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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:07 PM   #51
Shrink
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Originally Posted by jayducharme View Post
Whoa! Wait a minute! You forgot about this:

Image
Happily, I had forgotten about that thing. Now you have gone and made me remember it.

Certainly the creator of that...eh...glorious piece of ...ah..hardware is someone I will rush to the convention to meet and to listen to his other brilliant ideas.

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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:09 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by ShawnKing View Post
I would say it was "worthless the way IDG keeps running it as if Apple was still there." The show runners had an opportunity to change/update/reinvent the show when Apple initially left but squandered it and are now playing catch up (and doing it poorly) to the CES iLounge Pavilion in terms of vendors, size and attendance.

To be fair, lots of new companies have been added, too. But there's no doubt that the attendance of press, exhibitors and showgoers has dropped of dramatically in the past three years.
The bigger names have left and it's turned into a bunch of crappy iPhone accessory vendors much like the 2007 show was when they could have called it iPod World (they did a better job of scaling the number of off the boat knock off Chinese crap accessory stands in 2008 and 2009).

Maybe if they didn't charge insane amounts to vendors, they'd think about returning. $1000 for shared wifi for the week? $15,000 to rent a 42" TV (no that's not a typo, a VCR can be had for only $200/week). $800 just for the carpet (more than double that if you want slightly thicker carpet). $1200 for electrical hookup. $500 for a phone line to run credit cards. That doesn't include the booth space or paying the union guys to haul your stuff in (you aren't allowed to do that and you much also pay them to set it up as you aren't allowed to fold out your own little trade show stand). It's insane.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:38 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post

I guess he just wasn't taking any of his other "acting" jobs seriously, and that is why he has, up to this point, displayed no discernible acting talent.

You ever see the butterfly effect? He did a really good job in it.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:49 PM   #54
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@Pentad : You are _SO_ off the main point or you just didn't get it at all. Also, you apparently haven't really understood the real goal and purpose of a CEO and what Steve Jobs did for Apple.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:00 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
You ever see the butterfly effect? He did a really good job in it.
I do recall seeing it (or at least part of it)

Let's just say that, FOR ME, comparing Kutcher to other actors of quality, both current and in the more classic movies...I find him woefully lacking.

But, hey, what do I know. I have a preference, in general, for movies of the 30's, 40's and early 50's. And while there are current actors whose work I very much enjoy...Kutcher isn't one of them.

We'll just agree to disagree in this one...
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:15 PM   #56
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Even though Apple won't be there I'm so looking forward to going to MW. I've gone every year for the last 10 years. I've seen celebs there but I hope to see Ashton as well. It's nice to live 10 minutes away from SF.

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Originally Posted by Morshu9001 View Post
They're going with "jOBS"!? WTF is that name?


Will.i.am, the guy who "made" that hideous iPhone accessory... with plans for future gadgets. What other product is he going to horribly screw up?
While I echo your feelings about Will.I.AM, I have to say that celebs that show up are generally big Mac heads especially since the Mac is the preferred platform for artists studio recordings. Still not sure why MW is even advertising these celebs. They must have a lower amount of attendees this year. They've never advertised them before.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:31 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
I'm not clear why that would be the case. We are talking about Ashton Kutcher and Josh Gad (whoever he is). Actors of no discernible talent or history of performances in films of any note.
Josh Gad was the breakout star of The Book of Mormon on Broadway - he certainly has some talent.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 06:40 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Shrink View Post
So Ashton Kutcher is taking the role seriously!! Well, that makes all the difference in the world!!

Now he can tap into that deep wellspring of acting talent...like early Brando or De Niro.

I guess he just wasn't taking any of his other "acting" jobs seriously, and that is why he has, up to this point, displayed no discernible acting talent.

Envy. - Accusation withdrawn.

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Originally Posted by Pentad View Post
Actually, you are suffering from what is called the James Randi effect. It is where people remember only the hits and not the misses. Jobs was probably around 50%..maybe a bit lower on what he was 'accurate' with.

Unlike most here, I have no emotional attachment to Jobs or Apple. I really do like my MBPr and OS X, but this is because a team of people worked on it and -sadly- Jobs probably took the credit.

Before you spill kool-aid all over yourself trying to rip this post apart, take a very honest, objective look at Jobs, his life, and his accomplishments. I think you will find the following:

-He was more wrong that you think - start @ 1975 and go to the end of his life.

-He was a terrible human being to other people including his own family - *READ* about him, not just the glowing media articles, READ about him.

-He stole many ideas from his partners, workers, and friends.

-He was narcissistic which always hurt him - his health being a good example.

-He was terrible at business - this video about Next and Steve Jobs is astonishing. The only person in that entire room who understood the reality was Joanna Hoffman (she left shortly after the video). Everything that Steve said in that video was dead wrong. Not just wrong, like I think it might rain tomorrow, but wrong about technology, the business, price, and the company.

Why Ross Perot ever got involved with Jobs is beyond me.

You might argue that hindsight is 20/20 but listen to what Jobs says in the video. I find it hard that nobody sitting there just didn't get up and walk out during his first outline:

GOAL: Create a new OS, computer (hardware), and software that is exponentially better than current systems in 18 months with a total investment of $7 million dollars using 30 or so people.

The only person who was smart enough to see reality was Joanna Hoffman. She mentions the unrealistic goals of the situation in the video but is shot down by jobs. (She did leave shortly after)

Honestly, looking at the cost of the Mac and development time, how could anyone in that room think 18 months was realistic?

Finally, Gates has done much more for humanity than Jobs ever did. Creating an iPod so you can listen to Rebecca Black is not helping the world at large. Gates and his foundation have really contributed to making the world a better place.

Jobs? Well, he refused to join Warren Buffet's "Giving Pledge", he ended philanthropy at Apple and I honestly don't know of any charity work he did. I don't think he did any...if you have an example list it with sources.

When Gates dies, do you think he'll receive the same kind of adulation that Jobs received? Probably, not. Yet, he has really tried to make a difference in the years since Microsoft. Atonement? Perhaps, but at the very least he is making a difference.

Think different, indeed...

-P
Gates is giving his children $10 million each and donating the rest of his money to charity.

Last edited by MrDc2; Jan 21, 2013 at 06:43 PM. Reason: Statement withdrawn
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 07:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by funkboy77 View Post
Josh Gad was the breakout star of The Book of Mormon on Broadway - he certainly has some talent.
See Post# 35...I'll take your word for it.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:20 PM   #60
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As much damage as Will.i.am is taking, I watched an episode of Top Gear where he was interviewed, and he said that he's gotten all of his relatives, even the distant ones, out of the ghetto with his wealth. He does some douchy stuff, but I don't think that he's a buffoon. I also believe that he used to work at Intel.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:49 PM   #61
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iMac?
iPod?
iPhone?
Then shouldn't it be jObs ?
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 08:52 PM   #62
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Woz should play himself in this movie. With pink feather boa included.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 09:06 PM   #63
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wish i could go to this.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:34 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentad View Post
Actually, you are suffering from what is called the James Randi effect. It is where people remember only the hits and not the misses. Jobs was probably around 50%..maybe a bit lower on what he was 'accurate' with.

Unlike most here, I have no emotional attachment to Jobs or Apple. I really do like my MBPr and OS X, but this is because a team of people worked on it and -sadly- Jobs probably took the credit.

Before you spill kool-aid all over yourself trying to rip this post apart, take a very honest, objective look at Jobs, his life, and his accomplishments. I think you will find the following:

-He was more wrong that you think - start @ 1975 and go to the end of his life.

-He was a terrible human being to other people including his own family - *READ* about him, not just the glowing media articles, READ about him.

-He stole many ideas from his partners, workers, and friends.

-He was narcissistic which always hurt him - his health being a good example.

-He was terrible at business - this video about Next and Steve Jobs is astonishing. The only person in that entire room who understood the reality was Joanna Hoffman (she left shortly after the video). Everything that Steve said in that video was dead wrong. Not just wrong, like I think it might rain tomorrow, but wrong about technology, the business, price, and the company.

Why Ross Perot ever got involved with Jobs is beyond me.

You might argue that hindsight is 20/20 but listen to what Jobs says in the video. I find it hard that nobody sitting there just didn't get up and walk out during his first outline:

GOAL: Create a new OS, computer (hardware), and software that is exponentially better than current systems in 18 months with a total investment of $7 million dollars using 30 or so people.

The only person who was smart enough to see reality was Joanna Hoffman. She mentions the unrealistic goals of the situation in the video but is shot down by jobs. (She did leave shortly after)

Honestly, looking at the cost of the Mac and development time, how could anyone in that room think 18 months was realistic?

Finally, Gates has done much more for humanity than Jobs ever did. Creating an iPod so you can listen to Rebecca Black is not helping the world at large. Gates and his foundation have really contributed to making the world a better place.

Jobs? Well, he refused to join Warren Buffet's "Giving Pledge", he ended philanthropy at Apple and I honestly don't know of any charity work he did. I don't think he did any...if you have an example list it with sources.

When Gates dies, do you think he'll receive the same kind of adulation that Jobs received? Probably, not. Yet, he has really tried to make a difference in the years since Microsoft. Atonement? Perhaps, but at the very least he is making a difference.

Think different, indeed...

-P
And who are you that will judge someone from his personal life and his family state? And how short sighted you are to nick pick small details here and there and not see the big image? So what if he was a terrible individual? So what if he was so eccentric? It is FACT that his obsession to achieve the unachievable has led to innovations in computer industry. Maybe through stolen ideas, maybe through unethical ways but the result counts. Wasn't Edison like that? Taking advantage of people like Tesla? There is no bad and good in society. Friedrich Nietzsche had argued about this so many times. And also nobody is perfect. Jobs had a difficult character but just his vision, taste and will were enough to create things that others didn't.

You are so obsessed with reading about Jobs as if through reading you will ever be able to perceive this person's influence. You believe that you are the wise guy here because you have read his autobiography and some random articles on internet with opinions from people working with him full of inferiority complexes. In the end what have YOU offer to society? Oh wait, nobody will ever know because THERE IS NOTHING to read about you, just another moaning internet persona..
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Last edited by ironsienna; Jan 21, 2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:42 PM   #65
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The real question is..Who's directing this film? A good script and a good director can pull creditable performances from limited actors. A bad script and a bad director can devastate a movie even with great actors and great performances.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:44 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironsienna View Post
And who are you that will judge someone from his personal life and his family state? And how short sighted you are to nick pick small details here and there and not see the big image? So what if he was a terrible individual? So what if he was so eccentric? It is FACT that his obsession to achieve the unachievable has led to innovations in computer industry. Maybe through stolen ideas, maybe through unethical ways but the result counts. Wasn't Edison like that? Taking advantage of people like Tesla?

You are so obsessed with reading about Jobs as if through reading you will ever be able to perceive this person's influence. And in the end what have YOU offer to society? Oh wait, nobody will ever know because THERE IS NOTHING to read about you, just another moaning internet persona..
...For now... you never now what happens next. He might do a better research and some day write a book about the real S. Jobs or who knows?
Anyway, I think his post wasn't to **** on Jobs but to let other people know that there is another side of Jobs that they might not know or understand. The same could be said of many people, including B. Gates.
A lot of people want to paint Jobs as a saint and he wasn't. His company under his supervision did achieved a lot success and changed the industry but there is more than one person to congratulate for that, including one man who seems to now be hated by everyone (Scott Forstall)
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:54 PM   #67
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This film better be good and do Steve's story justice. I hope nothing was rushed.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:03 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentad View Post
Actually, you are suffering from what is called the James Randi effect. It is where people remember only the hits and not the misses. Jobs was probably around 50%..maybe a bit lower on what he was 'accurate' with.

Unlike most here, I have no emotional attachment to Jobs or Apple. I really do like my MBPr and OS X, but this is because a team of people worked on it and -sadly- Jobs probably took the credit.

Before you spill kool-aid all over yourself trying to rip this post apart, take a very honest, objective look at Jobs, his life, and his accomplishments. I think you will find the following:

-He was more wrong that you think - start @ 1975 and go to the end of his life.

-He was a terrible human being to other people including his own family - *READ* about him, not just the glowing media articles, READ about him.

-He stole many ideas from his partners, workers, and friends.

-He was narcissistic which always hurt him - his health being a good example.

-He was terrible at business - this video about Next and Steve Jobs is astonishing. The only person in that entire room who understood the reality was Joanna Hoffman (she left shortly after the video). Everything that Steve said in that video was dead wrong. Not just wrong, like I think it might rain tomorrow, but wrong about technology, the business, price, and the company.

Why Ross Perot ever got involved with Jobs is beyond me.

You might argue that hindsight is 20/20 but listen to what Jobs says in the video. I find it hard that nobody sitting there just didn't get up and walk out during his first outline:

GOAL: Create a new OS, computer (hardware), and software that is exponentially better than current systems in 18 months with a total investment of $7 million dollars using 30 or so people.

The only person who was smart enough to see reality was Joanna Hoffman. She mentions the unrealistic goals of the situation in the video but is shot down by jobs. (She did leave shortly after)

Honestly, looking at the cost of the Mac and development time, how could anyone in that room think 18 months was realistic?

Finally, Gates has done much more for humanity than Jobs ever did. Creating an iPod so you can listen to Rebecca Black is not helping the world at large. Gates and his foundation have really contributed to making the world a better place.

Jobs? Well, he refused to join Warren Buffet's "Giving Pledge", he ended philanthropy at Apple and I honestly don't know of any charity work he did. I don't think he did any...if you have an example list it with sources.

When Gates dies, do you think he'll receive the same kind of adulation that Jobs received? Probably, not. Yet, he has really tried to make a difference in the years since Microsoft. Atonement? Perhaps, but at the very least he is making a difference.

Think different, indeed...

-P
Wow, that was a very long sermon. You're a very judgemental person.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:18 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
This film better be good and do Steve's story justice. I hope nothing was rushed.
The mere fact that this film is being released in 2013 proves that it is somewhat rushed. There isn't enough hindsight to provide a fully factual account of Jobs's life.

This is why I'm excited for Sorkin's version. Capturing three distinct moments in time, with plenty of hindsight to provide an accurate account of the character (Sorkin's specialty).
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:37 AM   #70
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Then shouldn't it be jObs ?
Yes....but that looks even worse. Deciding to use the Apple product naming convention to name a movie is just a bad idea period.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:51 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironsienna View Post
And who are you that will judge someone from his personal life and his family state? And how short sighted you are to nick pick small details here and there and not see the big image? So what if he was a terrible individual? So what if he was so eccentric? It is FACT that his obsession to achieve the unachievable has led to innovations in computer industry. Maybe through stolen ideas, maybe through unethical ways but the result counts. Wasn't Edison like that? Taking advantage of people like Tesla? There is no bad and good in society. Friedrich Nietzsche had argued about this so many times. And also nobody is perfect. Jobs had a difficult character but just his vision, taste and will were enough to create things that others didn't.

You are so obsessed with reading about Jobs as if through reading you will ever be able to perceive this person's influence. You believe that you are the wise guy here because you have read his autobiography and some random articles on internet with opinions from people working with him full of inferiority complexes. In the end what have YOU offer to society? Oh wait, nobody will ever know because THERE IS NOTHING to read about you, just another moaning internet persona..
Ouch.

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Originally Posted by OriginalMacRat View Post
Only because no one brings up his visions that were way off the mark.
We'd be interested to hear about these. Do you have any links?
Most people know, he wasn't a saint, but that's not really the point. Steve is perhaps not admired for his character, but for his many accomplishments. Could we stand that kind of intense scrutiny, and emerge looking 'perfect'? Of course not.

Flawless human beings don't exist. Steve was a fascinating guy, who with his vision, changed the world.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:29 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Pentad View Post
Actually, you are suffering from what is called the James Randi effect. It is where people remember only the hits and not the misses. Jobs was probably around 50%..maybe a bit lower on what he was 'accurate' with.

Unlike most here, I have no emotional attachment to Jobs or Apple. I really do like my MBPr and OS X, but this is because a team of people worked on it and -sadly- Jobs probably took the credit.

Before you spill kool-aid all over yourself trying to rip this post apart, take a very honest, objective look at Jobs, his life, and his accomplishments. I think you will find the following:

-He was more wrong that you think - start @ 1975 and go to the end of his life.

-He was a terrible human being to other people including his own family - *READ* about him, not just the glowing media articles, READ about him.

-He stole many ideas from his partners, workers, and friends.

-He was narcissistic which always hurt him - his health being a good example.

-He was terrible at business - this video about Next and Steve Jobs is astonishing. The only person in that entire room who understood the reality was Joanna Hoffman (she left shortly after the video). Everything that Steve said in that video was dead wrong. Not just wrong, like I think it might rain tomorrow, but wrong about technology, the business, price, and the company.

Why Ross Perot ever got involved with Jobs is beyond me.

You might argue that hindsight is 20/20 but listen to what Jobs says in the video. I find it hard that nobody sitting there just didn't get up and walk out during his first outline:

GOAL: Create a new OS, computer (hardware), and software that is exponentially better than current systems in 18 months with a total investment of $7 million dollars using 30 or so people.

The only person who was smart enough to see reality was Joanna Hoffman. She mentions the unrealistic goals of the situation in the video but is shot down by jobs. (She did leave shortly after)

Honestly, looking at the cost of the Mac and development time, how could anyone in that room think 18 months was realistic?

Finally, Gates has done much more for humanity than Jobs ever did. Creating an iPod so you can listen to Rebecca Black is not helping the world at large. Gates and his foundation have really contributed to making the world a better place.

Jobs? Well, he refused to join Warren Buffet's "Giving Pledge", he ended philanthropy at Apple and I honestly don't know of any charity work he did. I don't think he did any...if you have an example list it with sources.

When Gates dies, do you think he'll receive the same kind of adulation that Jobs received? Probably, not. Yet, he has really tried to make a difference in the years since Microsoft. Atonement? Perhaps, but at the very least he is making a difference.

Think different, indeed...

-P
Your assessment of this video seems highly distorted. Don't know how familiar you are with the saga of Jobs starting Apple then Next then from Next back to Apple. This video is very early, right after he was thrown out of Apple. At this time He just starting to learn how to be a good business man. He was in his early thirties. At the time the Next-Step Open-Step software was IMHO far superior to any flavor of Windows. They were into object oriented programing and using BSD Unix. Next-Step was to become OS X.

Steve Jobs was flawed in many ways, however he was also a very exceptional human being. What he was able to achieve in a relatively short lifespan is far beyond what most accomplished businessmen are able to achieve. No, he was not Jesus or Ghandi in his contributions to humanity. Does he have to be, to be recognized as a great man? Everyone has something different to contribute to the world. It's quite unfair to judge him almost solely by his weakest traits. I admired the man, but didn't expect that he must be a great humanitarian. Choose any man that has walked the earth, and no matter how great they were, you can find human flaws and shortcomings. It is the nature of our species. None are perfect and whatever perfection they do have can be easily discarded if you judge them by their flawed nature. What are your contributions to humanity?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:58 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentad View Post
Actually, you are suffering from what is called the James Randi effect. It is where people remember only the hits and not the misses. Jobs was probably around 50%..maybe a bit lower on what he was 'accurate' with.

Unlike most here, I have no emotional attachment to Jobs or Apple. I really do like my MBPr and OS X, but this is because a team of people worked on it and -sadly- Jobs probably took the credit.

Before you spill kool-aid all over yourself trying to rip this post apart, take a very honest, objective look at Jobs, his life, and his accomplishments. I think you will find the following:

-He was more wrong that you think - start @ 1975 and go to the end of his life.

-He was a terrible human being to other people including his own family - *READ* about him, not just the glowing media articles, READ about him.

-He stole many ideas from his partners, workers, and friends.

-He was narcissistic which always hurt him - his health being a good example.

-He was terrible at business - this video about Next and Steve Jobs is astonishing. The only person in that entire room who understood the reality was Joanna Hoffman (she left shortly after the video). Everything that Steve said in that video was dead wrong. Not just wrong, like I think it might rain tomorrow, but wrong about technology, the business, price, and the company.

Why Ross Perot ever got involved with Jobs is beyond me.

You might argue that hindsight is 20/20 but listen to what Jobs says in the video. I find it hard that nobody sitting there just didn't get up and walk out during his first outline:

GOAL: Create a new OS, computer (hardware), and software that is exponentially better than current systems in 18 months with a total investment of $7 million dollars using 30 or so people.

The only person who was smart enough to see reality was Joanna Hoffman. She mentions the unrealistic goals of the situation in the video but is shot down by jobs. (She did leave shortly after)

Honestly, looking at the cost of the Mac and development time, how could anyone in that room think 18 months was realistic?

Finally, Gates has done much more for humanity than Jobs ever did. Creating an iPod so you can listen to Rebecca Black is not helping the world at large. Gates and his foundation have really contributed to making the world a better place.

Jobs? Well, he refused to join Warren Buffet's "Giving Pledge", he ended philanthropy at Apple and I honestly don't know of any charity work he did. I don't think he did any...if you have an example list it with sources.

When Gates dies, do you think he'll receive the same kind of adulation that Jobs received? Probably, not. Yet, he has really tried to make a difference in the years since Microsoft. Atonement? Perhaps, but at the very least he is making a difference.

Think different, indeed...

-P
You might be right on some aspects, but you're painting a condescending picture of Jobs which is just wrong. Because of his narcissism, his emotional breakdowns and his 'unrealistic' expectations, he managed to get the best out of already excellent working people. You might disapprove of his management skills, but he was a true leader and Apple wouldn't be where they are today without him. Also, you think that Bill Gates makes a difference? What did he invent? NOTHING! He doesn't have the same vision.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:16 AM   #74
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There is a reason Apple stopped officially appearing at Macworld. This movie is only yet another reason keeping Apple away from the event. I just might not watch the movie ever out of respect for Steve Jobs.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 07:52 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by myrtlebee View Post
This film better be good and do Steve's story justice. I hope nothing was rushed.
They coulld do a series of betas.

jOBS...Snow jOBS...Mountain jOBS.
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