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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:57 AM   #26
saturn88
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Isn't share buy back basically saying they don't know what to do with their cash?
That's right: they don't know what to do. Apple has no leadership.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:59 AM   #27
HenryDJP
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Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
A good company is one that makes good products, makes money, doesn't lay off employees, and has happy employees.

The stock market doesn't think so. They think a good company is one who projects astronomical growth for the future irregardless of whether they have a sound business plan that makes sense, and irregardless of how much money they are making TODAY. It's all smoke, mirrors and HOPE.

Good, solid companies are shunned, because why put your money into something steady and make 5% on your money year over year? Let's bet the farm and make 100-200% every 3 months! Get rich quick!

That's the sad state of the stock market now.
Thanks for the earlier replies from Chupa Chupa and to the other posters as well. Yeah, this makes sense. Investors have a convoluted way of thinking. Seems like they want a fresh pot of coffee every 5 minutes.

Sorry, not to be the grammar police but I think you meant "Regardless", not "irregardless".
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:12 AM   #28
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But who knows, perhaps AAPL is at its year low and it still has to test the year's highs.

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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:13 AM   #29
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If Apple ever wants a trillion dollar market cap they're gonna have to fork our 1% of the company to me, create a biotech division, and let me loose.

That's where the money's in the long-term.

Services and media for now...
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:27 AM   #30
KPOM
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Originally Posted by iAco View Post
They had a winning quarter-over-quarter for a while now. How come the congratulations comes now? Oh snap! It's because Apple's stock is heading south and it will be the last stunning quarter from Apple for a while.

What a way to juice your employees.

Too bad in the end Google will dominate the world with marketshare and data and services that are just a little more useful then hardware build by folks with OCD. But don't get me wrong, I love the shiny toys!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
BTW "Tim Cook" is the modern day name for "Nero."
That sounds a bit extreme. Apple's went through down periods when Steve Jobs was CEO. The timing is right for a town hall. They just wrapped up their busiest selling period of the year, and if history is a guide, they won't have any significant new product announcements until next quarter.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Isn't share buy back basically saying they don't know what to do with their cash?
They have more cash and short term investments on hand than Google and Microsoft combined. If they don't have a big acquisition planned, then distributing some of it to its owners makes sense. Shareholders often prefer buybacks to dividends because taxes are lower on capital gains than dividends.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:27 AM   #31
saturn88
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
That sounds a bit extreme. Apple's went through down periods when Steve Jobs was CEO. The timing is right for a town hall. They just wrapped up their busiest selling period of the year, and if history is a guide, they won't have any significant new product announcements until next quarter.
If history is a guide, they won't have any significant new product announcements until next YEAR. I mean, all we suppose to get this year is the iPhone 5s refresh and may be iPad refresh. That is not significant to me and apparently to the stock market.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:33 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn88 View Post
That's right: they don't know what to do. Apple has no leadership.
Your interpretation is wrong. Mine is correct: Apple is so bloody good at making money, they make more than they can spend.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Isn't share buy back basically saying they don't know what to do with their cash?
No. It means they are so good at making money, they can afford to give some back to the shareholders. And excuse me, but they know exactly what to do with their cash: Give it back to the shareholders. Do you think spending a few billion dollars on crappy companies, like Microsoft, HP and Google did, is better than giving the money back to the shareholders?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:34 AM   #33
Rogifan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saturn88 View Post
If history is a guide, they won't have any significant new product announcements until next YEAR. I mean, all we suppose to get this year is the iPhone 5s refresh and may be iPad refresh. That is not significant to me and apparently to the stock market.
I have a hard time believing we're going to go the whole year and get nothing more than a refresh of iPhone 5 internals.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:36 AM   #34
KPOM
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Originally Posted by saturn88 View Post
If history is a guide, they won't have any significant new product announcements until next YEAR. I mean, all we suppose to get this year is the iPhone 5s refresh. That is not significant to me and apparently to the stock market.
We'll likely see a more substantial update to the iPad this year, and perhaps the iPad mini. If the rumors are true and there is a "cheaper" iPhone in the works (e.g. a device with an iPhone 5 screen but iPhone 3GS-like plastic body) that would be a HUGE deal even if the technology update isn't as significant.

Apple's issue right now is that its biggest current markets are saturated. iPhone struggles in Europe because phones aren't subsidized, and they have yet to strike a deal with China Mobile. If they release a less expensive phone, we may see margins go down, as with the iPad mini, but volumes go up.

What was telling was that the iPhone 4 was supply constrained. Apparently it was also popular on Verizon. If Apple can offer a "free" (really $450) phone that isn't 2 year old technology, that could be very appealing to a lot of people. Remember, T-Mobile is going to start selling the iPhone soon, and they are also getting rid of subsidies across the board. Subsidies are less common in Europe, and virtually nonexistent in the rest of the world. The $450 iPhone 4 isn't competitive in unsubsidized markets.

Samsung has gained ground at the high end, and so Apple's response may be to attack at the mid range.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:37 AM   #35
arbitter
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Can't the guy just thanks his employees wihout people scrutinizing it, stating it's only due to the bad press?

Sjeez.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:44 AM   #36
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I wish they could use that innovation and fix home sharing and the other problems with OS 6
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:46 AM   #37
gnasher729
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
Samsung has gained ground at the high end, and so Apple's response may be to attack at the mid range.
Maybe Samsung should be more worried about people dying from cancer at its factories. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/01...nsation_talks/
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:47 AM   #38
AZREOSpecialist
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Originally Posted by iAco View Post
They had a winning quarter-over-quarter for a while now. How come the congratulations comes now? Oh snap! It's because Apple's stock is heading south and it will be the last stunning quarter from Apple for a while.

What a way to juice your employees.

Too bad in the end Google will dominate the world with marketshare and data and services that are just a little more useful then hardware build by folks with OCD. But don't get me wrong, I love the shiny toys!
What a cynical and pessimistic view. And why would you try to articulate that Google's dominance would be a good thing? You seem to want to give away the keys to your house.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:48 AM   #39
Ryth
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Originally Posted by Chupa Chupa View Post
Simple... Apple didn't meet sales targets, esp on iPhone 5. Profit margin was down. Investors don't see anything to fuel additional growth. Shorter: Apple needs a new "big thing" product for the stock to break out on the upside again. Cook needs to deliver.
So because Apple doesn't meet a bunch of analysts who can't tell their you know what from their head, that's Apple's fault? Same analysts that haven't addressed Q4 was 1 week shorter?

The iPhone 5 was constrained by supply. Any other company would wet their pants to have 2 products that they cannot keep stocked on the shelves and Wall Street would reward those companies. iMac was down because of display yields...not because of demand.

A few things you obviously missed...
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.

..there...now after that has sunk in to those that just don't get how substantial and mind blowing that is...
Apple still...

-Sells more iPhones in 1 quarter than did Samsung of their whole S series in 1 year.
-Cannot meet enough demand for 2 of it's products due to popularity.
-Adds 16 billion to the cash.
-Moving into China where growth is enormous.
-PC sales are down showing that tablets are all the majority need. Growth into PC % is huge.
-Quarter was 1 week shorter then last year.

There is plenty of growth potential. The issue is that Wall Street treats Apple differently.

But hey...Wall Street uses rational/logical analysis right? I mean...Google jumps $50 after losing 6% in ad revenues and $1.5B in sales revenues from a hardware business they should have never bought in the first place.

When Apple moves into Google/Androids sandbox in China and starts taking market share from them, the analysts will reward Google with something to the tune of "Well heck, that only means Google now has growth potential...buy buy buy" where if it was Apple and they lost any % points, they would go "Look at how much share Apple is losing..sell sell sell"
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:52 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Do you think spending a few billion dollars on crappy companies, like Microsoft, HP and Google did, is better than giving the money back to the shareholders?
Well, Apple spending on crappy companies has brought Siri and Apple Maps
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:53 AM   #41
Asclepio
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Originally Posted by Popeye206 View Post
What???? OMG... it's simple... record quarter, but profits we're basically flat... investors wanted to see continued amazing year over year growth in profits too and that was not there. So, the stock plummeted. There's nothing "tricky" about how they report their sales.
record ,record, how many times i heard about it and i'm referring specifically at apple, these corporations can get tricky numbers easily, where they pay their taxes?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:53 AM   #42
saturn88
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
Your interpretation is wrong. Mine is correct: Apple is so bloody good at making money, they make more than they can spend.
Who cares for your "interpretation", when AAPL stock is in toilet: investors do not think anymore that "Apple is so bloody good at making money".
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:02 PM   #43
AZREOSpecialist
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Apple needed a "next big thing" rollout on par with iPhone (2007) and iPad (2010) last year (2012). That didn't happen. Instead, it was just refinements of old "next big things". There better be something genuinely new (not a thinner, lighter, or different color, old NBT) this year or I suspect AAPL stock will feel even more pain. In short (and IMO), the old NBTs are not strong enough to maintain the growth slope on their own. They need a new NBT (that is not a Mac or new iDevice) to become a major source of new revenues & profits. It needed to hit in 2012 but didn't (and thus AAPL from $700 to about $460 in just the last few months).
Nobody knew that the iPhone and iPad were going to be such big hits, so what was "the next big thing" back then was not seen as such. The first iPad was hailed as "just a big iPhone" and nobody thought it would be a growth driver for Apple at the time. I'm just saying, nobody on this side of things knows what is going to be popular.

IMHO Apple would have a great 2013 if they would just give us a bigger screen to compete with the larger Android phones and a revamped iOS that gives us more and better features than Android. That shouldn't be too difficult for a company that is sitting on a $150B cash stockpile. Yet the perception is that Apple is sitting on its laurels - which I don't believe for one single second.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Well, Apple spending on crappy companies has brought Siri and Apple Maps
Apple Maps was not the result of a corporate acquisition, what are you talking about?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:04 PM   #44
Chupa Chupa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
A few things you obviously missed...
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
Don't be such a homer. The stock is down for a reason. You can paper over the cracks, but facts are facts, and fact is Apple missed its estimates, which the stock price is based on. Also look at the internals, not the headlines.

Apple's growth is slowing down because the iPhone is mature. The iPad is getting there. And the rumors of a new "big thing" Apple product are thin.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:08 PM   #45
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Setting yet another record isn't good enough for Wall Street......But wait. Apple is a solid company. The shares are solid. So Wall Street did what it always does. It hammered the share price, scared off smaller investors and will be back within 48 hours to snap up those shares at a discount and ride them up again. This has happened to GE, HP, Microsoft and countless other companies that became cash cows for Wall St to plunder. The only reason they are talking negatively is because they know everything about Apple is positive.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:09 PM   #46
Bubba Satori
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Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
So because Apple doesn't meet a bunch of analysts who can't tell their you know what from their head, that's Apple's fault? Same analysts that haven't addressed Q4 was 1 week shorter?

The iPhone 5 was constrained by supply. Any other company would wet their pants to have 2 products that they cannot keep stocked on the shelves and Wall Street would reward those companies. iMac was down because of display yields...not because of demand.

A few things you obviously missed...
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.
-Biggest company in the world still grew 18%. Re-read this and absorb it.

..there...now after that has sunk in to those that just don't get how substantial and mind blowing that is...
Apple still...

-Sells more iPhones in 1 quarter than did Samsung of their whole S series in 1 year.
-Cannot meet enough demand for 2 of it's products due to popularity.
-Adds 16 billion to the cash.
-Moving into China where growth is enormous.
-PC sales are down showing that tablets are all the majority need. Growth into PC % is huge.
-Quarter was 1 week shorter then last year.

There is plenty of growth potential. The issue is that Wall Street treats Apple differently.

But hey...Wall Street uses rational/logical analysis right? I mean...Google jumps $50 after losing 6% in ad revenues and $1.5B in sales revenues from a hardware business they should have never bought in the first place.

When Apple moves into Google/Androids sandbox in China and starts taking market share from them, the analysts will reward Google with something to the tune of "Well heck, that only means Google now has growth potential...buy buy buy" where if it was Apple and they lost any % points, they would go "Look at how much share Apple is losing..sell sell sell"
Impressive.

Are you familiar with the phrase, spitting into the wind?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:17 PM   #47
Oletros
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Apple Maps was not the result of a corporate acquisition, what are you talking about?
Buying C3 gave Flyover and Placebase helps to the maps visualization
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:19 PM   #48
krravi
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Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
A good company is one that makes good products, makes money, doesn't lay off employees, and has happy employees.

The stock market doesn't think so. They think a good company is one who projects astronomical growth for the future irregardless of whether they have a sound business plan that makes sense, and irregardless of how much money they are making TODAY. It's all smoke, mirrors and HOPE.

Good, solid companies are shunned, because why put your money into something steady and make 5% on your money year over year? Let's bet the farm and make 100-200% every 3 months! Get rich quick!

That's the sad state of the stock market now.
You sir, nailed it.

Wall Street always makes darlings of companies and then turns them into dust. Remember Worldcom, Enron heck even Microsoft. Only reason Microsoft hasn't vanished is because of their product portfolio and probably Wall Street was using MS Windows to write their reports of how Microsoft is doomed.

I want Wall St to back off and let Apple do it's thing and not shiver in its boots to these unrealistic expectations every quarter.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:20 PM   #49
hackjo
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Do you lot want Apple to fail?

What do you propose they do next?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:22 PM   #50
Tiger8
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I really wish Apple never signed the 4-5yr exclusive with AT&T way back in '07... it only gave way to this now. This is 5 years in the making now...
I hate AT&T with passion, but that deal is the reason why you are holding an iPhone today. Pure and simple. AT&T was the ONLY carrier willing to bet on a product that was highly experiment and was 'doomed'. AT&T worked with Apple to make it fathomable cost-wise.
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