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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:24 PM   #51
Dagless
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I had never heard of this before today, do we have a similar service in the UK? I hope we don't!

I guess I'm not patriotic. I live in a country and if that country fell, well I'm still me, I'll move elsewhere.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 06:25 PM   #52
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What are the actual chances of your "number" getting called? Don't they do it alphabetically by last name?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selecti....29_procedures
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:12 PM   #53
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If you do not register for selective service, you can't get student loans, you can't renew your drivers license, there's a lot the government stops you from doing if you fail to register. They won't come cart you away (unless the draft IS implemented), but there's a lot of gruff to go through if you don't.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:20 PM   #54
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I got one of those letters when I turned 18, so did my brother. But, we're too old now. lol.
I turned 18 the year they reinstated the policy back in the late '70s.

I didn't want to sign, but did.

They made life pretty tough for those who held out.

I wouldn't recommend it.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:40 PM   #55
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You don't have to sign or register for anything unless you receive registered mail which you have to sign for. Otherwise, they can't prove your receipt in order to take action. This goes for jury duty too, I never registered for that when sent.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 08:09 PM   #56
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You don't have to sign or register for anything unless you receive registered mail which you have to sign for. Otherwise, they can't prove your receipt in order to take action. This goes for jury duty too, I never registered for that when sent.
I don't think I'll be taking legal advice from you ... thankyouverymuch.

Got a source?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 08:13 PM   #57
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I don't think I'll be taking legal advice from you ... thankyouverymuch.

Got a source?
I think that would be wise..

Ignorance is not an excuse in the eyes of the law. The courts may decide to just ignore the fact that you ignored Jury summons, OR, they'll send an officer to your door to serve you your summons! Whether you claim to have received the summons or not, your name is on a list. The judge and the prosecuting attorney look at that list. Some judges and some prosecutors will just ignore those who don't show up, saying it's not worth it. Others will put them on the NEXT case and send an officer to serve the letter in person. Still others will file a warrant for your arrest. Jury duty is not optional. After you are arrested, you might claim that you never got the letter and might get the judge to believe you and drop the case. But guess what, you still got ARRESTED, still went to court, still paid court costs and other fines (many states have a 'warrant fee' you have to pay if a warrant is issued for you), etc.

A relative of mine was a court clerk for 30 years, retired 2 years ago. She's heard all the excuses about not getting the letter or "You didn't send it certified so you can't do anything' or blah-blah-blah stuff. Some judges let them go, some judges let them go... with a steep steep fine. One guy was in for the second time who had refused the certified letter, after being released (the judge made sure he was on the NEXT jury list) on the benefit of the doubt. He went downstairs to the lockup! I think he spent like a week in jail and had to pay hundreds in fines. It's just not worth it. It's pretty easy to get out of, honestly, and your employer is required by law to pay you if you miss work for jury duty...

Selective service is a mandate in the US for all males age 18. Doesn't matter if you get a notice or not. I never got a notice, but you can't sign up for federal student aide, student loans, etc. without it. In fact, my college like many colleges require you to have filed for selective service before you can enroll (the government puts the squeeze on them by denying them certain grants if they don't). So, I just signed up shortly after my 18th birthday anyway, since I was applying for college at the same time!

I believe you can't renew your drivers license without being signed up for selective service either. Which, for many states, happens at 18 anyway. It's that way for Missouri, usually your first license (intermediate license, has certain restrictions) expires around your 18th birthday, you need to renew it in order to get you 'full' drivers license. Then it expires again around your 21st birthday, to get you to renew it to remove the big red "Under 21 until..." letters from the DL. But THEN you finally get a license that lasts for 6 years! lol.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:16 PM   #58
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I guess lawmaker wants to bring back the draft, even though it wouldn't effect me, I hope it doesn't come to be.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/opinio...html?hpt=hp_t2

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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:23 PM   #59
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I guess lawmaker wants to bring back the draft, even though it wouldn't effect me, I hope it doesn't come to be.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/25/opinio...html?hpt=hp_t2

Hugh
Interesting. Though I suspect there have been others in the past, one great thing about this nation is that one lawmaker cannot change anything, it takes the support of others. Let's just hope he doesn't get the support!

I am honored to have members in my family who have served, and it's true that in the US, less than 1% of the population serves in the armed forces. But, perhaps our country could focus on less wars instead of more men and women to fight them?

Now that's not a political statement. I'm not / won't give my opinion on Iraq and Afghanistan, I recorgnize and affirm a need for defenseand a military. However, anything that makes our nation really struggle with the decision to go to war, is a good thing in my opinion. I heard a quote about the baseball hall of fame that said "If you can't say yes in three seconds they don't belong there". Things like a smaller, all volunteer military does the same thing to congress and the President. The decision to go to war should be forced to be something that is an obvious, no other solution need, one where it isn't even a discussion, where it just IS, rather than something that is as frighteningly silly as "Well, we COULD go to war, but we'd need to bulk up the forces first, which should we do?". If there is an alternative option, that IS the option.

So, long story short, I'm actually not opposed to selective service. If ever should a situation arise in which this country has a legitimate need for defense and the military cannot handle it... well! But I'm not at all in favor of compulsory service in peacetime at all..
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:37 PM   #60
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IMO we won't see another draft until we have a conflict that requires congress to declare war.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:52 PM   #61
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You enjoy all the freedoms as a result of sacrifices made by others before you...man up and enroll. There is no free ride in life...real life.
Thank you, exactly! The government is effectively making a deal with young male adults - we'll continue to provide services like police, fire, roads, education, etc... And in return, we want to know you won't skip town like a spineless little weasel if the country needs you to help defend it. It amazes me that kids today can't understand that (or are too selfish to acknowledge it).

Like others have said, though, the draft is a legacy of a different time. Reinstating a draft would be immediate political suicide, and would be pointless given the number of active duty, reservists, and national guard we have available. A volunteer, trained military is always preferable to plucking random teenagers off the street and sending them into battle.

Given the recent changes in military policy - I wonder if females will have to start registering too?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:59 PM   #62
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IMO we won't see another draft until we have a conflict that requires congress to declare war.
Unlike last 2 "undeclared" war drafts ...... Korea and Vietnam .......
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:27 PM   #63
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Will it ever be implemented?


Very unlikely, don't be scared just sign it and be done. Personally I think it should be a requirement but that's me. I loved being in the Army but if I could do it over again Id prob sign up for Navy or Chair Force.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:02 AM   #64
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Unlike last 2 "undeclared" war drafts ...... Korea and Vietnam .......
Well thats kind of part my reasoning, the public won't stand for it after those debacles, unless it's a real total war like WW2 or something of the sort.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:09 AM   #65
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I remember when I turned 18 and registered and I was like "I'll never join the military and if theres a draft I'll move away yadda yadda"

Then I turned 20 and joined the military lol.

As others have said though everyone has to do it, if you don't you can get screwed pretty good. I know you can't get school loans without it and it affects getting jobs, especially state or federal jobs and I *think* it can screw up your taxes too.

As for a draft, I wouldn't worry about it. We have an all volunteer service (the way it should be in my opinion since people can't choose what country they are born in) who is literally chaptering people out because there is an overflow.

I wouldn't worry about a draft. If so there are MANY things you can do to get out of it. (Consciences objector, tell them you wet the bed after the age of 12 (its a trait of serial killers and arsonists and IS asked when you join), etc etc.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:09 AM   #66
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Well thats kind of part my reasoning, the public won't stand for it after those debacles, unless it's a real total war like WW2 or something of the sort.
As far as the public is concerned the "war to end all wars" was fought 1914-1918. Congress quit declaring wars 24 years later .......
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:18 AM   #67
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I remember when I turned 18 and registered and I was like "I'll never join the military and if theres a draft I'll move away yadda yadda"

Then I turned 20 and joined the military lol.

As others have said though everyone has to do it, if you don't you can get screwed pretty good. I know you can't get school loans without it and it affects getting jobs, especially state or federal jobs and I *think* it can screw up your taxes too.

As for a draft, I wouldn't worry about it. We have an all volunteer service (the way it should be in my opinion since people can't choose what country they are born in) who is literally chaptering people out because there is an overflow.

I wouldn't worry about a draft. If so there are MANY things you can do to get out of it. (Consciences objector, tell them you wet the bed after the age of 12 (its a trait of serial killers and arsonists and IS asked when you join), etc etc.
Thank you for your service!

You're right on the taxes though, I forgot that one. The IRS won't issue you a refund if you aren't registered. For lots of men in that 18-25 range, that means losing a bunch of money as they are likely not making a lot of money and thus getting all or nearly all of their taxes back. If you don't register, Uncle Sam keeps it!
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:19 AM   #68
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Spineless *******s aside, it would be interesting to see how the Selective Service would treat the obesity epidemic. Would one be required to undergo x amount of weeks of weight loss/ fat camp then start boot camp/ training or would they merely be classified medically unfit and exempt?
PT the hell out of you till the dirty mouth breathing is purged from your body, or wreck your life with an other than honerable discharge.

I signed up for selective service when I was 18. There were lots of PSA's about it in the 80's. Didn't even give it a 2nd thought.

Don't do it you'll regret it at some point when you want something from the Federal Government.

I'm an officer and against the draft. If you don't want to serve, I don't want you serving. Then again, choosing to be Jody when your number is called is incredibly pathetic.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:56 AM   #69
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I don't think I'll be taking legal advice from you ... thankyouverymuch.

Got a source?
It called the law. If they decide to penalize you, they would first have to prove you received the mail.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 05:03 AM   #70
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It called the law. If they decide to penalize you, they would first have to prove you received the mail.
No, not really.

The law states that you have to report for jury duty if summoned. If you fail to report, a warrant can be made for your arrest. Some courts, it's routine. They have a list of who showed up and who didn't, those who didn't get a warrant. After your arrested, you can plead your case and perhaps win, but you still got arrested, you'll still pay court costs, you'll still pay other fines and penalties.

Also, regardless of whether or not you'll "Get away with it", what you were suggesting was a felony. It's still against the law even if you have a decent chance of 'getting away with it'.

Innocent until proven guilty is a great concept, but it's put into place by taking the innocent into custody and trying to prove them guilty! There's simply no reason to put that theory to the test. It's pretty easy to get out of if it's a real issue. There's a bazillion legal excuses you can use. And if you get some hard nosed judge who just won't let you out, so what? 9 times out of 10 it never goes to a jury trial anyway and it's settled out of court, so all you do is show up for an hour and go home. You get a day off work with pay, AND you get some cash from the court as well. Plus, there's that whole, supporting one of the liberties that makes this country great that we the people still have a lot of control and we don't leave everything up to the government!

Anyway, your statement was "You don't have to if". That's not at all true, you DO still have to. You just might be able, with a decent lawyer, to fight it if.

Also, you have to register for jury duty and for selective service. It's the law. Failing to do so is a felony. The letters they send you in the mail are courtesy reminders, but you still have to register whether you get something in the mail or not.

You have to file your taxes even if the IRS doesn't send you a certified reminder in the mail. When you become an adult in this country, you have certain responsibilities that exist whether or not you got the courtesy reminder in the mail. I didn't register for selective service when something came in the mail, I registered online the week after I turned 18. It's not optional, so I did it. It's very difficult to be a college student over 18 who hasn't registered!

Also, "The law" doesn't recognize ignorance. Not knowing it was illegal, not knowing you had to, not getting the letter, forgetting your court date, all of those 'excuses' mean nothing. Citizens are required to know and abide by the law, not abide by the laws for which they were recently and expressly informed...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:04 AM   #71
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Thank you, exactly! The government is effectively making a deal with young male adults - we'll continue to provide services like police, fire, roads, education, etc... And in return, we want to know you won't skip town like a spineless little weasel if the country needs you to help defend it. It amazes me that kids today can't understand that (or are too selfish to acknowledge it).

Like others have said, though, the draft is a legacy of a different time. Reinstating a draft would be immediate political suicide, and would be pointless given the number of active duty, reservists, and national guard we have available. A volunteer, trained military is always preferable to plucking random teenagers off the street and sending them into battle.

Given the recent changes in military policy - I wonder if females will have to start registering too?
I'm fully well aware of the above stated. I don't like the idea of the government forcing prime-aged citizens into battle risking everything for something that isn't necessary at all. Prime example: Vietnam. A **** ton of people died there and was utterly pointless. Who called the shots? Government.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:07 AM   #72
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?......Who called the shots? Government.
Yeah, we should really do something about that .......
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:15 AM   #73
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I'm fully well aware of the above stated. I don't like the idea of the government forcing prime-aged citizens into battle risking everything for something that isn't necessary at all. Prime example: Vietnam. A **** ton of people died there and was utterly pointless. Who called the shots? Government.

Tell me Mr. Squilly, who should be "calling the shots"?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:17 AM   #74
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Tell me Mr. Squilly, who should be "calling the shots"?
The People.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:28 AM   #75
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I signed up for the Selective Service when it was required. After 9/11 many of us over 40 tried to update our details just in case. They turned us down, which was so frustrating that somebody sued them and won. They took details for men <45.

If OP doesn't want to go to war, I can understand that. However, there's more to the military than war. There is also disaster relief, medics, engineers, etc. There are plenty of jobs for conscientious objectors. Breaking the law is not some principled stand IMO but cowardice. Besides, if OP doesn't like the law then lobby Congress to change it, perhaps making clear what the alternative service would be for conscientious objectors.
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