to take steps towards realizing them as well.
The "we are unique" response is usually by those who don't want to consider other countries successes if it means reducing a liberty in some fashion.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:56 AM   #49
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The "we are unique" response is usually by those who don't want to consider other countries successes if it means reducing a liberty in some fashion.
How does universal healthcare reduce a liberty?

How would greater rights for women in the Mid East reduce a liberty?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:57 AM   #50
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Soon POTUS will bring it to a neighborhood by you...
The Kenyan variety of Sharia law is particularly heinous.
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