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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:14 PM   #126
ifij775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needfx View Post
nope, but it should
I predict the next update will have LTE, with about 100% probability.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:15 PM   #127
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Why is MR putting this chart up with the Surface Pro along side a iPad?

A Surface is a workstation, tablet, notebook crossbreed that will be very good for business. As a I.T. Manager this device will replace my thin clients, Workstations, notebooks, ultra books and the 100+ iPads. It is the perfect device for companies that do alot of admin work, accounting and telemarketing. Its going to save my a truck load out of the budget to spend on infrastructure upgrades and the like.

And to have a go at the operating system when it will do everything our IT department throw at it. The nightmares we have had trying to get iOS to be anything other than useless for productivity with in a large corporate network infrastructure has be laughable.

Back to my first question. Please don't put a iPad with it closed down Eco system striped of all choices to make it easy to use, against a product that will bring so much benefit to the business sector and push companies to make products similar or even better.

The Surface Pro will suit business a lot better than home use. Leave that to Apple and Android.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:15 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by CausticPuppy View Post
Kudos to Microsoft for building a subnotebook that can't be used on a standard airplane tray table, unless to take the keyboard off.
Only if you're poor and fly economy class

For the record, I've used a Surface (albeit an RT model) on an economy table and it fit fine. And this was on one of those tiny single class regional jets.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:16 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
You honestly think that Apple is taking a hit on profits with their iPad pricing?
Hugely, they use ALOOMINUM!!! Should be priced at $999 for the 16GB, I mean I pay for style son!!!!
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:16 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Isn't that always the case for Windows? The third release (Windows 8 Service Pack 2?) will resolve most of the issues.

I didn't even mind Vista terribly by the time Service Pack 1 came out, by SP2 it was finally a step up from XP.

B
Very true. After a service pack or two things are generally working quite well.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:16 PM   #131
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OK, does Windows 8 run *well* with any apps under 4GB of RAM?
I seem to be buying more and more RAM upto Windows 7, and now the whole memory usage problem is moot?
Yeah, provided you don't try to choke it out by running Photoshop with 500 20 megapixel pictures open in it or something.

Really, Windows system requirements as per the box have stayed exactly the same since Vista, and the OSes themselves have been tweaked to run thinner and lighter where ever possible. Windows 8 in general usually consumes a good 15-25% less memory than 7 does...and I've run 7 on a machine with 2GB without any hiccups or problems before.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:16 PM   #132
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While I'm no fan of Windows 8, I do like the fact that it is available with 128GB, perhaps this will spur Apple etc to increase the storage on the iPad and iPhones.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:17 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
Is it a better tablet? No.

Is it a better laptop? No.
A better way to do this would be to go feature by feature instead of compare markets

IE is the Surface Pro better for note taking?
With the 600 ppi Wacom digitizer/stylus + inking, I'd say yeah

etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingsabre View Post
No. Look at the price for iPads, iPhone, etc... Especially look at the price of products with a cellular plan. Apple could theoretically sell it for more, and still keep a profitable margin. They don't have to because they'll make more money if they sell if for a cheaper price, and get their customers to buy apps from their ecosystem.
It's the other way around. Apple devalues software to sell hardware. They barely make squat off the app store. If that 30% actually mean something to them, they wouldn't have let iOS turn into a cheap mess of $1 and Freemium ware. They'd be trying to maximize app pricepoints on mobile.

Amazon uses hardware to sell retail goods and books. They're different.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:17 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Sacird View Post
Hugely, they use ALOOMINUM!!! Should be priced at $999 for the 16GB, I mean I pay for style son!!!!
I wonder why so many people are going for the iPad mini over the full size? I foolishly thought it was due to it's lower price.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:17 PM   #135
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I think $899 is a fair price for an ultrabook replacement. The Surface pro is much more like the MacBook Air than an iPad. It's just build to allow possible tablet function. Don't know if it'll come with a touch cover, but it should. An additional $100 for their more traditional type cover would be reasonable. I tried out their touch cover and it works fine for me, and I didn't need to adjust to it significantly. Overall, $999 is a competitive price for an ultrabook, and high enough to force their OEMs to price their products lower.

I look at the Surface as Microsoft's attempt to show what Windows 8 can do, and to attempt to take advantage of all the possible features. It's similar to how Google developed the Nexus One as a benchmark for other OEMs. Not all the features are necessary for one device, or one device type, however the OEMs can pick and choose to apply what they like to their own tablet conversions. For example, the Yoga or the Taichi.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:18 PM   #136
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Let me admit my bias up front: I don't have any Microsoft software on any machine I own. I don't like Microsoft very much.

But I predict they'll sell almost as many Surface Pros as they did Zunes. The exact same people will buy them ... well, those who aren't dead or haven't switched to an OS that actually allows them to get something done.

In two or three years, the various Surface iterations will be another bad memory for Microsoft lovers ... like the Zune! I cannot wait to see the lack of lines at my local Microsoft mall kiosk on 9 February.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:19 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by surjavarman View Post
Yeah and apple are masters of selling you stuff that you didn't need before but making you believe that you need it. Such as the tablet market. We were doing fine for over 30 years with computers and laptops and for 5 years with smartphones and now suddenly we need to browse the web on the couch when either a laptop or smartphone would suffice
No offence but with that thinking we'd never progress. If you remember, we were also doing just fine with horse and carriage, muskets etc...
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:20 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
I wonder why so many people are going for the iPad mini over the full size? I foolishly thought it was due to it's lower price.
Eh those are those cheap bastards that don't deserve to buy anything. It's gross frankly. Sick of these poor bastards ruining Apple's good name. I bet they don't even drive a Bentley, gross.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:20 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by jmoore5196 View Post
Let me admit my bias up front: I don't have any Microsoft software on any machine I own. I don't like Microsoft very much.

But I predict they'll sell almost as many Surface Pros as they did Zunes. The exact same people will buy them ... well, those who aren't dead or haven't switched to an OS that actually allows them to get something done.

In two or three years, the various Surface iterations will be another bad memory for Microsoft lovers ... like the Zune! I cannot wait to see the lack of lines at my local Microsoft mall kiosk on 9 February.
Funny that the world runs on Windows. Even Apple's iCloud uses Microsoft software.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:20 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by AppleScruff1 View Post
It depends on what you are doing and what your preferences are. The iPad is nice to use for many things. The touch interface is quite appropriate for many tasks, IMO. Ditto for the Surface. I think that for the way many people actually use a computer, ie, internet, email, facebook, etc, the tablets are good. I also think that Windows 8 on a tablet is an excellent alternative to iOS, much better than Android, IMO.
Frankly, it's the ergonomy of tablets I dislike. I have yet to even find a comfortable positions in which to use them for more than 2 consecutive minutes.

And laptops are as good for all the tasks you list.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:20 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
The more appropriate price comparison here is to the MacBook Air (and Touch Cover or Type Cover keyboard needs to be included in that price comparison). From the early reviews I have read, Surface continues to be a compromised tablet and a compromised "ultrabook".

As a tablet it is heavy and much of the software is not optimized for touch.

As an ultrabook it cannot be comfortably used in your lap and the keyboard and trackpad are not as good as the MacBook Air.

I think the Windows 8 OEM's have better answers for the "convertible tablet/ultrabook" category than Microsoft does.
The pricing isn't bad, but it isn't great either. I doubt that at 2lbs, it will get much actual "tablet" usage. With the Type Cover, it winds up costing more than a comparable MacBook Air or Asus Zenbook. Granted, it has the touchscreen, but it lacks the MacBook Air's superior connectivity (Thunderbolt, 2 USB 3.0 ports), and isn't as easy to use on a lap or tray table.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:21 PM   #142
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Well, MS is putting the "Pro" in "Profit" I guess...

Who is the audience for this? I'm going to assume it's a "professional", given the name and price tag. But what pro apps would I run on this that I wouldn't want a regular, much more powerful laptop for? I feel like it's in this weird middle ground of pricing.
That is exactly the problem I see with this tablet. I might be a good (as a tablet) but there is no way it is worth the cost.

I'm not sure what this product would replace.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:21 PM   #143
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Heavier, less resolution, Windows 8, (probably) less battery life, same price...

I'm not sensing the love, here. In fact, after 3 years and a lot of vaporware, MS is losing their minds.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:22 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Sacird View Post
Eh those are those cheap bastards that don't deserve to buy anything. It's gross frankly. Sick of these poor bastards ruining Apple's good name. I bet they don't even drive a Bentley, gross.
They don't realize that they are hurting Apple's bottom line by purchasing the entry level product. For some reason they are putting their needs ahead of Apple's.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:23 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by centauratlas View Post
While I'm no fan of Windows 8, I do like the fact that it is available with 128GB, perhaps this will spur Apple etc to increase the storage on the iPad and iPhones.
I was just going to post the same.

64GB is lame and 128GBs with Apples purchasing power should be near to being affordable., with more and more players wanting these.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:23 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by convergent View Post
Microsoft has been dancing around in the mobile space since the Windows CE days and has yet to really hit a home run.
In that analogy, Microsoft has barely even managed to get on base, much less hit a home run. They do the whole 'point to the outfield bleachers' thing before every pitch, and keep swinging at *every* pitch that comes across the plate, but the best they've managed in the mobile space has been a walk, and stealing first due to errors on the part of the 'other team' (Palm).

Quote:
Originally Posted by convergent View Post
Apple danced for 5 minutes before their first home run, and continue to keep hitting them.
Apple didn't dance around, they practiced hard in private, and came prepared for the game. It's not much of a surprise they ended up with a home run considering the teams they were up against.

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Originally Posted by convergent View Post
I seriously doubt this new Microsoft product is destined for the hall of fame because its going to have too narrow of an audience that it appeals to. Much of the Microsoft audience is hooked on "cheap".
And ironically, it's not entirely Microsoft's fault that their primary audience is hooked on cheap. After all, Microsoft-branded hardware has *seldom* been at the cheap end. Its the (abusive) relationships they built with OEMs, and the ensuing 'race to the bottom' in the '80s and '90s that bought them that end result.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:23 PM   #147
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Just get an 11" Air. You get an actual thin/light full fledge laptop and you can install Windows 8. Much more compelling.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:23 PM   #148
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this may work

Ah, now, what this is, is the wet dream tablet for IT Administrators around the globe. You know, the folks who just can't stand the fact that Apple's had the most usable (only real tablet ) on the market for the PAST 3 YEARS!

The Surface Pro may be perfectly fine, and would probably have been wildly successful in a computing landscape of a decade ago, but times have changed. Apple understood that a cross between a hand held and a laptop just doesn't work, and so the iPad rightfully doesn't try to be a MacBook with "touch".

Doesn't matter though - the IT crowd is going to look at this as their opportunity to perpetuate the Windows-only house of cards they know and love. Because the Pro will run existing full desktop apps (and Office!) IT won't have to adapt or learn any new technology. You watch, despite the drawbacks of a hybrid device, poor (relatively) battery life, and the UI awkwardness (oh yes, I've used Win 8 - eww), this thing will proliferate throughout corp. IT departments...

Or I could be completely wrong and it will flop... But I see no middle ground here - this thing will show up at companies everywhere (and be as despised by users as the PC is) by the millions, or it will be soundly rejected and cease to exist in a year or two. Get out the popcorn, this is going to be interesting to watch.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:24 PM   #149
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Funny that the world runs on Windows. Even Apple's iCloud uses Microsoft software.
I'm not sure what part of the world you're in, friend, but my part of the world is decidedly not Windows-based!

Go into any Starbucks in London or New York, where working people are socializing whilst getting real work done. Mac laptops proliferate like legal addictive stimulants.

By the way, please change your avatar. I just got spit in my eye!
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:24 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
It's the other way around. Apple devalues software to sell hardware. They barely make squat off the app store. If that 30% actually mean something to them, they wouldn't have let iOS turn into a cheap mess of $1 and Freemium ware. They'd be trying to maximize app pricepoints on mobile.

Amazon uses hardware to sell retail goods and books. They're different.
They emphasize hardware for retail sales, but I disagree when it comes to their profit on the apps. They still make money off of free apps. There's plenty of advertisements they get from them. 30% off of 99 cents is not much, or even 30% off of $1.99 is not much. However, we are seeing more in app purchases, and more apps that cost more. Even apps like Pandora who links to iTunes will add to Apple's profits. It's a slow but steady cash flow.
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