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Old Jan 25, 2013, 02:11 PM   #26
webbuzz
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
OK, speaking for myself, I would prefer my local law enforcement get its instruction from instructors trained by an organization that doesn't have a political/economic agenda to promote the sales of weapons.



Apparently not.

Whether it is legal to hunt deer with .223 ammunition or not in some particular state doesn't concern me. Nobody needs an AR15 to hunt deer. Nobody needs a 30-round magazine to hunt deer. Maybe it would come in handy for someone licensed to exterminate wild boar, but, for normal hunting, nobody needs these weapons. Weapons should have a legitimate, legal purpose.
Did you not read the post that you responded to?

I said this
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The only mention of hunting in the national debate, are those that are pushing the "you don't need an AR-15 to hunt." A lot of states do not even allow the .223 round be used for hunting, not to mention the limit on magazine capacity.
State hunting laws do not allow a 30 round magazine, hunters are limited to 6 to 10 rounds, depending on state.

an AR-15 is no different than any other semi-automatic rifle, with the exception of magazine capacity. As I stated above, you cannot use a 30 round magazine hunting deer.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 09:45 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
Whether it is legal to hunt deer with .223 ammunition or not in some particular state doesn't concern me. Nobody needs an AR15 to hunt deer. Nobody needs a 30-round magazine to hunt deer. Maybe it would come in handy for someone licensed to exterminate wild boar, but, for normal hunting, nobody needs these weapons. Weapons should have a legitimate, legal purpose.
AR-15's are excellent hunting rifles. Coyotes, Mountain Lions, Turkeys, and many varmint are hunted with AR-15's. Now you might not need a 30 round mag, (or in some cases this is not even legal for hunting) but if you were wondering if the AR-15 has a legitimate purpose other then target shooting the answer is yes.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:37 PM   #28
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AR-15's are excellent hunting rifles.
What features make them excellent hunting rifles?

Are they particularly accurate?

What feature do they possess that works better for hunting than other rifles?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 10:50 PM   #29
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What features make them excellent hunting rifles?

Are they particularly accurate?

What feature do they possess that works better for hunting than other rifles?
About the same features that set these two rifles apart.


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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:41 PM   #30
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About the same features that set these two rifles apart.
I'm afraid I don't understand your point.

Could you please elaborate?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 07:39 AM   #31
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What features make them excellent hunting rifles?

Are they particularly accurate?

What feature do they possess that works better for hunting than other rifles?
They can be highly accurate and are used routinely in marksmanship competitions out to 1000 yards.

When I was living in western MT I used a match grade AR for shooting prairie dogs out to about 300 yards...
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:06 AM   #32
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They can be highly accurate and are used routinely in marksmanship competitions out to 1000 yards.
Sounds like they'd make excellent hunting guns then.

----------

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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
When I was living in western MT I used a match grade AR for shooting prairie dogs out to about 300 yards...
Why are you shooting prairie dogs at 300 yards?

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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:12 AM   #33
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They can be highly accurate and are used routinely in marksmanship competitions out to 1000 yards.

When I was living in western MT I used a match grade AR for shooting prairie dogs out to about 300 yards...
Not only are they very accurate, but they are also easy to take apart to clean and have very little kick when firing. For varmint hunting or any other smaller animals the AR15 and the Mini 14 ranch rifle are both excellent hunting rifles.

The ironic thing is that some believe that the AR15 needs to be banned, but they don't see any issue with the Mini 14 ranch rifle. Is it because the Mini 14 is offered in a classic wood style and has "ranch" in it's name? Those are the only reasons I can come up with.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:12 AM   #34
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Why are you shooting prairie dogs at 300 yards?


Getting rid of vermin that were digging holes on ranch land...cattle/horses step in the holes they dig and break their leg..
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:15 AM   #35
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Getting rid of vermin that were digging holes on ranch land...cattle/horses step in the holes they dig and break their leg..
So ... you get rid of them yet?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:18 AM   #36
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Getting rid of vermin that were digging holes on ranch land...cattle/horses step in the holes they dig and break their leg..
Prairie Dogs are perhaps the worse vermin known to man. All they do is destroy stuff, ruin range land and spread disease. We used to have an issue with them on some of our range land until we had the neighbors farm that piece of land. They moved away quickly when the plow was coming.

You must shoot at a far distance because if they even sense you are around they will go hide in their hole.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:19 AM   #37
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So ... you get rid of them yet?
On that piece of land we got rid of most of them...Its actually a big problem for many ranchers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muibDa8fpas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQPfClI7S4o
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:25 AM   #38
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On that piece of land we got rid of most of them...Its actually a big problem for many ranchers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muibDa8fpas

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQPfClI7S4o

I understand the need to rid farms and ranches of vermin but to video and celebrate blowing animals heads off is just sick to me, let alone the second one using bullets that are probably bigger than his dick.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:27 AM   #39
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I understand the need to rid farms and ranches of vermin but to video and celebrate blowing animals heads off is just sick to me, let alone the second one using bullets that are probably bigger than his dick.
different strokes for different folks...if you lived out there and owned some of this land or had animals that were injured and had to be put down because of the damage these rodents do i am sure you would think differently...

its also a hell of alot more humane than some of the alternatives which includes poison.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:33 AM   #40
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different strokes for different folks...if you lived out there and owned some of this land or had animals that were injured and had to be put down because of the damage these rodents do i am sure you would think differently...

its also a hell of alot more humane than some of the alternatives which includes poison.

Apparently, you have a comprehension problem. I think it's aggravated by your gun fetish. In any case, I said I understand the need to kill them on ranches and farms. It's the sick celebration of it with videos and 50 caliber bullets I take issue with. How dare you blame Hollywood violence and violent video games when your ilk posts crap like this all over YouTube?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:21 AM   #41
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Prairie Dogs are perhaps the worse vermin known to man. All they do is destroy stuff, ruin range land and spread disease.
Sad to see this type of thinking still prevails. Prairie dogs are an important part of the diet of a number of species. They may be inconvenient for you on your land, but, if there are no prairie dogs anywhere on any land, it makes it that much harder, for example, for Golden Eagles.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:49 AM   #42
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Sad to see this type of thinking still prevails. Prairie dogs are an important part of the diet of a number of species. They may be inconvenient for you on your land, but, if there are no prairie dogs anywhere on any land, it makes it that much harder, for example, for Golden Eagles.
Do you or your family make a living off the land? When you lose 400 acres to the dogs as my family did many years ago it becomes hard to maintain your herd of cattle without having to sell off part of them. It's easy to say well just sell off the cows and file for additional government disaster subsidy, but that doesn't make up the difference in a loss of production.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:06 PM   #43
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Prairie Dogs are perhaps the worse vermin known to man. All they do is destroy stuff, ruin range land and spread disease. We used to have an issue with them on some of our range land until we had the neighbors farm that piece of land. They moved away quickly when the plow was coming.

You must shoot at a far distance because if they even sense you are around they will go hide in their hole.
An overpopulation of prairie dogs is generally an indication of overgrazed land and poor farming practices as well as annihilation of coyotes and birds of prey through poorly thought out poisoning and habitat destruction.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:34 PM   #44
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About the same features that set these two rifles apart.

Image
Image
I wonder if there are separate accident statistics for each type of gun?

The top version has a lot more Rambo appeal for gun nuts making YouTube videos of themselves and their friends.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:43 PM   #45
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An overpopulation of prairie dogs is generally an indication of overgrazed land and poor farming practices as well as annihilation of coyotes and birds of prey through poorly thought out poisoning and habitat destruction.
It was in the Badlands of South Dakota. Good grazing practices or not prairie dogs will move in on you easily especially in drought conditions. I'm not saying that we always managed that piece of land perfectly since it was winter and calving range, but at some point the prairie dogs had to be dealt with if there was any chance of getting the land to produce again.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 01:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jnpy!$4g3cwk View Post
I wonder if there are separate accident statistics for each type of gun?

The top version has a lot more Rambo appeal for gun nuts making YouTube videos of themselves and their friends.
They are the same rifles
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 01:12 PM   #47
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Do you or your family make a living off the land? When you lose 400 acres to the dogs as my family did many years ago it becomes hard to maintain your herd of cattle without having to sell off part of them. It's easy to say well just sell off the cows and file for additional government disaster subsidy, but that doesn't make up the difference in a loss of production.
Damn that nature. It's always getting in the way ...

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Prairie dogs are a "keystone" species and play a major role in maintaining the prairie ecosystem. If prairie dogs go, many other species go with them. Deer mice, kangaroo rats, grasshopper beetles, lark bunting and mountain plovers are attracted to prairie dog towns. Black-footed ferrets (now highly endangered), eagles, hawks, coyotes, rattlesnakes, foxes, weasels and badgers eat prairie dogs.

Prairie dog burrows can provide homes for other species such as rabbits, snakes, and small rodents. Burrowing owls nest only in prairie dog burrows. Coyotes, foxes, and badgers enlarge and move into the burrows.

Plants also benefit from the activities of prairie dogs. Prairie dogs keep the soil from becoming compacted, and they constantly bring buried seeds to the surface. Prairie dogs like to see long distances, so they clip off tall vegetation, improving the nutrient value of native grasses. They create patches of bare soil which are excellent sites for annual grasses and wildflowers to become established.

http://www.fcgov.com/naturalareas/pd...rie-dogs06.pdf
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 02:05 PM   #48
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They are the same rifles
I am perfectly aware that they have the same mechanics, but are different models. You missed the point. Using the car analogy again, you could put the same 400 cu in. V8 in the same chassis, put some Upper Middle Class sheet metal around it the Buick and call it a (what -- Electra?), or in a GTO and advertise it as a hot car. Same car/rifle, different users, different statistics.

I guess you thought I didn't realize that they were "the same" -- you missed the point that I did get that they are "the same", but, what you don't get is that they are not the same. What you, and others, don't get, is that weak-minded individuals obviously do respond to the mystique, acquire Assault Rifles that they don't need, and don't know how to use safely. You can't have it both ways. If the rifle is just a ranch tool, why advertise it as the only thing between your family and the U.N. helicopters? Like a lot of people, I'm fed up with specifically with the gun nut aspect-- it does have moral consequences.

I don't doubt that rural people need rifles to shoot rabbits. Do they need rifles configured so that they can be fired at automatic rifle rates? Do they need fake bayonet mounts? You may think it is an amusing fad, but, the reality is that people die because of it.
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Old Jan 29, 2013, 10:49 PM   #49
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When the NWTF pulled out, I knew larger organizations/companies would follow suit. Good for them.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:45 AM   #50
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It was in the Badlands of South Dakota. Good grazing practices or not prairie dogs will move in on you easily especially in drought conditions. I'm not saying that we always managed that piece of land perfectly since it was winter and calving range, but at some point the prairie dogs had to be dealt with if there was any chance of getting the land to produce again.
Unfortunately, the land management practices of the Badlands were often flawed and actually accentuated the problem. Hunting prairie dogs is a temporary fix that ignores a the more important lack of biodiversity that makes the grassland weaker and less able to support cattle.

If you want to fix the land, you need fewer black rifles and more black-footed ferrets.
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