Panetta opens combat roles to women

[dinggus]

Originally Posted by 4JNA

how long can you be in a combat situation, or have you been in a combat situation without a shower. or support. or supplies. not based on MOS? it was your statistic, just wondering.

15 months in Iraq, I was grateful enough to have a shower every night. But having buddies in the main combat MOS's they have gone weeks.

a FEMALE 2LT that was in my previous unit would kick your ass. any day, on any test, and at any distance. nothing personal, i don't know you or pretend to. this lady was a hero by any measure. she was a track star in college, could out run me at any distance up to full marathon or above, and went on to run with the Army marathon team and had a run at the Olympic marathon trials. if you have done better than that, then you win, more power to you... this was one of the most amazing and FIT people i've ever know. and that is saying something.

my experience has been enlisted Marines, injured and sent home. rehab/beer. enlisted Army, sent to fight for freedom/pick up trash on several continents. would still be doing it, but liked my wife more than my team. and then had kids. best of luck to all. women and men alike.

She's one in a few, just like I have stated. It's not common to see a female in better physical shape than a male. If a female can handle the same work load as a male in the combat MOS, great. If not, I don't want to see standards dropped.

Thanks for your service, you're a better man than I am. If my wife ever had me chose her or the military, she'd be packing her bags.

[hulugu]

Originally Posted by dinggus

...
I already stated that American females are pampered, show me a female American that will do what this woman has done, I have never seen a female carry anything on top of their heads in the US.

That's really not the point, though. Women are capable. Maybe not the women you've been around, but that's hardly representative of the sex. Some women will be strong enough, mentally and physically to go into the infantry. Full stop.

Originally Posted by 4JNA

...a FEMALE 2LT that was in my previous unit would kick your ass. any day, on any test, and at any distance. nothing personal, i don't know you or pretend to. this lady was a hero by any measure. she was a track star in college, could out PT and out run me at any distance up to full marathon or above, and went on to run with the Army marathon team and had a run at the Olympic marathon trials. if you have done better than that, then you win, more power to you... this was one of the most amazing and FIT people i've ever know. and that is saying something....

Exactly, those who serve in elite forces aren't going to be the whiny girls or pampered boys, but especially fit and tough people.

I've been on NOLS courses—hardly Camp Mackall, but I did notice that the quality of whining was never particular to high or lower registered voices. At some point, everyone complained.

I remember one guy moaning about ******** in a bucket, to which the female instructor replied, we can always leave the bucket.

The women who want to serve in combat, in special forces, should be able to do so if they can fulfill the requirements and not get docked because some girl in Iraq thought her load was too heavy.

[4JNA]

Originally Posted by dinggus

15 months in Iraq, I was grateful enough to have a shower every night. But having buddies in the main combat MOS's they have gone weeks.

She's one in a few, just like I have stated. It's not common to see a female in better physical shape than a male. If a female can handle the same work load as a male in the combat MOS, great. If not, I don't want to see standards dropped.

Thanks for your service, you're a better man than I am. If my wife ever had me chose her or the military, she'd be packing her bags.

wow. i really missed the point. service is all the same. you rule, glad you survived. that was a tough deployment. been there, i get it.

i am not a better man. you are safe. this lady kicked my ass too. anytime she wanted. i beat her at some crazy long distance races, nothing more. she beat me at EVERYTHING else. always. i would love to tell you different.

my only point was there are people/guys/girls who are qualified for ANY job. anywhere. anytime. and gender has NOTHING to do with it.

there were months/several month deployments without showers or support or supplies. my only point was that gender/people/personnel should not be tied to a specific deployment. i am only trying to say, if ANYONE can do the job, they should be good to go.

i really would love to be as bad ass as this lady. i am no where close. that is the truth. friends for ever, always trying to keep up, and very much ok with that.

thank YOU and everyone else as well for their service. we all live here and hope for the best here. family/friends safe, freedom preserved. i'd like to end with SEMPER FI. it seems to fit.

Originally Posted by hulugu

I've been on NOLS courses—hardly Camp Mackall, but I did notice that the quality of whining was never particular to high or lower registered voices. At some point, everyone complained.

sorry, just saw this. truth. it all sounds the same at the end of of the day. i spent my time quoting bevis and butthead. this sucks, i wish it would suck more.... made the other 10 laugh, made the pushing the stupid jeep in the sand suck less. or so it would seem.

[Technarchy]

Originally Posted by hulugu

The women who want to serve in combat, in special forces, should be able to do so if they can fulfill the requirements and not get docked because some girl in Iraq thought her load was too heavy.

I agree, but zero modified standards. Not one drop. It would dishonor those who earned it properly.

As I said, I personally don't give a damn if a female wants to be a ground pounder, but there can be no modified standards. If you cant hack it, you get sent home, end of story.

And stop with the PT stud glorification. All those that served should know better.

I once had female nursing cadets join us for a 10k ruck. Well there was a hefty mid 30's E5 that wasn't as light on his feet, so they were giving him crap about age, speed and needing to PT more. Pissed me off. I told the E5 to be a casualty and the female cadets had to carry him and his gear mostly uphill for the next 2 miles or so. Those youthful PT scores meant nothing then. There was crying, puking and drooling, and falling as all these 110 - 130lbs cadets tried to get this 200+lbs E5 back to barracks.

All that gazelle like 21 year old fitness 300 PT score did not translate well to a combat scenario.

[rhett7660]

Originally Posted by Technarchy

I agree, but zero modified standards. Not one drop. It would dishonor those who earned it properly.

As I said, I personally don't give a damn if a female wants to be a ground pounder, but there can be no modified standards. If you cant hack it, you get sent home, end of story.

And stop with the PT stud glorification. All those that served should know better.

I once had female nursing cadets join us for a 10k ruck. Well there was a hefty mid 30's E5 that wasn't as light on his feet, so they were giving him crap about age, speed and needing to PT more. Pissed me off. I told the E5 to be a casualty and the female cadets had to carry him and his gear mostly uphill for the next 2 miles or so. Those youthful PT scores meant nothing then. There was crying, puking and drooling, and falling as all these 110 - 130lbs cadets tried to get this 200+lbs E5 back to barracks.

All that gazelle like 21 year old fitness 300 PT score did not translate well to a combat scenario.

And for the sake of this conversation, from what I have read there hasn't been any concerns or wants about changing how we train our personnel.

[4JNA]

Originally Posted by Technarchy

I agree, but zero modified standards. Not one drop. It would dishonor those who earned it properly.

As I said, I personally don't give a damn if a female wants to be a ground pounder, but there can be no modified standards. If you cant hack it, you get sent home, end of story....

totally agree with this. in the RA there were different minimum PT scores for age as well as gender. my experience on the other side of the line, there was no change for age, and then gender didn't matter then as it wasn't an option. the single score would absolutely be required/needed with no regard to gender. 82/92/11:54 period. you can carry the 100lb ruck or you can't. period.

this thread brought back lots of amazing memories. SFAS still stands as the most challenging thing i've done in my 40 something years. other parts of training were tough/hard, SERE sucked for example, but not in the 'trying to kill you or get you to quit' way that the assessment course was. life changing, you end up thinking, i made it through that, i can make it through 'fricken anything.

looked up Nasty Nick (link is a video of candidates running the course) and was amazed to see them wearing helmets. i get it from a safety standpoint, just different from way back when. if you watch, realize that anything 'Yellow' is not able to be touched. at all. ever. if you did (or maybe if they thought you were slow or just for fun...) you got 'you failed to properly negotiate that obstacle candidate, would you like to try again. ?' and then you said yes, only yes, always yes no matter what... what a mind game. they were always like 'glad you are here candidate, we are looking for people who can't climb ropes' and then shaking their heads while writing or pretending to write in the little black books. crazy days for sure.

[hulugu]

Originally Posted by 4JNA

...sorry, just saw this. truth. it all sounds the same at the end of of the day. i spent my time quoting bevis and butthead. this sucks, i wish it would suck more.... made the other 10 laugh, made the pushing the stupid jeep in the sand suck less. or so it would seem.

After a couple of days, the phrase after finishing something hard was "Are we dead yet?" "No, not yet" was the reply.

After a crew flipped a raft and we managed to retrieve everyone on the river and their gear on the river bank, they're cheered "We're not dead!" in unison.

I'm often more worried about the quiet guy near the back. He's hurting in a way that someone bitching and making jokes isn't.