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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:46 PM   #76
Gravity
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I forgot to mention the keyboard should swivel as well... so the keys can be concealed when it folds back. I think another company already did this though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravity View Post
I think I agree... it's a cumbersome compromise between a laptop and a tablet. It wants to give you the keyboard and viewing angle of a laptop, but the touch interface of a tablet. But with the kickstand, its bulky size and that huge floppy keyboard/cover... it couldn't get much worse if it had cords hanging off of it.

If I were forced to work in product design at Microsoft, I'd have the keyboard cover be a hard cover on a hinge. It would fold ALL THE WAY around and snap into the back of the tablet, concealing the keyboard keys. So when you're using it as a tablet, it feels like a solid piece. If you need a kickstand, you just partially unfold it. If you need a keyboard, you open it up all the way and swing the keyboard to the front.

Mind you, the keyboard cover would need to be carbon-fiber strong and very thin... or it would piss people off.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:48 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KdParker View Post
That price is too steep. Might be a nice tablet, but I just can't justify the cost.
But the comparably priced Macbook Air is a good deal?

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by pommie82 View Post
I wont use trash like Bill gates rubbish
No worries for you then since he hasn't run the company for years and had nothing to do with Windows 8 or the Surface.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:48 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It's almost the exact same hardware in the MBA with a touch and digitizer enabled, higher resolution screen.

...for $100 less.

Tell me again how that's funny.
Exactly what I was thinking. Oh, and it natively runs over 90% of the business and consumer software currently in existence. Perfectly? Probably not, but that emulator you're running isn't perfect either. "Good Enough" is a judgement call . . .
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:48 PM   #79
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Its insane how biased everyone here is. On paper it has better specs than the macbook air. Yet everyone still says its a overpriced POS
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:49 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
Yes, an OS thats 90% the same as Windows 7 is "usability hell".
If the 10% that changed was usability, then yes.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:49 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
But the comparably priced Macbook Air is a good deal?
Yeah never get that analogy. A MBA/pad for 1k which is like the Lenovo Yoga would be pretty sweet though. Their current 1k offering at the big A is very LOL. 11 inch whatever that crap is....
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:51 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarScott View Post
Can't help thinking Microsoft are being greedy with THIS Surface too. It's barely better than the iPad 4 when you compare the specs.
So true! At least Apple isn't greedy.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
It's almost the exact same hardware in the MBA with a touch and digitizer enabled, higher resolution screen.

...for $100 less.

Tell me again how that's funny.
Please stop bringing logic into the discussion. It doesn't go over well.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:51 PM   #83
ctdonath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr McKay View Post
Yes, an OS thats 90% the same as Windows 7 is "usability hell".
Take a perfectly normal car.
Replace the steering wheel with an Xbox controller.

Yeah, 10% can wreck usability.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:52 PM   #84
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Seems pretty pricey, to me. $899 for a tablet?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:52 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ItsWelshy View Post
I'd sooner pay $100 and get the MBA... Actually I'd sooner pay $500 more and get the air

Are you really comparing a premium OSX laptop with a two-bob Microsoft tablet?
How much time have you spent using the Surface Pro? What didn't you like about it?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:54 PM   #86
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What a shame iPAD is, bring out real iTouch or iSLATE with a real ML OSX on it plzzzzz
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
Your biggest problem was you used Metro apps on a mouse based desktop machine. You don't have to do that. They're just there for you if you want to use them.

...which I do for a couple of things. I like being able to watch Netflix without having to install Silverlight.

As far as the desktop goes, it's not vastly different than 7. When I upgraded to 8 (which I did because it was cheap, I'll admit), my usual workflow barely changed at all. It's still the same basic Windows on that front.
My point is I shouldn't need a touch input to use a desktop. It does not make sense for a desktop environment. I tried to get away from metro but the OS would keep sucking me back in. For example I opened up outlook, which the OS transferred me to classic view to use. Ok, great. Then I double clicked an mp3 file I downloaded to the desktop to listen to it. Well, the OS took me out of classic view into a full screen metro view of this lone song. Completely disrupting my work. Now, I had to navigate back. See, win 8 would be great and work like any other version of the recent offerings, if metro could be turned off.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:55 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
So true! At least Apple isn't greedy.
Well Apple partly subsidizes their iPads because they make 30% off of every app purchases in the app store. This is still technically Microsoft's first computer ever, and they don't have the high volume production like Apple to help reduce the cost.

I hope Microsoft does do well with the Surface and their future products. The competition between Apple and Microsoft will force advancements by both companies and benefit all consumers in the future.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:56 PM   #89
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Well, MS is putting the "Pro" in "Profit" I guess...

Who is the audience for this? I'm going to assume it's a "professional", given the name and price tag. But what pro apps would I run on this that I wouldn't want a regular, much more powerful laptop for? I feel like it's in this weird middle ground of pricing.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:56 PM   #90
BC2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
Anandtech chart is flawed....

Why the comparison with the iPad only ? Surely a fairer comparison would be between the surface pro and the MacBook Air 11" stock.


MBA
11-inch : 64GB
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 2.6GHz
4GB memory
64GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1376x768 Resolution

$999.00


SurfacePro
10.1"
Dual Core i5 processor
4GB memory
64GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1920x1080

Touch Cover & Surface Pen accessories included.

$899
Do you have a source that indicates the Touch Cover is included? Because according to to Microsoft, it does not seem to be included for that price.

To quote the linked press release from Microsoft:

Quote:
Starting at an estimated retail price of US$899, Surface Windows 8 Pro will be available in 64GB and 128GB models.[1] A Surface pen with Palm Block technology, designed specifically to work with Surface to let customers edit, collaborate and get things done, is included with Surface Windows 8 Pro.
Notice there is no mention of Type Cover. Further down in a caption for a picture we see this text (my emphasis):

Quote:
The Surface Windows 8 Pro is shown with an optional Type Cover and is available for purchase in the U.S. and Canada Feb. 9 and starts at US$899
This would put the price at $1028 with the Type Cover priced at $129.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:57 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
Anandtech chart is flawed....

Why the comparison with the iPad only ? Surely a fairer comparison would be between the surface pro and the MacBook Air 11" stock.


MBA
11-inch : 64GB
1.7GHz dual-core Intel Core i5 processor
Turbo Boost up to 2.6GHz
4GB memory
64GB flash storage1
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1376x768 Resolution

$999.00


SurfacePro
10.1"
Dual Core i5 processor
4GB memory
64GB flash storage
Intel HD Graphics 4000
1920x1080

Touch Cover & Surface Pen accessories included.

$899
I think the touch cover is another $119.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needfx View Post
$899 (!) for only wifi connection??

Thanks but no thanks
Does the MBA have cellular?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post

Please stop bringing logic into the discussion. It doesn't go over well.
You think I would've learned by now...
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #94
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I think the success of the mini and nexus 7 has taken all the air out of hybridization. For most users it will be much more attractive to have an ultrabook and a small tablet. The only competitve advantage for surface is a wacom digitizer, but the fact that Microsoft never even mentions this shows it is not an important feature to prospective buyers. The failure of the Surface will confirm that the new 7-8 inch tablet paradigm.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by radio893fm View Post
Right... like Office, Windows itself the XBox platform... to name a few. But it's ok, keep hating MS.
Wow, talk about your basic overreaction. You can have no concept of whether I "hate" Microsoft, let alone whether I am keeping at it.

The fact is, looking beyond the three products you mentioned, Microsoft does have a poor track record with making products that succeed. Even the Xbox was a huge financial sinkhole for many years before it started turning a profit. By contrast the very moment any product from Apple seems to be anything less than an instant smash hit, the critics and the doomsayers are all over it. Can you say "double standard?" I knew you could.

I said precisely what I meant. Microsoft is nothing if not persistent. They may yet succeed with one or another of the Surface models, but not because they made a great plan and executed brilliantly on that plan, it will be on account of trying over and over again until something clicks. This is Microsoft's history beyond of their core product line, and it isn't "hate" to make this observation, but a statement of fact.

It is also worth mentioning that if Microsoft does manage to develop a hit Surface product, that they will be getting straight up the noses of their Windows OEMs. Right now Microsoft being both their partner and a competitor isn't much of an issue, but it could become one if Surface goes anywhere.
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Last edited by IJ Reilly; Jan 22, 2013 at 02:08 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:58 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
How much time have you spent using the Surface Pro? What didn't you like about it?
We could start with the Price.

Does anyone have anything else they would like to add to the list?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:59 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by wingsabre View Post
Well Apple partly subsidizes their iPads because they make 30% off of every app purchases in the app store. This is still technically Microsoft's first computer ever, and they don't have the high volume production like Apple to help reduce the cost.

I hope Microsoft does do well with the Surface and their future products. The competition between Apple and Microsoft will force advancements by both companies and benefit all consumers in the future.
You're joking, right?
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:59 PM   #98
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Perhaps I'm the only one that noticed this... but look at the batteries. The iPad and regular surface tablet are running low power chips, so having 30-40 Wh makes sense and works well for them respectively.

Now we have a machine with an i5 and HD4000 at 17W.... with ~40Wh. Compared to a proper laptop, like a rMBP which has 95 Wh or a regular MBP with 74 Wh, that battery size seems rather underwhelming. However, when compared to the 11" MBA it appears favorable (35 Wh), but I can't imagine them sticking in a dual core clocked that low when they have a TEGRA3 for their standard edition. I can't be half assed to look up the clock speed and cores for the i5 they picked, but I'm sure it's gimped to hell as a ULV in order to compensate some.

I'd be interested to see real-world battery life -- maybe Windows 8 is better at resource management than OSX?

Last edited by darkplanets; Jan 22, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:59 PM   #99
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This is going to be a huge success for Microsoft. I predict Microsoft will sell thousands and thousands of these.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:02 PM   #100
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Specmanship Games

This is the typical specmanship games from Microsoft. I could care less about the specifications beyond storage capacity. Either it performs well, or it doesn't. The user experience is a combination of hardware and software working together.

Here we have an i5 processor, much more RAM and full operating system. I seriously doubt the battery life will be exceptional. Apple has been successful because they realize that different tools are needed for different jobs. If I need immediate access to information, I have the phone.

For heavier web-surfing, reading, and research, there is the iPad.

For graphic intensive applications and reporting, there is the laptop. The iPad 3 has never failed to respond almost instantaneously. Microsoft is trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

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