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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:18 AM   #51
Rogifan
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
I wish they would say 84% IN NORTH AMERICA as its not 84% in the rest of the world, World wide apple has about 25% of the smartphone market and its a falling market share, they like to quote US numbers, not worldwide ones to make them look like they are doing amazingly well, they might as well say 100% market share and omit "sold via apple stores".

http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/02/idc...de-in-q3-2012/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-575...-market-share/

the loss of market share outside the US is an accelerating factor that apple is keen to gloss over by quoting US market share all the time but not directly stating its US market share..
I think everyone knows AT&T and Verizon = US. What exactly is Apple (not rumor sites) saying that's misleading? Every company is going highlight the good and downplay the not so good.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:38 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
I wish they would say 84% IN NORTH AMERICA as its not 84% in the rest of the world, World wide apple has about 25% of the smartphone market and its a falling market share, they like to quote US numbers, not worldwide ones to make them look like they are doing amazingly well, they might as well say 100% market share and omit "sold via apple stores".
Apple's world wide market share in the phone market is growing. It has been growing continuously since 2007, and there is no stopping in sight.

In the smartphone market, what happened is that a huge number of cheap phones are now counted as "smart phones". In 2007, people bought phones three times more expensive than today's cheapest "smartphone", and they didn't count as smartphones. Whether a cheap phone is a smartphone or not doesn't affect Apple's success at all; but it does affect its marketshare in the artificial "smartphone" market.

In a short time, the movement from dumb to smart phones will be completed, and you will see Apple's smartphone market share going up again.

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how do they have 74% of the activations when marketshare is more like 50-50 compared to android?
That's because the 74% is a number that some bloke calculated, based on incorrect interpretation of numbers.

The factual numbers that we have from AT&T are 10.2 million smartphones sold, and 8.6 million iPhones activated. We don't know how many iPhones were sold, and we don't know how many other smartphones were activated.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:50 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by gnasher729 View Post
In the smartphone market, what happened is that a huge number of cheap phones are now counted as "smart phones". In 2007, people bought phones three times more expensive than today's cheapest "smartphone", and they didn't count as smartphones. Whether a cheap phone is a smartphone or not doesn't affect Apple's success at all; but it does affect its marketshare in the artificial "smartphone" market.
What has to do the price of the device to be counted as smartphone or not?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:02 AM   #54
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These are great numbers for Apple. But you must look at the figures in context. It's not like in a second 84% of the worlds (or even the US) smartphone users are using iPhones now, like some seem to think.

- The % was calculated by dividing activations (including hand-me-downs) with new sales (like apples with oranges) and is very unsure.

- This is only activations/sales for one isolated quarter, not how the % of total smartphones used look like. And this is the quarter where the iPhone 5 really got available, which mean a peak in newly activated iPhone 5's and also in activated iPhone 4's and 4S's (that were handed down from new 5 owners).

So it's great news for Apple, but don't read too much in it...
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 06:54 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
I wish they would say 84% IN NORTH AMERICA as its not 84% in the rest of the world, World wide apple has about 25% of the smartphone market and its a falling market share, they like to quote US numbers, not worldwide ones to make them look like they are doing amazingly well, they might as well say 100% market share and omit "sold via apple stores".

http://techcrunch.com/2012/11/02/idc...de-in-q3-2012/

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-575...-market-share/

the loss of market share outside the US is an accelerating factor that apple is keen to gloss over by quoting US market share all the time but not directly stating its US market share..
Well, the US is Apple's most important single country market, and I'm guessing it's Google's as well given the rollout pattern of their services. I'd heard it said many times on the inter-forumz that when given a choice between Android and iOS, more people would always choose Android because it's so much "better" and has more "choice". Well we see that isn't true, even on carriers where they supposedly push Android harder (Verizon even has their own personal DROID brand).

The question I'd ask is how "involved" are smartphone users in other countries with using apps, supporting developers, taking advantage of services compared to customers in the US.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:21 AM   #56
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:42 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by blackcrayon View Post
Well, the US is Apple's most important single country market, and I'm guessing it's Google's as well given the rollout pattern of their services. I'd heard it said many times on the inter-forumz that when given a choice between Android and iOS, more people would always choose Android because it's so much "better" and has more "choice". Well we see that isn't true, even on carriers where they supposedly push Android harder (Verizon even has their own personal DROID brand).

The question I'd ask is how "involved" are smartphone users in other countries with using apps, supporting developers, taking advantage of services compared to customers in the US.
Certainly true that google has been able to get more of its services out on the android devices outside the US compared to apple, iTunes outside the USA is a crippled mess in some countries
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 07:44 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by blackcrayon View Post
I'd heard it said many times on the inter-forumz that when given a choice between Android and iOS, more people would always choose Android because it's so much "better" and has more "choice". Well we see that isn't true, even on carriers where they supposedly push Android harder (Verizon even has their own personal DROID brand).
It seems that it's not the case in the US at least since Apple still have a small lead in market share. But last numbers I saw Android still had a massive lead in market share in the rest of the world.


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Originally Posted by blackcrayon View Post
The question I'd ask is how "involved" are smartphone users in other countries with using apps, supporting developers, taking advantage of services compared to customers in the US.
I think that smartphone users here in Sweden at least use their smartphones to a large extent and use many apps, mostly games, music, social media, web and e-mail I think.

When it comes to taking advatage of services I don't really know what you mean. Can you give some examples of services you had in mind?

If Applecare+ is one of them, it's not offered here. At least not with higly subsidized replacements during the contract. We at the moment also only have 2 Apple stores in the whole of Sweden, so the Apple stores services are pretty much non existent.

Another service you might have in mind is iTunes Match, but we don't have access to that here. Or 4G/LTE for that sake, even though we have had 4G/LTE networks since 2009. Apple don't support our frequencies.

Another reason (besides the lack of some services) I think Android phones have a much higher market share than iPhone outside the US is that it's so much more expensive than most Android phones here. Compared to the Android flagships, it's around $250 more (650 vs 900).
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 08:33 AM   #59
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how do they have 74% of the activations when marketshare is more like 50-50 compared to android?
This is only for AT&T. There are 3 other major carriers in the US and one of them doesn't even sell the iPhone. Then there's a plethora of budget carriers like Boost and Cricket that sell tons of cheap Android devices.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:43 AM   #60
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I like that chart. I wonder how much of that is device/OS preference and how much is simply carrier compatibility. iOS is available on a limited number of carriers in each region to support the revenue sharing model more effectively. I do not wonder why the highest cost supplier does not have a dominant market share, but the difference between adoption in USA and Japan varies greatly from the experience in EU and China. That seems like a network compatibility issue, notably Apple only recently adopting TD-LTE which China uses.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:54 AM   #61
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Yet analysts think even more should have been sold

I think analysts see Apple as being so successful with the iPhone that there really isn't much room for growth left. Apple absolutely dominates their market which is the high end smartphone. That is obvious from these numbers. And that's where all the profit is.

Sure there is a lot of market share they are missing in places like China and elsewhere around the world with cheap low end smartphones. However, there is little to no profit in that. So from a profit growth perspective, what's the point?

They are absolutely killing their competition. Apple already owns near 80% of the available profit and more "marketshare" is not going to change that because it has to come from unprofitable sectors. Wall Street understands that. I'm sure Apple does too. Their next move will be in an entirely different underserved market. They've already dominated smartphones and tablets just as they did with the MP3 player market.

Rumors are TV and home automation are next in line.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:04 AM   #62
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21192913

puts apple at 8.6% market share globally, way behind nokia 21.3% and Samsung 25.2%

This is a third year in a row drop of apple share, that was once up at around 15% with the iPhone and iPhone 3G, its been falling since.

One phone model (different ram sizes and last years model still for sale don't count)= no choice, and a consumer base that wants choice of handsets, different sized screens, and a battery that lasts a full day without being charged means apples market share will continue to dwindle until it cottons on to the fact that people are past the iPhone as fashion statement, and now want a device that actually works, is robust enough to exist outside a padded case without getting chipped and scratched, and has expand-ability to add storage via an micro SD, replace the battery so you can carry a spare, and have the battery life to last a full day.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:06 AM   #63
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This image is so wrong it's not even funny. Apple's share of U.S. market is 51.4% but that is UP. Android's share of the U.S. market is 44%, but that represents a DROP. Android is falling fast in the United States. It was over 60% at one point. The iPhone however has been on a consistent upward market share grab.

The 51.4% number is the first time Apple ever had over 50% of the U.S. market and it continues to grow and take share away from Android. Android has to find some way to stop bleeding marketshare in the U.S. because iOS is eating it up.

Last edited by newagemac; Jan 25, 2013 at 10:12 AM.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:59 PM   #64
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It's because, unlike the rest of the world, the US consumers flock towards heavily subsidized phones which lock them into costly 2 year contracts.
Yeah, the US consumers are idiot my friends. Thank you for the insight.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:46 PM   #65
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Seriously!

This whole 84% claim is just wrong! Here I drew you a picture (http://www.ltzllc.com/tempimg/clarification.jpg). Take careful note of the vertical scale to the left of each bar and the variables 'X' and 'Y' that there is no data for! No way 84% of SALES were iPhones. There is no iPhone only SALES data, and the ACTIVATION data includes iPhones AT&T DID NOT SELL! This article is trolling!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:04 PM   #66
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What has to do the price of the device to be counted as smartphone or not?
NO it's not. Because selling a sub $100 plasticky fake smartphone that can't even run Angry birds is the same as selling an iphone.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:20 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Nightarchaon View Post
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21192913

puts apple at 8.6% market share globally, way behind nokia 21.3% and Samsung 25.2%

This is a third year in a row drop of apple share, that was once up at around 15% with the iPhone and iPhone 3G, its been falling since.

One phone model (different ram sizes and last years model still for sale don't count)= no choice, and a consumer base that wants choice of handsets, different sized screens, and a battery that lasts a full day without being charged means apples market share will continue to dwindle until it cottons on to the fact that people are past the iPhone as fashion statement, and now want a device that actually works, is robust enough to exist outside a padded case without getting chipped and scratched, and has expand-ability to add storage via an micro SD, replace the battery so you can carry a spare, and have the battery life to last a full day.
SOoooo tired of statements like this. Go buy Android. Oh wait, HTC Sony Motorola Google and even LG now all seal the battery and dont allow users to put in micro sd card anymore.

Last edited by agaytime; Jan 26, 2013 at 06:58 PM.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:45 PM   #68
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NO it's not. Because selling a sub $100 plasticky fake smartphone that can't even run Angry birds is the same as selling an iphone.
Fake smartphone? What is a fake smartphone?

A $100 smartphone is not the same than an iPhone or a Galaxy SIII but if apps can be installed and run it is an smartphone or are you saying that the original iPhone was not an smartphone?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 05:52 PM   #69
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...or are you saying that the original iPhone was not an smartphone?
I hope so - everyone should realize that the original Iphone was not a smartphone. It was a touch-screen feature phone.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:57 AM   #70
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Yeah, the US consumers are idiot my friends. Thank you for the insight.
Of course. The private sector spends tens of millions lobbying our government to make unlocking illegal for example, yet to the low information told what to think average idiot Joe consumer, they believe that it's the government who is to blame.

Of course these same geniuses do not spend even a minute to see the affiliation of the elected officials who again and again votes for this crap, who protect our uncompetitive market - (R).
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:57 PM   #71
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Fake smartphone? What is a fake smartphone?

A $100 smartphone is not the same than an iPhone or a Galaxy SIII but if apps can be installed and run it is an smartphone or are you saying that the original iPhone was not an smartphone?
I'm telling ya the majority of the so-called Android smartphones being sold world-wide are feature phones that run Android. They simply cannot install any app. But sure you must be right because you think Apple sucks and I must be right because I think Apple does not.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 08:09 PM   #72
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I'm telling ya the majority of the so-called Android smartphones being sold world-wide are feature phones that run Android. They simply cannot install any app.
Examples?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:50 AM   #73
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I'm telling ya the majority of the so-called Android smartphones being sold world-wide are feature phones that run Android. They simply cannot install any app.
Any source or it is product of a fertile imagination like your second paragraph?

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But sure you must be right because you think Apple sucks
Can you point any ****ing message where I have implied that Apple sucks?

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Old Jan 29, 2013, 12:06 AM   #74
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I think analysts see Apple as being so successful with the iPhone that there really isn't much room for growth left. Apple absolutely dominates their market which is the high end smartphone. That is obvious from these numbers. And that's where all the profit is.

Sure there is a lot of market share they are missing in places like China and elsewhere around the world with cheap low end smartphones. However, there is little to no profit in that. So from a profit growth perspective, what's the point?

They are absolutely killing their competition. Apple already owns near 80% of the available profit and more "marketshare" is not going to change that because it has to come from unprofitable sectors. Wall Street understands that. I'm sure Apple does too. Their next move will be in an entirely different underserved market. They've already dominated smartphones and tablets just as they did with the MP3 player market.

Rumors are TV and home automation are next in line.
there's absolutely profit potential in china. china is the second biggest market after US making ~$8B in revenue last quarter.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:28 AM   #75
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there's absolutely profit potential in china. china is the second biggest market after US making ~$8B in revenue last quarter.
Revenue is not profit. You can make a TON of revenue selling a bunch of low end phones to a large number of people. Unfortunately, that doesn't translate into profit. The overwhelming majority of the Chinese phone market consists of those purchasing the low profit, low end phones.

That's because in comparison to the U.S., the people just don't have as much income. And that's because the pay is much lower due to the lower standard of living in dollar value. That's why iPhones are made in China, after all.
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