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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:09 AM   #76
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...I watched the beach scene in Saving Private Ryan. My niece is turning 18 this week. I would never dream of her, or other women her age, being knee-deep in that somewhere.
I gotta' say, I don't want my son there either. Omaha Beach was awful.

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The source does not say all women..that's OK I do think there are women in the military that can carry the weight. The question is whats it cost them in energy?
As I understand it, while the Defense Department is opening up combat roles, this doesn't mean that women will all flock to infantry and have to hike up and down the Shahi-Kot valley. Some women certainly will, but they'll be exceptional.

Historically, women have served in the military and even died in combat, but until now they didn't receive the awards and accolades that men did because they weren't supposed to be in combat. This change will fix that situation.

Currently, women serve in many combat roles as pilots, engineers, medics, and intelligence officers. Those roles don't require humping full battle rattle along the spine of the Hindu Kush.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 07:00 AM   #77
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I gotta' say, I don't want my son there either. Omaha Beach was awful.



As I understand it, while the Defense Department is opening up combat roles, this doesn't mean that women will all flock to infantry and have to hike up and down the Shahi-Kot valley. Some women certainly will, but they'll be exceptional.

Historically, women have served in the military and even died in combat, but until now they didn't receive the awards and accolades that men did because they weren't supposed to be in combat. This change will fix that situation.

Currently, women serve in many combat roles as pilots, engineers, medics, and intelligence officers. Those roles don't require humping full battle rattle along the spine of the Hindu Kush.
You mistake my ramblings for disbelief that it'll work, it will I have no worries.

Women can receive all the same awards and decorations their peers can (CMB/CAB)

This change opens up MOS's that were restricted in the past to females to include special forces in 2015.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 09:56 AM   #78
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I find it amusing that there are people in this thread who I'm sure who have never served a day in their life in the military who think they know what's best for the military and women.

If a woman is capable of doing the job and meets the same requirements that a man has to, then she should absolutely be able to serve. A woman serving in a combat role has more balls than any male on the internet who's never served - and that includes me.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:46 PM   #79
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It seems silly to restrict the role of women in the military, if they're up for it, why not?

Although I must say that if a woman wants to be a fighter pilot she can't go through millions of of training and then get broody and have to quit because they want a baby. Ok, so sterilising them till they serve an appropriate amount of time in service may be inhumane, but these (ok, probably very isolated) incidents are ridiculous.

How about in the next draft, it's all women that are called up and us men can stay at home and make spitfires out of balsa wood, and then flirt with American GI's?
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:50 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by CHAOS STEP View Post
It seems silly to restrict the role of women in the military, if they're up for it, why not?

Although I must say that if a woman wants to be a fighter pilot she can't go through millions of of training and then get broody and have to quit because they want a baby. Ok, so sterilising them till they serve an appropriate amount of time in service may be inhumane, but these (ok, probably very isolated) incidents are ridiculous.

How about in the next draft, it's all women that are called up and us men can stay at home and make spitfires out of balsa wood, and then flirt with American GI's?
Wow. The attitudes that some on here have about women are downright scary.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 12:57 PM   #81
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Wow. The attitudes that some on here have about women are downright scary.
Well, from a cost perspective he does have a point. A fighter pilot isn't flying when she's pregnant, so what good is all that money and training doing?

But it doesn't help that the military refuses to pay for contraceptives like birth control (at least to my knowledge) because of their archaic principles on the subject.

The key balance here is to pay for contraceptives as part of your standard active duty Tri-Care, and discourage female pilots (or others in such positions) from becoming pregnant.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:03 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by CHAOS STEP View Post
It seems silly to restrict the role of women in the military, if they're up for it, why not?

Although I must say that if a woman wants to be a fighter pilot she can't go through millions of of training and then get broody and have to quit because they want a baby. Ok, so sterilising them till they serve an appropriate amount of time in service may be inhumane, but these (ok, probably very isolated) incidents are ridiculous.

How about in the next draft, it's all women that are called up and us men can stay at home and make spitfires out of balsa wood, and then flirt with American GI's?
by that argument you have men who quite because they want to raise a family so your argument is pretty much crap.

As for the part were they are out of action for a little while because they are pregnant, guess what there are a lot of jobs in the airforce that require a pilot to do it but they never leave the ground. So again non issue.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:03 PM   #83
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Well, from a cost perspective he does have a point. A fighter pilot isn't flying when she's pregnant, so what good is all that money and training doing?

But it doesn't help that the military refuses to pay for contraceptives like birth control (at least to my knowledge) because of their archaic principles on the subject.

The key balance here is to pay for contraceptives as part of your standard active duty Tri-Care, and discourage female pilots (or others in such positions) from becoming pregnant.
I'm not so much talking about what they're saying, but how they are saying it.

Between this:

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Originally Posted by Merkava_4 View Post
I'm thinking these so called "women" going into combat are gonna be the men type women anyway. Butch haircuts and the whole 9 yards. Not much difference from having a bonafide male soldier in there.
and

this:

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Originally Posted by CHAOS STEP View Post
It seems silly to restrict the role of women in the military, if they're up for it, why not?

Although I must say that if a woman wants to be a fighter pilot she can't go through millions of of training and then get broody and have to quit because they want a baby. Ok, so sterilising them till they serve an appropriate amount of time in service may be inhumane, but these (ok, probably very isolated) incidents are ridiculous.

How about in the next draft, it's all women that are called up and us men can stay at home and make spitfires out of balsa wood, and then flirt with American GI's?
I worry that these types of people are breeding and passing down ignorance to another generation.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:06 PM   #84
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I think the females flying the planes and such know what makes babies and when it's appropriate and not to have one. It is after all their career...

I much more concerned with them guys that can seem to keep their junk in their pants. Want to watch a sobering movie watch, The Invisible War it'll show you what pathetic louts we can be.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:10 PM   #85
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I think the females flying the planes and such know what makes babies and when it's appropriate and not to have one. It is after all their career...

I much more concerned with them guys that can seem to keep their junk in their pants. Want to watch a sobering movie watch, The Invisible War it'll show you what pathetic louts we can be.
I'm concerned with both, because I believe in gender equality. Women are just as stupid as men. Having been in the military, I can tell you first hand. I've seen men abuse their wives, and I've seen women get pregnant to avoid deployment. I've seen men who can't keep it in their pants, and women who have slept with everybody in the brigade.

The difference here, though between men and women is that if a male "can't keep it in his pants", barring him getting an STD he can still fly a plane.

A woman on the other hand, if she can't keep it in her pants and winds up pregnant, can't fly a plane.

Reality here is that there are biological differences between men and women, and there are times when we must take those into account and plan accordingly. It costs a boatload of money to train pilots. We can't afford to lose those pilots to downtime, especially if it's preventable. If you want to do those things, transfer out or ask for a reassignment to planning or something, or wait until you're high enough in the command chain that you're not doing any flying.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:17 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by CHAOS STEP View Post
It seems silly to restrict the role of women in the military, if they're up for it, why not?

Although I must say that if a woman wants to be a fighter pilot she can't go through millions of of training and then get broody and have to quit because they want a baby. Ok, so sterilising them till they serve an appropriate amount of time in service may be inhumane, but these (ok, probably very isolated) incidents are ridiculous.

How about in the next draft, it's all women that are called up and us men can stay at home and make spitfires out of balsa wood, and then flirt with American GI's?

You forgot to mention they would have problems ******** in a ditch like men do not to mention they get that menses thing.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 01:26 PM   #87
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I'm concerned with both, because I believe in gender equality. Women are just as stupid as men. Having been in the military, I can tell you first hand. I've seen men abuse their wives, and I've seen women get pregnant to avoid deployment. I've seen men who can't keep it in their pants, and women who have slept with everybody in the brigade.

The difference here, though between men and women is that if a male "can't keep it in his pants", barring him getting an STD he can still fly a plane.

A woman on the other hand, if she can't keep it in her pants and winds up pregnant, can't fly a plane.

Reality here is that there are biological differences between men and women, and there are times when we must take those into account and plan accordingly. It costs a boatload of money to train pilots. We can't afford to lose those pilots to downtime, especially if it's preventable. If you want to do those things, transfer out or ask for a reassignment to planning or something, or wait until you're high enough in the command chain that you're not doing any flying.
We're not talking about private Jane we're talking about Commissioned Officers, and Warrant Officers in the US military you give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:17 PM   #88
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We're not talking about private Jane we're talking about Commissioned Officers, and Warrant Officers in the US military you give them the benefit of the doubt.
Where have I suggested otherwise?
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:23 PM   #89
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You mistake my ramblings for disbelief that it'll work, it will I have no worries.

Women can receive all the same awards and decorations their peers can (CMB/CAB)
My understanding was that women couldn't receive the Combat Infantry Badge.

Quote:
...This change opens up MOS's that were restricted in the past to females to include special forces in 2015.
Right, I'm just trying to clarify that the change isn't limited to infantry or special forces roles that's just the most controversial part.

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...

I much more concerned with them guys that can seem to keep their junk in their pants. Want to watch a sobering movie watch, The Invisible War it'll show you what pathetic louts we can be.
Do you think that this will change when more women are throughout the armed forces, including combat roles?
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:31 PM   #90
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Where have I suggested otherwise?
The actions you describe are private Jane actions, not career soldier actions. Career soldiers do not avoid deployments by getting pregnant.

----------

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Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
My understanding was that women couldn't receive the Combat Infantry Badge.



Right, I'm just trying to clarify that the change isn't limited to infantry or special forces roles that's just the most controversial part.



Do you think that this will change when more women are throughout the armed forces, including combat roles?
Men who are not in the Infantry cannot receive a combat infantry badge hence the name so both men and women are equal in that one...

Beyond those two (or the other male only MOS's) I don't think there is a change

Yes I do..
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:34 PM   #91
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The actions you describe are private Jane actions, not career soldier actions.
You're missing the underlying point, which is that we spend a lot of money training pilots, if you want to sit at home and be a parent, pick a different job.

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Career soldiers do not avoid deployments by getting pregnant/
Some do. And the point was to highlight that men are no different than women.

I can say the same to you, career male soldiers "keep it in their pants".
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:44 PM   #92
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You're missing the underlying point, which is that we spend a lot of money training pilots, if you want to sit at home and be a parent, pick a different job.



Some do. And the point was to highlight that men are no different than women.

I can say the same to you, career male soldiers "keep it in their pants".
Actually career male soldiers do not and that is the problem.

http://news.yahoo.com/us-general-cha...193011953.html

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/13...he-us-military

The difference is it just gets swept under the rug, then when the soldiers actually fight back they get told "rape is an occupational hazard of military service"


Last year, Burke filed a lawsuit in federal court on behalf of 18 men and women seeking to bring former Secretaries of Defence Donald Rumsfeld and Robert Gates to justice. The lawsuit alleges that they oversaw a system that has deprived rape survivors of their constitutional rights. In December 2011, the court dismissed the survivors' lawsuit, ruling that rape is an occupational hazard of military service. In March, Burke filed another suit specifically targeting the Marine Barracks in Washington, DC.

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...335441624.html
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 02:53 PM   #93
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Actually career male soldiers do not and that is the problem.
That's not the point here, though. You keep missing them. I'm not saying that one happens more or less than the other, it doesn't matter. What matters is that both genders are equally told to keep it in their pants, and both are punished accordingly. I can't speak for these cases, because I'm not the one deciding nor am I privy to all the facts.

Also, there are no or very little statistics on women raping others, or men being raped in the military. So it may very well be an underreported problem.

The bottom line, and what we are discussing here, is ensuring that when we pay hundreds of thousands, or millions of dollars to train pilots, that they are fit and ready to fly, and that we recognize gender biological differences. Ensure women have access to contraceptives from Tri-Care, and keep them from becoming pregnant while on flying duty. Otherwise, it's a misallocation of resources and frankly, it's borderline fraud and waste.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:05 PM   #94
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That's not the point here, though. You keep missing them. I'm not saying that one happens more or less than the other, it doesn't matter. What matters is that both genders are equally told to keep it in their pants, and both are punished accordingly. I can't speak for these cases, because I'm not the one deciding nor am I privy to all the facts.

Also, there are no or very little statistics on women raping others, or men being raped in the military. So it may very well be an underreported problem.

The bottom line, and what we are discussing here, is ensuring that when we pay hundreds of thousands, or millions of dollars to train pilots, that they are fit and ready to fly, and that we recognize gender biological differences. Ensure women have access to contraceptives from Tri-Care, and keep them from becoming pregnant while on flying duty. Otherwise, it's a misallocation of resources and frankly, it's borderline fraud and waste.

Or like I said before we can let her be a big girl and decide when she wants to get pregnant because she is an commissioned/warrant officer and is thinking about her long term career.

P.S. Tricare does cover birth control

TRICARE covers the following forms of birth control when prescribed by a TRICARE-authorized provider:

Contraceptive diaphragm, including measurement, purchase and replacement;
Intrauterine devices, including surgical insertion, removal and replacement;
Prescription contraceptives, including the Preven Emergency Contraceptive Kit containing special doses of regular birth control pills and a self-administered pregnancy test;
Surgical sterilization, male and female.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:06 PM   #95
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Or like I said before we can let her be a big girl and decide when she wants to get pregnant because she is an commissioned/warrant officer and is thinking about her long term career.

P.S. Tricare does cover birth control

TRICARE covers the following forms of birth control when prescribed by a TRICARE-authorized provider:

Contraceptive diaphragm, including measurement, purchase and replacement;
Intrauterine devices, including surgical insertion, removal and replacement;
Prescription contraceptives, including the Preven Emergency Contraceptive Kit containing special doses of regular birth control pills and a self-administered pregnancy test;
Surgical sterilization, male and female.
Good then, that's a great start. When did they start doing that?

Idk why you keep saying "let her be a big girl" as if that's a counter to anything I've said.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:13 PM   #96
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Good then, that's a great start. When did they start doing that?

Idk why you keep saying "let her be a big girl" as if that's a counter to anything I've said.
You keep insisting that women go out and become pregnant to avoid something women don't do that immature girls do that. The Army has very few commissioned/warrant officer immature girls.

It's been covered that I know of since I got married in 2004.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:17 PM   #97
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You keep insisting that women go out and become pregnant to avoid something women don't do that immature girls do that. The Army has very few commissioned/warrant officer immature girls.
but they still exist. All I've said is that women whom are pilots should not be getting pregnant, even if they think they are making "big girl decisions". You can be a pilot for 6 months out of flight school and make that "big girl decision" to get pregnant, then be out of flying for a year. That's a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.

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It's been covered that I know of since I got married in 2004.
Interesting. That's good then.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:25 PM   #98
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but they still exist. All I've said is that women whom are pilots should not be getting pregnant, even if they think they are making "big girl decisions". You can be a pilot for 6 months out of flight school and make that "big girl decision" to get pregnant, then be out of flying for a year. That's a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.



Interesting. That's good then.
And they have a minimum of 5 more years of piloting for you to get your moneys worth.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:27 PM   #99
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but they still exist. All I've said is that women whom are pilots should not be getting pregnant, even if they think they are making "big girl decisions". You can be a pilot for 6 months out of flight school and make that "big girl decision" to get pregnant, then be out of flying for a year. That's a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.

I'm sure there are men who are trained and take leaves for whatever reasons. That's a huge waste of taxpayer dollars.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:02 PM   #100
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I'm concerned with both, because I believe in gender equality. Women are just as stupid as men. Having been in the military, I can tell you first hand. I've seen men abuse their wives, and I've seen women get pregnant to avoid deployment. I've seen men who can't keep it in their pants, and women who have slept with everybody in the brigade.

The difference here, though between men and women is that if a male "can't keep it in his pants", barring him getting an STD he can still fly a plane.

A woman on the other hand, if she can't keep it in her pants and winds up pregnant, can't fly a plane.

Reality here is that there are biological differences between men and women, and there are times when we must take those into account and plan accordingly. It costs a boatload of money to train pilots. We can't afford to lose those pilots to downtime, especially if it's preventable. If you want to do those things, transfer out or ask for a reassignment to planning or something, or wait until you're high enough in the command chain that you're not doing any flying.
As already addressed there are a lot of jobs that require a pilot but they are not flying.
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