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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:15 PM   #101
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Super duper! Where is OSX 10.8.3...
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:18 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by wbeasley View Post
It's for tinkerers and non-thinkers who just want a cheap product.
Even if this were true, I don't know many tinkerers that are non-thinkers.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:22 PM   #103
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So... what is the most important thing for Apple, making money or making good products? You seem to say that making good products is the most important thing because it brings in money, but that would mean that making money is the most important thing, and they make good products to accomplish that.
Is this for real? Do you really not understand what we're all saying or are you just trying to save your bad argument? Let's try one last time:

- Apple has a mission to make the best products it can. (You don't have to agree with how they carry this out to believe it's their mission).

- It also needs to make money to survive as a company. A lesson they learned the hard way in the 80s-90s, partly by getting away from their core mission.

- Luckily, if they stay true to their mission, they also earn a lot of money, which lets them continue to make products they believe are best in breed.

- Thus, it's 100% believable that Apple believes that making the best products is the most important thing to them. If they don't make the best products, the money will not follow. The products come before the money, both literally and in their minds. Most companies get this backwards. Apple has it correct.

In other words... If Cook weighs the same as a duck, he's made of wood. And therefore... A witch!
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:26 PM   #104
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Sorry Tim, Apple didn't invent the halo effect phrase. I have been using it in software sales since the early 90's to describe the additional downstream value you get or your customers can get from an unrelated software implementation...and I didn't invent the phrase either, I read it in an article somewhere.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:28 PM   #105
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Indeed pipeline is full of mini, maxi, widi, but it will not change any of the same thing. Brace yourselves for for steady loss of market share and whatever comes from it.

Apple may full their followers, but not investors. Quiet please, I think I heard a toilet flash...
Why do so many people obsess about market share? Would you rather be Microsoft or Apple? Samsung or Apple? Repeatedly the statistics show that Apple has a small percent of the market share but a majority of the profits in a given area. You can't buy stuff with market share. You buy it with money. Apple is making lots of money and if investors are too dumb to recognize the difference between making money and having market share, then good riddance.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:29 PM   #106
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Ok, please point to the cheap Apple products flooding the lower end markets, you know, just to make a dollar.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...513922882.html

On the way.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:29 PM   #107
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Sorry Tim, Apple didn't invent the halo effect phrase. I have been using it in software sales since the early 90's to describe the additional downstream value you get or your customers can get from an unrelated software implementation...and I didn't invent the phrase either, I read it in an article somewhere.
The Halo Effect is a perceptual bias that has been researched by psychologists for decades. It is nothing new.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:31 PM   #108
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This was what they taught in business schools 20 years ago. What they teach now is Stakeholder Theory. A business exists to meet the needs of all the stakeholders which include shareholders, employees, customers, the community, etc. Not all stakeholders get the same priority, but managers have to balance the needs of all those people. So, I wish people would give the old "we exist only to make money" thing a rest. Granted, if a company is not profitable it simply fails. But good management requires a balancing of many constituencies.
Great post. I work for an organizational development company, and I got a master's degree in the subject a few years ago. It's what my company believes, and it's what I was taught in grad school. Far too many posts on these forums devolve into simplistic "greedy corporations vs. screwed consumers" tirades: "All Apple wants to do is make profits, and we're forced to buy their over-priced prodcuts." I rarely hear the converse: "I'm a consumer, and all I care about is getting as much as I can while paying as little as possible." Or, "I'm an employee, and I care nothing about my work or doing a good job. I just want to make as big a paycheck as possible while putting forth as little effort as possible." I'll grant that some individuals, and even some companies, care only about making a buck, just as some consumers are thieves, and some employees are lazy and take no pride in their work. Some people and some companies (and, lest we forget, companies are composed of people) do get away with it and do get rich. For long-term success, though, companies generally have to offer products or services that consumers find valuable, and most employees take pride in their work and want to feel that they earn their paychecks. Apple isn't perfect, nor are the people who run it or have run it in the past, but, in general, they've always made great products. That's why they've been so successful.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:32 PM   #109
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Really? Your response is vaporware?
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:33 PM   #110
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I still using the iPhone 4S. If the 5S comes out with the same screen size as the iPhone 5, I will just hold on to my iPhone 4S until something with a bigger screen comes from apple. Or perhaps switch to blackberry or something else. Sigh apple. Have you isolated yourself so much until you have lost touch with reality and what's happening in the android world? Don't be another Nokia please. They were so hot many years back. After a while they stopped innovating and today no one really cares what kind of products they are releasing.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:35 PM   #111
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What do you use it primarily for? As an eReader? Photos? Movies?
Excellent question.

The main reason I bought it was for reading PDFs - I've recently gone back to school and the programme I'm studying is all about journal articles, scanned book chapters, etc. That was my justification for buying it - previously I had a bog standard Kindle (which I adored) and despite its being a wonderful device its ability to display PDFs in a viewable manner was terrible (also owned an iPad gen 1). Of course the mini for more than PDFs today, when not reading I admit I have a terrible addiction to iOS games (currently it's Joe Danger!). I've not forgot a Kindle at all, in fact the one I got rid of it I upgraded to the Paperwhite (which is even better) so I don't normally (there are exceptions) read eBooks on my mini (Kindle matches battery life in days/weeks what my mini lasts in hours).
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:38 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
The Halo Effect is a perceptual bias that has been researched by psychologists for decades. It is nothing new.
Oh even better, I didn't know it went that far back. But anyway the way his quote read to me, it was like Apple came up with the halo effect as the term to be used for buyers enjoying one product and buying another unrelated one from the same brand.

Sort of like when Apple used Resolutionary, I thought it was interesting, and then watching an old episode of The King Of Queens, Doug is wearing a t-shirt from some company "lng" I think that said "Resolutionairy" on it....
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:39 PM   #113
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The rumor was confirmed to be false.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:40 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by seanr1 View Post
even if this were true, i don't know many tinkerers that are non-thinkers.
lol
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 07:43 PM   #115
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If they don't make the best products, the money will not follow.
Are saying that they make the best products so that money will follow, and they want money just so they can use it to make the best products? Just making sure I'm reading right. If that's the case, they should be spending their money improving their products instead of paying it to me in dividends.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nunyabinez View Post
Really? Your response is vaporware?
Not just vaporware. Vaporware that has been called false by the original spreader of the rumor. That invokes another phase change, to plasmaware.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:04 PM   #116
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Are saying that they make the best products so that money will follow, and they want money just so they can use it to make the best products? Just making sure I'm reading right. If that's the case, they should be spending their money improving their products instead of paying it to me in dividends.
Shocking concept, eh? It seems foreign to you and many others though. The more money they have, the farther they are from the position they found themselves in 15 years ago - going out of business and not being able to make products for anyone any longer. If you want to complain about the dividend, talk to your fellow investors and the tech press who have been begging for one for the last few years. Apple does plenty of R&D, but they are very focused, and seem to yield more from theirs than other companies do.

Again, Cook's statement doesn't even require you to agree that they make the best products in the world to believe that he believes it. Just look back through Jobs' statements; he's said similar things many, many times. It's baked into Apple's DNA. A good comparison would be Walt Disney (maybe not the company anymore), or any good artist. They dream of being able to create things and delight people with their creations and money is a requirement in that formula, but not necessarily the primary goal. It's really not that hard to understand.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:04 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Custommm View Post
Problem arise when a company do not listen to market demand no more...
Bigger screen size for iPhone.
a more affordable ,entry-level,laptop for education for exemple.
a iCloud that can be use as Dropbox...
Check the iPad mini!!!! Market ask for a smaller tablet size. you.ve done it and sell millions!
No, they should not waste their time following customer demand. They should innovate, create things that people want, before they know it. If you want a larger screen, buy a Galaxy Note. If you want Dropbox, use Dropbox.

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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:06 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Excellent question.

The main reason I bought it was for reading PDFs - I've recently gone back to school and the programme I'm studying is all about journal articles, scanned book chapters, etc. That was my justification for buying it - previously I had a bog standard Kindle (which I adored) and despite its being a wonderful device its ability to display PDFs in a viewable manner was terrible (also owned an iPad gen 1). Of course the mini for more than PDFs today, when not reading I admit I have a terrible addiction to iOS games (currently it's Joe Danger!). I've not forgot a Kindle at all, in fact the one I got rid of it I upgraded to the Paperwhite (which is even better) so I don't normally (there are exceptions) read eBooks on my mini (Kindle matches battery life in days/weeks what my mini lasts in hours).
Interesting because I too have a Kindle (keyboard) for 2 years, bought the iPad mini, then returned it because i as well didn't like the type for reading nor the battery life. I'm not a gamer so wasn't compelled to keep it plus I have an iPad 3.
However once the mini get Retina I will pounce.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:15 PM   #119
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Interesting because I too have a Kindle (keyboard) for 2 years, bought the iPad mini, then returned it because i as well didn't like the type for reading nor the battery life. I'm not a gamer so wasn't compelled to keep it plus I have an iPad 3.
However once the mini get Retina I will pounce.
Same here. I have 3 other friends who are all waiting for a Retina iPad mini as well. It's the perfect form factor. Just need that Retina screen.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:23 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
+1. The whole point of a company is to make profit
According to Peter Drucker: "The purpose of a business is to create a customer." I think that's what Mr. Cook is talking about.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:40 PM   #121
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Interesting because I too have a Kindle (keyboard) for 2 years, bought the iPad mini, then returned it because i as well didn't like the type for reading nor the battery life. I'm not a gamer so wasn't compelled to keep it plus I have an iPad 3.
However once the mini get Retina I will pounce.
If you're not a gamer and you have a Kindle (which I agree is better than the iPad mini as well as full sized iPad both versions for reading eBooks, though none are horrible), and you already own a retina iPad, I'm curious to know why you'd want a mini. I'm not being difficult, I'm merely just curious to know what the retina mini would be better at providing than the devices you already own (which are all fantastic, btw!).

For me, the form factor was the biggest and main reason to get a mini over a full sized iPad, so I'm just curious to know why people who don't choose it today with current resolution would choose it tomorrow simply because the resolution of the screen had suddenly improved. I admit I'm completely ignorant in this regard.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:56 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by 1Alec1 View Post
"The most important thing to Apple is to make the best products in the world. We aren't interested in revenue for revenue's sake."

The bold part is the part I call unbelievable. The underlined part is the part I agree with.
It's a statement of game plan, not a lie at all.

If they could make the more profit on the same revenue they would. There a number of ways to increase profit.
Their game plan One make good products.
-inspire loyalty in both customer base and employees alike.
-Loyal customers help stabilize revenue and act as a promotional force,
-loyal staff reduce cost and grow the value add.
Together Profits increase.

The polar game plan to that is volume.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 08:57 PM   #123
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The market asked for 7". The iPad mini is not 7".
When did the market ask for a 7" tablet? Fact is the mini outsold every 7" on the market by a long shot.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:16 PM   #124
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It's the halo effect, as we termed it
Apple has now invented the term "halo effect" too?
What can't they do....

Last edited by CShort; Jan 23, 2013 at 10:17 PM.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 09:18 PM   #125
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Apple has now invented the term "halo effect" now too?
What can't they do....
Around here we call it the Marathon Effect
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