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Old Jan 26, 2013, 02:57 AM   #476
macUser2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewood View Post
It may be your device, but AT&T and Apple still owns the copyrights to the software that run the radios....
Apple also owns a whole bunch of rights relating to the hardware and the design of your iPhone.... This is absolute BS, which both the software industry and the media companies (with the backing of many bought and paid members of Congress) are trying to get the public to accept.

The main reason for the distinction between hardware and software is that hardware is governed by laws which are relatively firmed up and widely accepted. Software allowed corporations and their attorneys to spin a new concept in IP, with the aim of increasing profits by more efficiently milking the consumer. The publishers are trying to do exactly the same with ebooks.

You pay for the phone, it's yours to do as you please. You should be able able to legally jailbreak it, mod it, put pink and gold case on it, etc.. If any of these modifications cause a failure, Apple or the carrier may refuse to honor whatever warranty they provide, but that's about it.

DMCA is evil and only those directly benefiting from it, or complete dimwits, can honestly support it.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:38 AM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macUser2007 View Post
Uhm, your contract says you have to pay a certain amount each month to the carrier, or pay a termination penalty. The hardware is yours.

Why do you think your phone should be locked, as long as you continue to pay to the carrier what you agreed to pay them?

It'd be the same as if the bank which gave you your mortgage loan refuses to allow you to rent your house, or to allow your in-laws to move in -- it makes no sense. You are either being disingenuous, or just too used to being screwed to notice that there is a problem.
Yes, this is extremely screwed up and it's wrong.

But I was talking about what the laws should be. You then pivoted the conversation to what AT&T should do. Of course my answer will change if you change the question. You can't take my answer from one subject and apply it to a different subject.

Just to make it clear:

1) The law should allow companies that buy you things to set terms differently than they do for people who buy their own things.

2) Competition amongst cellular carrier should be great enough that the companies have to enact fair policies to keep from losing customers. The fact that this doesn't happen is messed up and proves there's no real competition.


Those are 2 very different subjects.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:33 AM   #478
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Why is this an Apple thread??? lol
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:56 AM   #479
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I bought my AT&T iPhone 5 on launch day. I learned that the Verizon iPhone 5 was GSM unlocked right around the time my return window had closed. Also, because of grandfathering I have a pretty fair monthly bill with AT&T and didn't want to jump ship to VZ.

At the same time I was really unhappy and frustrated that VZ iPhone 5 customers could use their phones in Europe with a local SIM card during travel and I could not. This really is unacceptable to me. Having to pay an upfront premium for this freedom when VZ customers have it already is just insane and absurdly unfair.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:12 AM   #480
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Originally Posted by achtung! View Post
but what's really sad in Portugal, is that most consumers don't know that if they bought an unlocked iPhone via apple store (web), it will just about the same price as buying a locked one in a store, locked to a carrier like Vodafone, TMN or Optimus. so it's pretty silly to buy a locked phone in Portugal nowadays.
Yeah but most only buy them trough operators under enterprise contracts. Almost nobody will drop 700€ just to get an iPhone (yet the companies end up paying more than the price).

Locking and branding phones should be ilegal, since long gone are the days that buying the phone locked would save some cash.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:37 AM   #481
NorEaster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Show me your title. Bet your ass you aren't the owner if you are making payments.

Don't like the unlock policy, pony up and pay in full and then the phone really is yours.
I actually do have a title (just like others on this thread have also claimed) and it does show my name on it. So perhaps you should educate yourself on differences in auto ownership laws from state to state before you embarrass yourself.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:51 AM   #482
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Originally Posted by NorEaster View Post
I actually do have a title (just like others on this thread have also claimed) and it does show my name on it. So perhaps you should educate yourself on differences in auto ownership laws from state to state before you embarrass yourself.
If your car is not paid for, it's not yours. The terms of it being in your possession are conditional.

When you can't afford to pay for something outright, the other party that provides a portion of the funding has the ability to dictate terms.

Paying for something outright negates this concern completely.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:23 PM   #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
If your car is not paid for, it's not yours. The terms of it being in your possession are conditional.
Actually, it is yours. It is subject to a lien, but you still have an ownership interest - you are still the owner, and you're the one who grants the lien.

Please take a course in security devices.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:54 PM   #484
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America is insane and backwards for implementing such a law. In some European countries it's the other way around and it's illegal to lock phones in the first place. In the UK it's illegal for your network to not give you an unlock code for your locked phone. I guess the US cares more about massive corporations than their citizens, but hey, what else is new?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:00 PM   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbrown View Post
Actually, it is yours. It is subject to a lien, but you still have an ownership interest - you are still the owner, and you're the one who grants the lien.

Please take a course in security devices.
Actually the way things are going these days, the AAA might declare that painting or adding a supercharger to your car to be illegal and may be a felony.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:57 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by Macist View Post
Assault rifle - legal. Unlocked phone - illegal.
Only in Amerikuh.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:17 PM   #487
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If you live in the US sign and share this on your social network. Lets chaneg this law

Please sign and share this to be able to unlock your phones
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...vices/nVQ4H6pM
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:22 AM   #488
jdiamond
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So it's LEGAL to jail break your iPhone, but...

When Steve Jobs tried to stop people from jail breaking their iPhone and running whatever Apps they wanted, the Supreme Court backed the people and said, "it's their phone - they can use it however they want to!"

But unlocking a phone to use on a different network or country on vacation - suddenly that's illegal... That's the kind of feature Apple should back, since it adds so much value to an iPhone....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwalls90 View Post
Just what the competitive telco landscape needs in the USA

/Sacrasm
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:29 AM   #489
Jmajeremy
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Wow, in Canada the law specifically states that we are allowed to unlock a phone and bring it to another provider. Once you own a phone, it's your property to do what you like with whether that's unlocking or throwing into the lake...
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 08:09 AM   #490
thehustleman
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Phone makers need to simply make their phones unlocked and insist that they stay unlocked
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 11:51 AM   #491
ssspinball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vartanarsen View Post
This is the problem right there...you have false sense of entitlement that this is "your phone".....no its not your phone.

My phone, that I paid $650 for in the Apple Store, is my phone(or at least much more "my phone" than your phone is your phone)

You signed a contract to get it for $200. Your monthly payments are for Service, not the device. ATT helped you by paying $450 difference for the device...thus they get to do what they want.

If you didnt want that, you should have walked in the Apple store and paid $650 for it..like myself and others.
You are quite mistaken, sir. Once that transaction has taken place it is MOST DEFINITELY the buyer's phone. This is not a lease/rental we are talking about here where you have to return the product when the contract is up. There's absolutely zero "false sense of entitlement" here and nice political talking point, btw.

It is perfect legal to buy a phone on contract and turn around and sell it on ebay that same day. You are still bound by the contract to pay monthly of course for the next two years whether you have the phone or not.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
Because I had the chance to buy an iPhone unlocked and I decided to let AT&T pay for it for me instead. That's the trade-off. When I have a choice and I take the path that gives someone else leverage, that's what I get.
No, the trade off is you are bound to pay the carrier for 2 years and can't leave without paying the ETF. The ETF is what covers the remaining subsidized cost of the phone.

There's nothing stopping you legally from selling a subsidized phone on ebay the same day you sign a contract. It's YOUR property at that point, not a lease or rental.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lazard View Post
AT&T sold it to you for $200 under the condition that you sign a two year contract and abide by their terms and conditions. If their T&C says that the phone is to remained locked for the length of the 2 yr contract, then who are you to complain. You sign their contract, you follow their rules.
There's nothing in the T&Cs that state the phone must remain locked for the entirety of the contract.

You seem to have a very anti-consumer mindset and I'm not sure why.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
1) The law should allow companies that buy you things to set terms differently than they do for people who buy their own things.
The law does allow this. That's why we have contracts that come with ETFs. The carrier is covered no matter what. Unlocking is a completely separate issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Small White Car View Post
2) Competition amongst cellular carrier should be great enough that the companies have to enact fair policies to keep from losing customers. The fact that this doesn't happen is messed up and proves there's no real competition.
Fully agree.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 03:31 PM   #492
lazard
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Originally Posted by ssspinball View Post

[/COLOR]

There's nothing in the T&Cs that state the phone must remain locked for the entirety of the contract.

You seem to have a very anti-consumer mindset and I'm not sure why.[COLOR="#808080"]

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If you bought a Device from AT&T, it may have been programmed with a SIM lock which will prevent it from operating with other compatible wireless telephone carriers’ services. If you wish to use this Device with the service of another wireless telephone carrier, you must enter a numeric Unlock Code to unlock the phone. AT&T will provide the Unlock Code upon request, provided that you meet certain criteria including, but not limited to the following: (a) your account has been active for at least sixty days and is in good standing (i.e. it has no past due amount or unpaid balance owed AT&T); (b) you have fulfilled your Service Commitment by expiration of any contractual term, upgrading to a new Device under AT&T’s standard or early upgrade policies, or payment of any applicable ETF; (c) your Device has not been reported lost or stolen; and (d) AT&T has the Unlock Code or can reasonably obtain it from the manufacturer. AT&T will unlock a maximum of five phones per account, per year. For Devices sold with a Prepaid Plan, AT&T will provide you with the Unlock Code upon request if you provide a detailed receipt or other proof of purchase of the phone and AT&T has the Unlock Code or can reasonably obtain it from the manufacturer. For further details on eligibility requirements and for assistance on obtaining the Unlock Code for your handset, please call 1-800-331-0500 or visit an AT&T company store.

http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/ar...less-terms.jsp
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:29 AM   #493
Xiroteus
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A read a bit on here, my only real thought is most will not care, if they can do something with no real way on anyone knowing they will.
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 05:30 PM   #494
oG $wank.
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if you live in the us please sign and share this petition to be able to unlock your phone again

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...legal/1g9KhZG7

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by mosesaro View Post
If you live in the US sign and share this on your social network. Lets chaneg this law

Please sign and share this to be able to unlock your phones
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...vices/nVQ4H6pM
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...legal/1g9KhZG7
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