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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:50 PM   #251
jvmxtra
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For those still supporting what apple is doing


Wake up. Apple is losing it
Unless apple comes out and hit a home run in iPhone this year they need to fire me cook. Ever since he took over he made serious serious mistakes. Plus there's a growing complaint of apple losing its cool.

I see cook and I see a guy who knows nothing about creativity and direction. Sucks.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:50 PM   #252
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If you're going to ride the stock market, you have to calm down. There are people who commit suicide over these things.
Agree, the rigged casino is not for everyone.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:51 PM   #253
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Apple reported stellar results. World panics.
Not stellar enough to beat estimates. If people just bought the companies that make the most money, everyone but Apple would be valued at $0.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:51 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by mdlooker View Post
So nothing's on the horizon that's causing great excitement which mean stocks will either stay where they are or drop more..am I right?

I need to learn more about this stuff.
Stocks are priced based upon expectations of future returns. One theory is that the price is equal to the discounted present value of the future stream of dividend income.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:52 PM   #255
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Agree, the rigged casino is not for everyone.
Let me guess, it's rigged by those big bad wall street meanies when you are losing money, but you are a market prodigy when it goes in your favour?
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:53 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by tknelson View Post
No argument, but we've been surprised before, and could be again.
Oh I do too. The problem is that the only time Apple's future has been so decided by other companies was with the original iPhone release and Apple got very lucky that AT&T was so willing to play ball (they let Apple ignore their guidelines and essentially created a plan just for the iPhone). I'm just not seeing it. I mean, we still have blackouts in apps like the MLB app just because a team you're watching is within a couple hundred or so miles of you.

This, of course, assumes that the only thing they're working on is a TV.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:54 PM   #257
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actually it is just like the lotto. if you have a secret formula for buying high sell low, you'd be much richer than the next lottery winner

this always reminds me of when people say "APPLE IS NOTHING BUT MARKETING" well if it's so simple how come you're not operating the most valuable company in the world?
Investing is not like the lotto. It's not rigged against you except when inside traders are involved, which is illegal. The lotto is pure luck, and therefore, you can predict how much money you will make buying X number of tickets for a jackpot of $Z. Hint: You always lose money on average.

For the record, I think investing is easier than it seems, and I am allowed to say that because I always profit off of it.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:55 PM   #258
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Oh, it's terrifying, especially for those of us who don't have the funds to pick up and leave. Once the worst of it hits we definitely wont have the funds. People keep voting against their own self-interest, and this is what happens.
Make plans & prepare as best you can. That's all I can say. Many will be hurt.

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:55 PM   #259
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Your loss, my gain

Money doesn't just disappear, it's simply reallocated.
Not true. Money can be lost. Value can be consumed or destroyed and lost forever.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:56 PM   #260
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The retina MacBook Pro team screams into their high resolution screen when anyone says Apple isn't innovating.
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but what is so innovative about putting a higher resolution display on a MacBook Pro? I love my cMBP, MBA, iMac, iPad 2, and various iPods, and I am not an Apple-basher, but I really don't see where Apple is really innovating in the Mac area. Certainly there have been improvements, but not real innovation. (Tim... Let's see this amazing update to the Mac Pro that you promised!) The thing that concerns me most for the Mac is OS X. I really don't see much innovation there at all. I am hoping that with Tim's recent leadership shakeup, we will start seeing some amazing things in the Mac and OS X areas again.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:56 PM   #261
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Your loss, my gain

Money doesn't just disappear, it's simply reallocated.
Like iGrip said, money CAN be lost.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:56 PM   #262
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So nothing's on the horizon that's causing great excitement which mean stocks will either stay where they are or drop more..am I right?

I need to learn more about this stuff.
From my earlier post:

Equity prices are based on expectations, not what you personally think were reasonable numbers. Higher growth was already priced in to the stock, irrespective of the relative P/E of its peers. The expected rate of earnings growth built in to the stock is what is dissipating.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:56 PM   #263
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Let me guess, it's rigged by those big bad wall street meanies when you are losing money, but you are a market prodigy when it goes in your favour?
Your funny
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:57 PM   #264
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Originally Posted by xofruitcake View Post
And I am so glad that you don't run Apple. You can read up about the history of how Apple almost went into BK after John Sculley did just what you layout. When Apple market share become too small, their product is not going to be competitive and customer will jump ship. IOS only has 20% or so ww market share now. And if Apple don't expand their market share, they can got to 10% market share in 2-3 years and developers will start to jump ship follow by customers. Why you described is a 7 years plan to put Apple out of business..
IDC predicts Apple marketshare on iOS growing slightly by 2016 with Android and BB decreasing and WP jumping to 11% marketshare

Marketshare doesn't tell you everything by itself anyway. Android has 60% of the market but a lot of that is in low end Android phones that have replaced feature phones. Because they're low end, the customers that own them can't afford to access in the internet, so Google makes zero from them. For that sector, Google basically gave out their OS as a charity, which is dumb considering the amount of money that went into developing Android. Now you see why Apple might be going after the low end market. Unlike Google, they'd actually be making money off low end iOS phones
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:58 PM   #265
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Make plans & prepare as best you can. That's all I can say. Many will be hurt.

"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself."
-John Adams
I don't like what the US is doing, but this sounds like exaggeration. Or do you live in France? If I lived in France, I'd get the heck out of there... full of commies. I laughed when I heard the comments from the wealthy leaving France. "What's pathetic is your citizenship! I don't want it!" or something like that.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:58 PM   #266
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It's not rigged against you except when inside traders are involved
LOL, this is good
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 10:59 PM   #267
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I look at the iPad Mini as Apple's attempt to create a midrange market sector, not compete with budget market tablets. I think they were trying to expand the market just like they did when they put out the cheaper but still midrange priced iPod Mini. It cannibalized the original iPod a little, but people bought both and it grew the market. Later, they put out the Shuffle and actually went after the budget market.
I don't entirely think the two situations are as comparable as some people tend to believe. The iPod had a luxury, the iTunes store, that competitors simply couldn't rival, and in terms of sheer music selection, many companies (Google & Amazon, mostly) still can't compete. For many people, the only logical choice was the iPod, and a smaller and cheaper iPod made all the sense in the world because of the fitness market that no company was catering to. There

With the iPad Mini, Apple wants it both ways: it wants the budget consumer while maintaining a premium presence. It's a difficult balancing act, no doubt, and while I ultimately think the product itself will be a success, it may come at the price of the higher margin product in the long run.

I think the iPad Mini was meant to eat into the group of consumers that give the Kindle HD-style products serious looks, but too many regular iPad buyers will look one level below at the Mini. The Mini may actually become the standard in the product line; the Mini will be the Macbook, while the regular iPad will be the iMac, for sales comparisons sake.

But I don't own a Deloreon, so we'll see.

Quote:
I think it's a mistake because you generally don't want to commoditize your own hardware. At the same time there's a budget market out there that's currently being dominated by Android. Google doesn't make any money off that market because it's full of users who don't have internet access so they probably don't care if they lose it. Apple might be able to kick out Google from the low end sector without damaging its brand too much. But who knows
While Google and Apple are duking it out on software, they're too different to compare, and their revenue streams come from vastly different sources. Google doesn't care if the user is poor or in the top 1%, as long as they have a Gmail account.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:00 PM   #268
1Alec1
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LOL, this is good
Very good, and I'm glad the system is like this.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:01 PM   #269
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I don't like what the US is doing, but this sounds like exaggeration. Or do you live in France? If I lived in France, I'd get the heck out of there... full of commies.
Exaggeration? Look at the Fed's balance sheet Another one in a stupor.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:02 PM   #270
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Exaggeration? Look at the Feds balance sheet Another one in a stupor.
The Feds have a stable income (taxes). They just have to cut a few things and/or raise taxes, and the debt will be destined to vanish. I'm frankly very disappointed in Obama's performance right now, and I supported him over the opponents in 2008 and 2012. I don't like Democrats, but WTF are the candidates the Republicans are running? Better to have a money-waster than a money-burning war monger.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:03 PM   #271
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Very good, and I'm glad the system is like this.
God Bless the SEC
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:04 PM   #272
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From my earlier post:

Equity prices are based on expectations, not what you personally think were reasonable numbers. Higher growth was already priced in to the stock, irrespective of the relative P/E of its peers. The expected rate of earnings growth built in to the stock is what is dissipating.
Just as I thought. So though there is a decrease, it's still a profit off of cash value because what Apple has is sustaining expectations. The innovative part, however, isn't living up to the expectation, hence the deflation. It may continue to deflate until which time there is a reason for it to raise.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:04 PM   #273
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God Bless the SEC
Assuming you're being sarcastic, at this point, you sound like Alex Jones or something.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:04 PM   #274
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The Feds have a stable income (taxes). They just have to cut a few things and/or raise taxes, and the debt will be destined to vanish. I'm frankly very disappointed in Obama's performance right now, and I supported him over the opponents in 2008 and 2012. I don't like Democrats, but WTF are the candidates the Republicans are running?
The Federal Reserve
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 11:05 PM   #275
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Dirty Stuff Brewing

Amazon LOST money last quarter they reported, their margins are razor-thin, and their P/E ratios are astronomical. You'll have to keep your money in Amazon for about 30 years to make money.

Is this a metaphor for early 21st century capitalism? Apple is making huge amounts of cash, they give good value to their customers, and everything's going fine. So the barons of Wall Street take billions out of their stock value and contribute NOTHING. Why is Apple ON the stock market, by the way?
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