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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:26 PM   #51
yakapo
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Makes more sense to compare the surface pro with the macbook air 11". Looks like it has potential. However, I'm willing to bet you won't get 4hours of battery life out of it. I'd stay away until they fix the teething issues.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by inlinevolvo View Post
It was for a few hours setting up my grandfathers laptop. I should have clarified, it is a nightmare for desktop users. The OS is clearly designed for tablets and the OS makes you feel like you are using a tablet in a desktop environment. For example, I can't even manually resize apps to my liking in metro when using a 1080p monitor, I have to use this rather absurd 2/3 1/3 split. I have used windows since DOS, not that I'm a technical guru, but it feels like Microsoft took all the productivity out of the OS while trying to sock it to the iPad. It doesn't work well for the desktop. Sure win 8 is prettier, smarter and faster. But it is a complete disruption in work flow. I'll stick with win 7. Besides, every win user knows to skip every other OS release. Win 8 has worst uptake than vista, and no one today doubts that was a waste.
Your biggest problem was you used Metro apps on a mouse based desktop machine. You don't have to do that. They're just there for you if you want to use them.

...which I do for a couple of things. I like being able to watch Netflix without having to install Silverlight.

As far as the desktop goes, it's not vastly different than 7. When I upgraded to 8 (which I did because it was cheap, I'll admit), my usual workflow barely changed at all. It's still the same basic Windows on that front.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:27 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
If they keep throwing things against the wall one of them might even stick.
Not if Steve Ballmer is the one throwing them.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:28 PM   #54
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So when did this become "MicrosoftRumors"?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:29 PM   #55
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Trying to use windows 8 without a touch screen is a PITA. A touch screen enabled device - such as this, running windows 8 is great to use IMO.

Touch screen enabled screens is where Apple investigate further with OSX and future laptops. Its not uncomfortable because you don't have to be using the touch screen for every single operation.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:29 PM   #56
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I don't understand why you would compare a tablet with a laptop? Anyway I like the Surface, it's an interesting design, but only in the RT version. Because for an extra $100 on top of the Surface Pro price you can get the Razer Edge tablet with it's dedicated GPU which I think is a far better buy.

It all comes down to what you want to use it for though. I'll stick with my Nexus 7 because of that reason, it does what I want.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:30 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by rfahey View Post
So when did this become "MicrosoftRumors"?
God, you're right. I've been on MacRumors for years and they've NEVER run stories about products from companies that compete with Apple products. Never, I tell ya. This is such a startling 180 for this site.

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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:32 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by tann View Post
I wonder what the battery life on this thing will be! Smaller than iPad's and much more powerful...
You get to be that guy that has to have a power cable to make it through class— out of the box!

What a steal
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:32 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It's almost the exact same hardware in the MBA with a touch and digitizer enabled, higher resolution screen.

...for $100 less.

Tell me again how that's funny.
Except that it isn't out yet and the current MBA has been around for quite a while. By the time they bring this to market next month the competition is going to make it look pretty old. There are already much nicer Windows 8 ultra portables on the market form OEMs that make this look quite poor before its even been released.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:32 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
The more appropriate price comparison here is to the MacBook Air (and Touch Cover or Type Cover keyboard needs to be included in that price comparison). From the early reviews I have read, Surface continues to be a compromised tablet and a compromised "ultrabook".

As a tablet it is heavy and much of the software is not optimized for touch.

As an ultrabook it cannot be comfortably used in your lap and the keyboard and trackpad are not as good as the MacBook Air.
Agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IJ Reilly View Post
If they keep throwing things against the wall one of them might even stick.
Agree with this too... Microsoft has been dancing around in the mobile space since the Windows CE days and has yet to really hit a home run. Apple danced for 5 minutes before their first home run, and continue to keep hitting them. I seriously doubt this new Microsoft product is destined for the hall of fame because its going to have too narrow of an audience that it appeals to. Much of the Microsoft audience is hooked on "cheap".

About the only hope this has is for Microsoft to come out with an absolutely amazing version of MS Office that is better than sliced bread on this device.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:33 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
Anandtech chart is flawed....

Why the comparison with the iPad only ? Surely a fairer comparison would be between the surface pro and the MacBook Air 11" stock.


MBA
11-inch : 64GB
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 2.6GHz
4GB memory
64GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1376x768 Resolution

$999.00


SurfacePro
10.1"
Dual Core i5 processor
4GB memory
64GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1920x1080

Touch Cover & Surface Pen accessories included.

$899
Yep - and one BIG point here, as you rightfully pointed it out, is the ability of the MBA to temporary push the thermal envelope and go full thrust on one core at 2,6 GHz. I'm pretty sure the Core i5 equipped Surface can't do that - simply because it has no fans or because it is just too thin/packed to properly dissipate heat. Well, that's pure brainvomit from my part but I'm pretty sure it is the case. And that would further push the "jack of all trades, master at none" aspect of the Surface Pro...
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:33 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by nagromme View Post
$100 less? But the Surface has no keyboard included at that price, vs. the Air's keyboard which offers two important things: backlighting, and adjustable screen angle. Two things you'll find hard to live without once you've tried them.

So at the very least, you'd better add that $100 back onto the Surface, to get at least a keyboard of some kind. Otherwise, you've got a product to compare with tablets, not laptops.
...er, for about the same price then. :P

I'll happily admit this isn't a perfect product for everyone. Depending on what they want to do, some people are likely to get far better performance out of traditional laptop. Like if you do massive amounts of document work or programming, I'm sure you wouldn't want to spend a lot of time using that flat keyboard, no matter how good a portable tablet style alternative it might be.

But for artwork, gaming, and other general ultrabook tasks, it's not too half bad. The biggest selling point for me is the onboard digitizer. It'd make using programs like Photoshop an Zbrush an absolute joy to use.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:34 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by rfahey View Post
So when did this become "MicrosoftRumors"?
It's nice to see how the competition is stacking up
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:34 PM   #64
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I would like to see someone post a speed rating comparison as well.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:37 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by shenfrey View Post
I will never buy a Microsoft product, I don't think I will even buy the 720. Have you seen the 360s interface really? It's shockingly bloated.
I agree on the 360. The original blades for the dash were clean now it's just ads, and more ads, hell the GAME in your disk drive is a small box, shouldnt it be a larger one?? People talk about Apple taking away choice but MS does it as well. Twin freaking brothers I tell ya.

+ paying a LIVE sub to use netflix....wow! PS4 perhaps, hope Sony can pull a rabbit out of their hat. Their finances are really bad though at the moment.

I did have a good time wit the 360 though and it's online is smoother for friend chats and party's. Bought the only reason I use it still is friends on LIVE.

Surface Pro to me though looks alright, probably be good for a decent amount of people, but I cant stand the metro stuff.

My brief time with Win8 I can say felt smooth and I could easily use it. I just dont dig the tablet interface running alongside the traditional desktop. Feels like 2 on top of each other, again this is no huge deal if I had to use it, I just choose not to. I wasn't dazzled with Win7 although I know it's solid, heck I had no issues with Vista haha

The search thing on the start page is nice but OSX is the same thing without jumping into metro land, just click spotlight and type away, to me that's easier. I like the static desktop and hope it stays, and it will either way cause Linux is chilling anytime you need it if Apple craps the bed.

My two cents, wasnt trying to sound too whiney about anything.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:37 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by scrapple View Post
STEAM, DROOL!!!

Just wish it had 8gb of ram... my steam games and my corded 360 joystick would love this on long flights.....

Ill wait for benchmarks...
Hope you only plan on running older games with the integrated graphics. The 4000 won't run most current games.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:41 PM   #67
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Why compare to a MBA? Seems to me the better comparison would be to a Windows Ultrabook. How many people realistically will be wavering between a MBA and a Surface? If you want/need the Windows ecosystem wouldn't you be comparing this with a Lenovo, Asus, Dell, etc. convertible?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:41 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It all really comes down to how much you like having a fullscreen start menu. That's about the biggest difference between it and 7 if you ask me.
No one asked you.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:41 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
While it shows only WiFi for Surface Pro Surface Pro actually has way more connectivity options than iPad because it has USB port which (with a real OS) can be used to connect 3G/LTE dongle.
Tethering perhaps does the job?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:43 PM   #70
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I think I agree... it's a cumbersome compromise between a laptop and a tablet. It wants to give you the keyboard and viewing angle of a laptop, but the touch interface of a tablet. But with the kickstand, its bulky size and that huge floppy keyboard/cover... it couldn't get much worse if it had cords hanging off of it.

If I were forced to work in product design at Microsoft, I'd have the keyboard cover be a hard cover on a hinge. It would fold ALL THE WAY around and snap into the back of the tablet, concealing the keyboard keys. So when you're using it as a tablet, it feels like a solid piece. If you need a kickstand, you just partially unfold it. If you need a keyboard, you open it up all the way and swing the keyboard to the front.

Mind you, the keyboard cover would need to be carbon-fiber strong and very thin... or it would piss people off.


Quote:
Originally Posted by HiRez View Post
I don't get this thing. It looks like they took some good ideas but jumbled them together into something that is somehow less than the sum of its parts. I can't imagine choosing this over either an iPad or a MacBook Air (or even one of the many Wndows clones of it). I'm sure they'll sell a few million of these but MS bet the company on it and I don't see this pulling them out of their slow downward spiral.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by MacRumors View Post
Nice! For our MS-based needs, this looks great. Thanks for that crack move in deciding to compete against & undercut your business partners, MS. Dell, HP, etc, who needs em? Good work.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:43 PM   #72
Renzatic
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Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post
no one asked you.
LOOK WHO'S SASSY!

...this line added so I can make the previous sentence all caps.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:44 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
Anandtech chart is flawed....

Why the comparison with the iPad only ? Surely a fairer comparison would be between the surface pro and the MacBook Air 11" stock.


MBA
11-inch : 64GB
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 2.6GHz
4GB memory
64GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1376x768 Resolution

$999.00


SurfacePro
10.1"
Dual Core i5 processor
4GB memory
64GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1920x1080

Touch Cover & Surface Pen accessories included.

$899
You chart is flawed too.

From the article:

Quote:
[...]the Surface Pro tablet is priced at $899 for the 64GB model and $999 for the 128GB model.
[...]
Both versions of the Surface Pro ship with a Surface pen, but the Touch or Type Covers, which retail for $100, are not included.
Which is wrong as well anyway since a Touch cover is $119.99 and a Type cover is $129.99.

http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-...es/touch-cover
http://www.microsoft.com/Surface/en-...ies/type-cover

You should update your price accordingly and mention other specs such as screen size and the fact that a MBA has better (backlit) keyboard and trackpad, and an actual hinge so you can use it on your lap and adjust the angle of the screen, which is kind of a big deal.

Last edited by pgiguere1; Jan 22, 2013 at 02:51 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:45 PM   #74
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$899 (!) for only wifi connection?? //edit//and for a win8 tabloid

Thanks but no thanks

Last edited by needfx; Jan 22, 2013 at 03:40 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:45 PM   #75
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My problem is all the switching between desktop and Metro interfaces makes it clunky, if they can make using it overall a more fluid experience then it would be a huge leap forward.
I do agree somewhat, I'm not a fan of the photos, video, music player apps with metro, since I prefer to use the Preview, VLC, Windows Media, that's inside desktop mode, so it's been annoying having to change what extensions open with what. But I've much preferred the more easier to use file manager options, i.e. windows explorer, being able to dock windows, and stuff.
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