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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:01 PM   #376
IJ Reilly
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Originally Posted by Konrad9 View Post
That's how Apple got to where it is.
Hardly. Microsoft's venture into music players flopped. Their first several mobile platforms flopped. Their first tablet venture flopped. They have never made money in their internet division. The Xbox was a net loser for years. And so on. By contrast, the iPod, iPhone and iPad were huge hits and profitable right out of the box.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:10 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Hardly. Microsoft's venture into music players flopped. Their first several mobile platforms flopped. Their first tablet venture flopped. They have never made money in their internet division. The Xbox was a net loser for years. And so on. By contrast, the iPod, iPhone and iPad were huge hits and profitable right out of the box.
nvm, I see what your point is
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:18 PM   #378
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I wish they would have put this out for about 100-200 cheaper. I think at 699 quite a few people would have got it. They dont need to make a huge profit off it they need people to start using windows 8...
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:20 PM   #379
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Originally Posted by Konrad9 View Post
That's how Apple got to where it is.
Apple got to where it is because things they throw against the wall actually do stick.

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Originally Posted by TouchMint.com View Post
They dont need to make a huge profit off it they need people to start using windows 8...
Profit. It's so...yesteryear.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:08 PM   #380
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I wish they would have put this out for about 100-200 cheaper. I think at 699 quite a few people would have got it. They dont need to make a huge profit off it they need people to start using windows 8...
If they did, everyone would buy Surface Pro's instead of OEM brands and the OEM's would be pissed off.

MS can always make up for lower Surface sales through OEM licensing. Meanwhile hardware sales are all the OEM's have
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:14 PM   #381
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What?! People who spend $$$ on apple products all of sudden can't "afford" a surface pro?

Really?

I personally like it, but really a laptop guy so no real use for me besides sitting on the crapper. (My ghetto hp touchpad still does the trick)
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:32 PM   #382
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Usable storage of the 32GB is actually 16GB, and only 45GB of the 64GB model. I know it's a not secret, but it just seems bloated, as we've all experienced with any Microsoft OS.

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-AU/storage
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 09:12 AM   #383
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[QUOTE=LagunaSol;16714068]Apple got to where it is because things they throw against the wall actually do stick.[COLOR="#808080"]

Yeah, cause, you know, Windows isn't used by anyone.

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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Hardly. Microsoft's venture into music players flopped. Their first several mobile platforms flopped. Their first tablet venture flopped. They have never made money in their internet division. The Xbox was a net loser for years. And so on. By contrast, the iPod, iPhone and iPad were huge hits and profitable right out of the box.
You're forgetting the many, many products that Apple has made that sold so poorly they make the Zune look like the Model T.

Edit: The selective memory caused by fanboyism is really quite absurd.

Edit 2: ALso, the Xbox was *DESIGNED* to be a net loser for years. That's how Microsoft got into the console market, but selling at a loss to build up a brand. If you knew anything about the console market, you would know that. But since you prefer talking about things you know nothing about....
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 02:23 PM   #384
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Does anybody else feel that Microsoft should have put an AMD APU inside? Considering AMD makes the CPU for the 360 and newBox, they should be able to get a good deal.

I say this because an APU, to me, is much better for tablets. Why do you think we have the A5/6 processor in the iPad?

I know the graphical performance isn't the with an integrated GPU, but running skyrim on the A10/A8 AMD APUs is something that's incredible.

Also, the price should be $200 lower.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Hardly. Microsoft's venture into music players flopped. Their first several mobile platforms flopped. Their first tablet venture flopped. They have never made money in their internet division. The Xbox was a net loser for years. And so on. By contrast, the iPod, iPhone and iPad were huge hits and profitable right out of the box.
Yeah, but the Xbox 360 had done incredibly well for itself. It beat King Sony. They lost money on purpose to get a good footing. If they ran their other division like Xbox (not necessarily losses) then they would be killing Apple.

Again, we're only looking at now. Not the past or future. Apple could go back to going downhill, and history could call it "The Steve Jobs Company" because only it did well under his direction.

But who knows.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 03:01 PM   #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
Hardly. Microsoft's venture into music players flopped. Their first several mobile platforms flopped. Their first tablet venture flopped. They have never made money in their internet division. The Xbox was a net loser for years. And so on. By contrast, the iPod, iPhone and iPad were huge hits and profitable right out of the box.
The iPod was nothing until hell froze over.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 04:23 PM   #386
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This is what the iPad SHOULD have been, a touch-capable notebook that doubles as a tablet and can run the full version of the host operating system (i.e. in Apple's case, OSX instead of mere iOS). But then I think a touch-screen would be useful on any of the Macbooks out there....well at least for playing Bejeweled.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:00 PM   #387
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When did this become grumpy rumours?

I state a simple MS joke and its like the cockroaches come out
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:20 PM   #388
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The iPod was nothing until hell froze over.
I presume that hell froze over when you no longer needed a firewire equipped Mac to use an iPod?

Nevertheless, IJ is right too, iPod was never sold at a loss.

B
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:27 PM   #389
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I state a simple MS joke and its like the cockroaches come out
We're all pretty defensive and opinionated around here. :P
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:25 PM   #390
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I presume that hell froze over when you no longer needed a firewire equipped Mac to use an iPod?

Nevertheless, IJ is right too, iPod was never sold at a loss.

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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:08 AM   #391
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$899 for a tablet made by a company not-so-well-known in hardware industry? No thanks.

I could choose many PC laptops with Win 8 installed at 60% - 70% of that price.

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Been using windows 8 for a while and I don't have any issues with usablity at all.
However, many computing idiots (mostly using Windows) won't find Win 8 easy to use.

I once tried out Win 8 in Parallels, and I removed that VM totally from my Mac and keep Win 7 installed in BootCamp. I just want to know one thing basically: why couldn't Win 8 even run Windows Update properly?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:19 AM   #392
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However, many computing idiots (mostly using Windows) won't find Win 8 easy to use
Can you provide evidence? My grandmother who uses an iPad and probably wouldn't know how to do anything beyond that saw me using Windows 8 and she was able to pick up on how to use it easily.

It's not that people are going to have a hard time using Windows 8, it's that people are afraid of change. My grandma never really used Windows before and she was never a computer person. This was a new experience for her and it was not hard at all. Even my mom, who has used Windows since I was pretty much born (being an Apple computer user before then) found that after she had time with Windows 8 started to really like it (after her first reaction was she hated it).

If people didn't have the initial fear of change (Ignorance is bliss) then people would see how Windows 8 is really, one of the best computer OSes in the world. The only reason I'm not using it right now is because I'm waiting for better compatibility on Mac computers. Now that Dell is going to sell their Windows 8 Pro Latitude 10 for $499 (by taking out the removable battery and Pen digitizer, two things I don't even need anyways), I'm definitely going to get my hands on one of those.

In conclusion, computer idiots are not going to find Windows 8 hard at all. Windows 7 is going to be harder for a computer idiot to use than Windows 8.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:45 AM   #393
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In conclusion, computer idiots are not going to find Windows 8 hard at all. Windows 7 is going to be harder for a computer idiot to use than Windows 8.
Yup. Metro (or whatever it's called these days) is roughly as easy to use as iOS. All you have to do for someone new to it is show them the various gestures, and they're about set.

Granted, MS could've done a better job of explaining some of the new features when you fire up Win8 for the first time, but it's still nothing the average person can't figure out on their own after a tiny amount of poking and prodding. Most of the complaints about it being hard to use were made by people who only played with it for 5 minutes, expected it to be exactly like old Windows, have about nil patience, and likely just wanted to have something to complain about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryKNN21
I just want to know one thing basically: why couldn't Win 8 even run Windows Update properly?
Maybe your had your VM set up wrong somehow. I've never had a problem running Win Update.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:13 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by chrf097 View Post
Can you provide evidence? My grandmother who uses an iPad and probably wouldn't know how to do anything beyond that saw me using Windows 8 and she was able to pick up on how to use it easily.

It's not that people are going to have a hard time using Windows 8, it's that people are afraid of change. My grandma never really used Windows before and she was never a computer person. This was a new experience for her and it was not hard at all. Even my mom, who has used Windows since I was pretty much born (being an Apple computer user before then) found that after she had time with Windows 8 started to really like it (after her first reaction was she hated it).

If people didn't have the initial fear of change (Ignorance is bliss) then people would see how Windows 8 is really, one of the best computer OSes in the world. The only reason I'm not using it right now is because I'm waiting for better compatibility on Mac computers. Now that Dell is going to sell their Windows 8 Pro Latitude 10 for $499 (by taking out the removable battery and Pen digitizer, two things I don't even need anyways), I'm definitely going to get my hands on one of those.

In conclusion, computer idiots are not going to find Windows 8 hard at all. Windows 7 is going to be harder for a computer idiot to use than Windows 8.
Ok, these are your opinions and I'm glad to hear that your grandma gets along with Win 8 well.

What I am against Win 8 is those unnecessary changes made on it. I'm not a person that fear of change, if so I wouldn't have got myself a MacBook after giving up on a 7-year-old PC tower. Let's start with that Apps Screen on Win 8, why can't I see some indication of what Apps I'm running just like the indicator lights on OSX's Dock? After I launched several apps and pressed Command key to jump back to Apps Screen, I don't know pressing Command key means all those previously opened Apps are quitted or running in background.

Moreover, if I want to shut down Win 8, I need to go to Setting first and then to Power Settings to press the shut down icon. Why are these steps necessary? In OSX I just simply press the power button and shut it down, in Win 7 as well. How could a person that has been using previous Windows would find these steps of shutting down "easy"? I think we could hardly find. Not to mention Windows Update, the new UI won't even show the progress of downloading/installing those updates without I switching back to classic desktop and open the traditional Windows Update window, I just couldn't believe designers in M$ would think overseeing progress of Windows Update needs two windows.

And most importantly, I just use BootCamp to run some of my favourite PC games, I don't use it to work. Thus Win 8's new UI are more unnecessary for my situation.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:31 AM   #395
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Ok, these are your opinions and I'm glad to hear that your grandma gets along with Win 8 well.

What I am against Win 8 is those unnecessary changes made on it. I'm not a person that fear of change, if so I wouldn't have got myself a MacBook after giving up on a 7-year-old PC tower. Let's start with that Apps Screen on Win 8, why can't I see some indication of what Apps I'm running just like the indicator lights on OSX's Dock? After I launched several apps and pressed Command key to jump back to Apps Screen, I don't know pressing Command key means all those previously opened Apps are quitted or running in background.
Metro is more like Android and WebOS in that regard. You don't have an indicator directly running in the Metro start menu or on the desktop taskbar (though I wish you did). Instead you swipe down from the left to bring up the running applications bar.

That's really the biggest problem I have with Win8, the fact that Metro and desktop apps are segregated like they are. It's not a terrible thing to deal with, but it could be a helluva lot better.

Quote:
Moreover, if I want to shut down Win 8, I need to go to Setting first and then to Power Settings to press the shut down icon. Why are these steps necessary? In OSX I just simply press the power button and shut it down, in Win 7 as well. How could a person that has been using previous Windows would find these steps of shutting down "easy"?
That's my other problem. You're right. The power button should be prominently displayed right next to your name on the start screen. It's not a big problem with a tablet, where you press a physical button on the side of the thing, and it goes to sleep. But Win8 is also meant to be used on desktop PCs. MS should've had a little more forethought about some things.

Quote:
I think we could hardly find. Not to mention Windows Update, the new UI won't even show the progress of downloading/installing those updates without I switching back to classic desktop and open the traditional Windows Update window, I just couldn't believe designers in M$ would think overseeing progress of Windows Update needs two windows.
This comes back to my segregation of Metro and desktop issue above. It's like MS has a bunch of good ideas, but they're hodgepodge and piecemeal at the moment. It's one of the things that makes Win8 feel like a half step to something potentially better, more than a complete upgrade in and of itself. On a desktop, Win8 is basically Windows 7 with better resource usage and Metro if you want it. On a tablet, it's Metro, with the desktop if you need it. It's nice having either/or, but it's not a good marriage of the two yet.

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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:17 AM   #396
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:18 AM   #397
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Does anybody else feel that Microsoft should have put an AMD APU inside? Considering AMD makes the CPU for the 360 and newBox, they should be able to get a good deal.

I say this because an APU, to me, is much better for tablets. Why do you think we have the A5/6 processor in the iPad?

I know the graphical performance isn't the with an integrated GPU, but running skyrim on the A10/A8 AMD APUs is something that's incredible.

Also, the price should be $200 lower.
??? The CPU in the XBOX 360 is a PowerPC chip and it is not made by AMD.
I think you're referring to the GPU, which is made by AMD.

The Surface Pro is a hybrid ultrabook and tablet. Putting in an AMD chip instead of the Core i5 would have been an instant death sentence.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:19 AM   #398
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However, many computing idiots (mostly using Windows) won't find Win 8 easy to use.

I once tried out Win 8 in Parallels, and I removed that VM totally from my Mac and keep Win 7 installed in BootCamp. I just want to know one thing basically: why couldn't Win 8 even run Windows Update properly?
My updates are running properly. Maybe there is someting wrong with you configuration with Parallels?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:25 AM   #399
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If they did, everyone would buy Surface Pro's instead of OEM brands and the OEM's would be pissed off.

MS can always make up for lower Surface sales through OEM licensing. Meanwhile hardware sales are all the OEM's have
Very true. I guess they have to walk a fine line between user adoption of windows 8 and making sure OEM get their sales.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:11 PM   #400
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What I am against Win 8 is those unnecessary changes made on it. I'm not a person that fear of change, if so I wouldn't have got myself a MacBook after giving up on a 7-year-old PC tower. Let's start with that Apps Screen on Win 8, why can't I see some indication of what Apps I'm running just like the indicator lights on OSX's Dock? After I launched several apps and pressed Command key to jump back to Apps Screen, I don't know pressing Command key means all those previously opened Apps are quitted or running in background.
It's really easy to see every open program though, windows(command)+tab, swipe from the side (if on a touch screen), or moving your mouse up into the left-hand corner, brings up a pane showing every app and if you want to close it right-click & close. Secondly, Metro apps are handled the same way that iOS handles open apps, they're like "frozen". For desktop apps, no brainer.

It's not an unnecessary change, it's just different.

Quote:
Moreover, if I want to shut down Win 8, I need to go to Setting first and then to Power Settings to press the shut down icon. Why are these steps necessary? In OSX I just simply press the power button and shut it down, in Win 7 as well. How could a person that has been using previous Windows would find these steps of shutting down "easy"? I think we could hardly find. Not to mention Windows Update, the new UI won't even show the progress of downloading/installing those updates without I switching back to classic desktop and open the traditional Windows Update window, I just couldn't believe designers in M$ would think overseeing progress of Windows Update needs two windows.
Again, its not hard at all? Open the charms bar, hit the settings option, then choose power options? It's no different than on Windows XP when you choose Start -> Shut down, and then you get the dialog box choice.





Pressing the power button still shuts it down, provided you tell the system power button = shutdown. I know on Windows 7 you also have to tell it that, as the default is sleep. Speaking of sleep, Windows 8 is designed around the instant on concept, similar to how Mac OS X is now, and unless you're either storing your portable for an extended time, or you're on a desktop and you're in a freak storm and not plugged into a power strip, there's really no reason why shutting down is a better choice than sleeping the computer.

Again, it's not an unnecessary change, it's just different, and i'm not saying you can't handle change or anything, but if you look, it's still the same way as it is on everything else, just different. It's still the same way to shut down, and Metro apps are handled the same way other OSes handle their apps, just differently. Metro is about giving a clean open view to the user, similar to what iOS tries to accomplish. The vast majority of standard computer using people don't need to see the Windows Updates progress bar, and for those that have a loading bar fetish, you have the option to see it in the major desktop view. Why do you even think there's a main desktop? So those who don't like the change can still use what they're familiar with in a familiar environment until this new concept warms up to them.

I love Metro. Depending on what the iPhone is like when my upgrade comes around, I may jump aboard the Windows Phone platform.
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