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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:22 AM   #51
Herculeinstein
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Originally Posted by bbeagle View Post
A good company is one that makes good products, makes money, doesn't lay off employees, and has happy employees.

The stock market doesn't think so. They think a good company is one who projects astronomical growth for the future irregardless of whether they have a sound business plan that makes sense, and irregardless of how much money they are making TODAY. It's all smoke, mirrors and HOPE.

Good, solid companies are shunned, because why put your money into something steady and make 5% on your money year over year? Let's bet the farm and make 100-200% every 3 months! Get rich quick!

That's the sad state of the stock market now.
Instead of crying and complaining about Apples stock price dropping you should be moving your money elsewhere if you were smart, but instead you're blinded by your love of Apple when there are so many more great opportunities out there to invest your money. Forget about Apple they have nowhere to go but down. Again INVEST YOUR MONEY SOMEWHERE ELSE there are some great opportunities out there if you can get over your Apple love. If not then you deserve to lose. Atleast pull your money out then get back in when it hits rock bottom like the evil stock manipulters you hate so much are doing. You guys holding on to your stock forever and complaining when it goes down don't know how to play the game and you WILL LOSE trust me.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:25 AM   #52
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Obviously Apple still has a great business, but just as obviously, when investors get nervous that there's nowhere to go but down, they will bail.

As for future directions for Apple - I wonder about the feasibility of Apple splitting the iPhone into two separate categories like their Macbooks - the Air vs Pro. So hypothetically, the next release of the iPhone would consist of two models: One is a hyperslim, barely-there sleek model with perhaps a less expensive processor, and a smaller screen (4" screen of the iPhone 5?), priced at $400 factory unlocked; and one is a larger one with top-shelf build quality (carbon fiber?), the fastest ARM processor, larger screen (5"?), camera with f/2.0, NFC, wireless charging, etc, etc, priced at $700.

Another thing: Airdrop for Mac - is there any technical reason this couldn't be implemented in the iPhones? Is there a way to do it without the need for a WiFi network? For me, this would be a killer app/feature.

Last edited by flux73; Jan 24, 2013 at 11:32 AM.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:25 AM   #53
Mike MA
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Releasing 6.1 and 10.8.3 today?
Also my thougth - at least 10.8.3 should be ready after all these builds
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:35 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by hackjo View Post
Do you lot want Apple to fail?

What do you propose they do next?
They need to fix this the fact that 56% of their revenue depends on the iPhone for one.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:38 AM   #55
tknelson
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Originally Posted by HobeSoundDarryl View Post
Apple needed a "next big thing" rollout on par with iPhone (2007) and iPad (2010) last year (2012).
Let's see... 2010-2007 = 3 years.
2012 - 2010 = 2 years.

Needed? Methinks you are being a little unrealistic.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:41 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
That sounds a bit extreme. Apple's went through down periods when Steve Jobs was CEO. The timing is right for a town hall. They just wrapped up their busiest selling period of the year, and if history is a guide, they won't have any significant new product announcements until next quarter.

----------



They have more cash and short term investments on hand than Google and Microsoft combined. If they don't have a big acquisition planned, then distributing some of it to its owners makes sense. Shareholders often prefer buybacks to dividends because taxes are lower on capital gains than dividends.
You sound like a duck quacking.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:46 AM   #57
Herculeinstein
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What does Apple plan on doing with all that money they have? I don't think they know what to do with it. They're too cheap to give it to their investors or buy anything meaningful with it. Other than their lawyers they don't want to pay anyone for anything.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:47 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Herculeinstein View Post
Instead of crying and complaining about Apples stock price dropping you should be moving your money elsewhere if you were smart, but instead you're blinded by your love of Apple when there are so many more great opportunities out there to invest your money.
I'm not crying about Apple. I'm simply explaining that Wall Street has it all backwards. You have to buy companies like FB, NFLX, AMZN that don't make money, but go up wildly. And get out before the rug gets pulled out from underneath, which has happened to all of them before.

I bought Apple at $80, and sold at $450 (1 1/2 years ago $450 before it went to $700). Apple has been very good to me. There will be a time to jump in again, but not yet.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:47 AM   #59
iAco
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Originally Posted by AZREOSpecialist View Post
What a cynical and pessimistic view. And why would you try to articulate that Google's dominance would be a good thing? You seem to want to give away the keys to your house.
You're backwards.

Google's a collective trust. It exists because a lot of us trust to use it because we're so dependent on it. It is a good thing and I don't mind living in Google's world because it provides you so much good for free whereas Apple gives you a prettier version of the same thing for a fat premium. Google is a global good as Wikipedia is. Also Apple is very economically selective whereas Google's services (say Android) are free and available to anyone on the planet. Which will obviously lead to more marketshare and data.

Here's a message from the future: data will be king. Google will live forever. It's serving a better good. Apple is just the coolest interface medium. Both are the best at what they do.

What I said about Cook 100% true. That is normal business behavior.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:50 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
They need to fix this the fact that 56% of their revenue depends on the iPhone for one.
I agree that they need to come up with more revenue streams - I'm partial to media content - however, I don't see a problem with the iPhone being a large chunk of their revenue unless they stop creating any new models, or unless you believe the iPhone will become so inferior compared to other models that people will simply stop buying it.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:51 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by tdream View Post
The emperor has no clothes.... shhh.....
So you really think that Apple isn't doing anything new an innovative in their R&D dept. with all those billions of dollars at their disposal.

They still have all of the Top Talent that produces the iProducts that are selling by the 10's of millions every Quarter.

The industry has been copying Apple Since 1976. It will continue to do so for the next decade at least. It's just kind of iObvious.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:51 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Well, Apple spending on crappy companies has brought Siri and Apple Maps
"Crappy" is just an unproven and unjustified opinion of yours.

So how many billions did Apple spend on these companies?
Has Apple done multi billion dollar write-offs like other companies (Microsoft and HP) have?
HP bought Palm, what has that brought to HP? (It surely brought $99 tablets to many people) Apart from a huge bill?

BTW, where I live Apple Maps has been continuously improving since it was released, so no matter how much it was criticised, you better check it again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
They need to fix this the fact that 56% of their revenue depends on the iPhone for one.
But that's not because everything else sells badly, that's because they sell so many iPhones. If Apple could double the amount of iPhones sold, so that 72% of the revenue would be iPhones, should Apple not do that?

Last edited by gnasher729; Jan 24, 2013 at 11:59 AM.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:52 AM   #63
Newton70
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Isn't share buy back basically saying they don't know what to do with their cash?
Not necessarily, it elevates shareholder value by reducing the numbers of outstanding shares (which also increases earnings per share due to the reduced float).
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:53 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
Another thing: Airdrop for Mac - is there any technical reason this couldn't be implemented in the iPhones? Is there a way to do it without the need for a WiFi network? For me, this would be a killer app/feature.
Wifi direct does that
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 11:54 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Oletros View Post
Well, Apple spending on crappy companies has brought Siri and Apple Maps
Siri was a reason to buy the iPhone 4S even if just for the novelty of it.
Apple Maps forced Google to provide a better maps app for iOS which Apple surely needed.

It's a chess game.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:02 PM   #66
KnightWRX
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Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
I agree that they need to come up with more revenue streams - I'm partial to media content
Media content is a small margin market. Apple is already in it, look at what its netting them, 3-4% of their revenue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by flux73 View Post
however, I don't see a problem with the iPhone being a large chunk of their revenue unless they stop creating any new models, or unless you believe the iPhone will become so inferior compared to other models that people will simply stop buying it.
There's the 3rd scenario you're forgetting : the smartphone market will reach saturation at one point as it reaches maturity. Then where does the growth come from ? Remember, the reason the stock is down today is because Apple showed a stalled profit growth.

With 56% of their revenues depending on the smartphone sector and penetration already being 55% of the big markets for the segment, it means potential growth going forward might not be there. That's one of the big reasons you see Apple trying to expand into markets where smartphone penetration is still very low (India, China, Brazil) :

Thumb resize.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
But that's not because everything else sells badly, that's because they sell so many iPhones. If Apple could double the amount of iPhones sold, so that 72% of the revenue would be iPhones, should Apple not do that?
The problem is we're discussing growth. You need to understand that the iPhone can't keep growing at the same pace as it did in the past with current market realities such as segment saturation, market penetration and current markets Apple operates in.

Then there's the fact that emerging markets might not show the same explosive growth that more established markets did when switching from feature phones to smartphones.

So really, going forward, iPhones being such a big part of the pie can end up hurting Apple on the growth front, which is the very reason they were hurt yesterday, the numbers were great, but signaled some stalling as far as potential growth goes.

Apple grew too much, too quickly and now the signs that the growth can't be sustained are showing (and frankly anyone who thought Apple could sustain such growth was living in a dream world).

Anyway, what's with the defensiveness gnasher ? What are you gaining here by twisting the facts around to make it seem Apple doesn't need to fix things ?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:02 PM   #67
gnasher729
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Originally Posted by saturn88 View Post
Who cares for your "interpretation", when AAPL stock is in toilet: investors do not think anymore that "Apple is so bloody good at making money".
If investors are stupid, how is that Apple's problem? You need to realise that what Apple is in no way affected by the share price. The only time that companies are affected by their share price is when they want to use their shares to borrow money. With 130 thousand million dollars in cash, Apple isn't going to do that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
So really, going forward, iPhones being such a big part of the pie can end up hurting Apple on the growth front, which is the very reason they were hurt yesterday, the numbers were great, but signaled some stalling as far as potential growth goes.

Apple grew too much, too quickly and now the signs that the growth can't be sustained are showing (and frankly anyone who thought Apple could sustain such growth was living in a dream world).
From an investors point of view, you want a company that is improving. If you buy shares for one dollar in a company that is totally crappy, and next year they are slightly less crappy and the shares go up to two dollars, you've doubled your money. Excellent. If Apple brings in $13 billion every quarter, year after year, that's not improving. Not good for investors.

But from the company's point of view, what counts is how well they are doing. The profit is what counts. By growing "too fast" as you say Apple has more money than if they had grown slower. Sure, someone who bought yesterday would be happier if AAPL went from $200 to $250, and not from $500 to $450.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
Anyway, what's with the defensiveness gnasher ? What are you gaining here by twisting the facts around to make it seem Apple doesn't need to fix things ?
Aah, the old "your so defensive" argument is coming out. "You're defensive" means "I'd rather nobody noticed when I talk nonsense".

Last edited by gnasher729; Jan 24, 2013 at 12:12 PM.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:02 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by KPOM View Post
We'll likely see a more substantial update to the iPad this year, and perhaps the iPad mini. If the rumors are true and there is a "cheaper" iPhone in the works (e.g. a device with an iPhone 5 screen but iPhone 3GS-like plastic body) that would be a HUGE deal even if the technology update isn't as significant.

Apple's issue right now is that its biggest current markets are saturated. iPhone struggles in Europe because phones aren't subsidized, and they have yet to strike a deal with China Mobile. If they release a less expensive phone, we may see margins go down, as with the iPad mini, but volumes go up.

What was telling was that the iPhone 4 was supply constrained. Apparently it was also popular on Verizon. If Apple can offer a "free" (really $450) phone that isn't 2 year old technology, that could be very appealing to a lot of people. Remember, T-Mobile is going to start selling the iPhone soon, and they are also getting rid of subsidies across the board. Subsidies are less common in Europe, and virtually nonexistent in the rest of the world. The $450 iPhone 4 isn't competitive in unsubsidized markets.

Samsung has gained ground at the high end, and so Apple's response may be to attack at the mid range.
I am not sure if a cheap iphone is a good move. It dilutes the brand, complicates marketing and reduces profit margins. Also, Apple already has cheap iphone 4.

I think it would be more substantial if Apple offers more iphone sizes, moves into the phablet space and creates new iOS products for cars, appliances, audio and TVs. Another area: new cloud and entertainment services to expand ecosystem. Apple has plenty of cash to do all of that.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:09 PM   #69
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Apple is the only company that can have record breaking earnings and drop $50 in share price.

To the hater analysts I say *rolleyes.*
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:21 PM   #70
Mike MA
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Originally Posted by KnightWRX View Post
They need to fix this the fact that 56% of their revenue depends on the iPhone for one.
Just for the record - before iOS 100% of their revenue was created by Macs!
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:30 PM   #71
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Tim Cook: "Everyone I have a surprise. Look under your seats... It's a FERRARI!"
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:34 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by linux2mac View Post

To the hater analysts I say *rolleyes.*
Wall Street must be Windoze fans.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:36 PM   #73
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Apple is the only company that can have record breaking earnings and drop $50 in share price.

To the hater analysts I say *rolleyes.*
Don't worry. Apple stock price will bounce up tomorrow. It's oversold today.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:37 PM   #74
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Here's the sad truth about Apple:

"Apple Shares Down 11 Percent on Fourth-Most-Profitable Quarter Posted by Any Company Ever"

...the 4th most profitable quarter posted by any company, in the history of time... and it's still not impressive enough.

No matter what Apple does, or the new products it may offer in the future, analysts will always come up with a down side or a reason the product is no good. They just expect too much from Apple, they expect things that make no sense. Even when Apple proves them wrong and sells 100 million of whatever new product they announce -- it's still not good enough. They did this exact same thing when the iPad was announced. Stock went down, people said it wasn't impressive, nobody would buy it -- look at it now, look at the tablet market now... all of that was 100% because of Apple no matter how you try to look at it.

The stock is tough to own because the reasons why it goes up and down are honestly total BS.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 12:39 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by johncrab View Post
Setting yet another record isn't good enough for Wall Street......But wait. Apple is a solid company. The shares are solid. So Wall Street did what it always does. It hammered the share price, scared off smaller investors and will be back within 48 hours to snap up those shares at a discount and ride them up again. This has happened to GE, HP, Microsoft and countless other companies that became cash cows for Wall St to plunder. The only reason they are talking negatively is because they know everything about Apple is positive.
Yep....

I wish Apple would take some of that cash and buy up a ton of the stock back.

Fundamentals are more sound then any company out there.

The true 'bubble' is GOOG and MSFT...both don't have rosy futures.
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