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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:43 PM   #76
Bahroo
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All these other companies are putting pressure on Apple...all Apple has to do is apply pressure back
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:46 PM   #77
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Make no mistake, people telling you Apple is no longer a growth company are smoking trees, same as the people who tell you that Apple will be a 1,000 company. What this is is the a lack of conviction and trust in Tim Cook's leadership. This squarely falls on his shoulders.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:50 PM   #78
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It's insane how far it has fallen in 48 hours. I am going to buy back in around $400, which it will inevitably reach this quarter. Not warranted, but the street has no faith in AAPL right now.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:55 PM   #79
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It's now the world's most valuable publicly traded company again... For a while, anyway.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:56 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by SuperMatt View Post
The "smartest people in the world" who somehow misjudged the housing market so badly that they plunged our country into a depression. Yes, those "smartest people" indeed.
They made a ton of money up to the top of that bubble, then they got to discreetly dump all of their bad investments on us taxpayers so they wouldn't have to feel the losses. And that very year, they paid themselves the biggest bonuses in history. If that isn't smart, I don't know what is.

Remember the justification for the emergency bailout? "Too big to fail". So certainly since then we've broken up those Wall Street companies that were too big to fail, right? No, we helped them get even bigger.

Certainly many of the architects of that crash went to jail, right? None of them went to jail. Certainly, they lost their jobs as the heads of their Wall Street empires? Almost none of them lost their jobs (just one that I know of). Etc.

Wall Street dumb for "letting" AAPL fall? They get paid their commissions as we buy any stock and they get paid their commissions AGAIN as we sell any stock. Whether we win on a trade or lose on a trade, they also get theirs.

Their institutional arms rides the bull on the way up (and profits handsomely) and then shorts it for just as much profit on the way down. It matters little to them whether it's rising or falling... they just want it moving because movements drive profits plus commissions.

They don't have to manufacture anything (but smoke & spin) and yet they find ways to squeeze themselves into every other company's transactions (via credit) so that they get a little share of just about every-single transaction we make. All of them. Everything. Pay for a dollar menu burger with credit or debit and Wall Street will get a little piece of that transaction.

They also motivate our leadership in Washington to take us all deeper and deeper into debt. Why? Because there's so much interest/fees/etc in "financing the debt" and "raising the debt ceiling". They even motivate that same leadership to take our tax dollars, loan that money to Wall Street at dirt cheap (slightly over 0% right now) so that Wall Street can then loan us taxpayers our own money and charge us 3% or more. It's our money being loaned to us but it's free profit for them.

Lastly, there was once a time when the reason to put our money in a bank was to keep the thieves from stealing it. It was much more secure in the bank. Now the banks- through ever-evolving nickel & diming fees- get to reach right into our own accounts and take fees without even alerting us before they do so. We usually find out after they've taken the money. Does that kind of thief go to jail? Not at all. It's just "good business"

And don't even get me started about the enormous well of hidden fees taken from our 401Ks, mutual fund investments, etc. If there was ever a law that would force full disclosure of all fees taken from the masses by the banks, there would probably be riots & revolution.

We're the dumb ones. We can only profit on AAPL by first paying Wall Street to allow us to buy some of those shares and then we can only profit if it moves one way. We're too dumb to put in stops or to short to make money on the way down too because we would rather cling to "long term", "this makes no sense" and similar hope-based trading. I wish I could get the world to give me a nickel for every time "hope" was used to justify sticking with a falling stock.

Yes, I'd say they're the smartest guys in the world. I don't like it one bit. But facts is facts.

Last edited by HobeSoundDarryl; Jan 25, 2013 at 01:56 PM.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 12:58 PM   #81
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A company that everybody looked forward to making great products is the same company that everybody now wants to force innovation or listen to the analysts. Wow, you guys are idiots.

Apple has always been innovating more than any single company in this world. They have always taken time to perfect their products. Not to say, there have been failures and upsets given they are human too but the current state of the human brain on forums and blogs is depressing.

Most of these folks don't even know how a software development cycle works and what it takes to make something new and bring it into the new world. Not just make something new; but make something better and different and useful for the mass amount of users.

It's a shame that 'most' of the anti-apple folks on all of these forums and depressed souls and have absolutely no ****ing clue about what they really want.

This activity feels highly retarded.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:01 PM   #82
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I've finally come around to waiting for something big to change at Apple. Seems that Tim is in over his head. You need someone who can connect with the technology consumer. Someone who can sell you on the company no matter what they say. Tim ain't it. He needs to find someone to come up with the product ideas and be able to market them or he needs to get out of the way.

Apple is doing fine financially at the moment. Its products are very good. There is no real fault to those. The problem is that there is no longer a cheerleader, a salesman to explain why you have to have one. There is no one marketing Apple. There is no one effectively describing why Apple or its products are any good.

Tim apologizing for Apple maps was a disaster. How could he possibly apologize without listing the benefits, all its features that are better than what iOS had before. If someone at Apple doesn't sing its praises why would anyone else? If Tim thought it was such a bad product, why did he ever let it out the door?

He's been making too many serious mistakes. The market and consumers let them slide before, but patience has run out. Hiring Browett to lead retail was equally baffling.

I don't think there is a bottom to the stock until someone else becomes the public face of Apple. I could see it back to $70/shr. Will take a little while as sales dry up, but will happen unless something changes.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:04 PM   #83
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Who can say what will happen. The past doesn't equal the future.
No one knows what could/would be the next industry disruptor or if Apple's next "big" product will succeed. We know they certainly sell a ton of iOS devices.

But any company can struggle maintaining/sustaining the kind of growth Apple has had for the last several years.

Apple is a great company. But those convinced that they are infallible/untouchable could be in denial.

Like I wrote above - no one knows. Some small start up tomorrow could wind up the "Apple" of the future in 5/10/15 years. Or Apple could continue it's growth pattern. All conjecture.

It's important to remember that analysts, board posters, etc saying that it's a forgone conclusion that Apple's stock is going to rise again or crash is just citing rhetotic. The stock market is full of stories of meterioc rises and crashes. Companies that turn on a dime. Yadda Yadda...

Last edited by samcraig; Jan 25, 2013 at 01:35 PM.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:05 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL18 View Post
Hi All,

First posting because I am a long term investor in AAPL - and quite frankly, this selling makes perfect sense. I am not currently selling because I am underwater, but also don't believe that this is the time to sell anyways.

Here is why:

1) AAPL is 67% institutionally owned.

2) AAPL posted a great quarter, but showed that the days of triple digit iPad/iPhone YOY growth are pretty much over, and EPS has slowed to single digits (down from Q1 2012, where YOY growth was 116%).

These two facts are the most important explanatory reasons for the sell off. YOY growth at 116% with a P/E of 13 is a growth investors dream. 1 year later the EPS is down to 7%, so they exit.

The stock fell from 700 to 500 because people expected the days of triple digit to be over. I bought in during this fall (closer to 500, luckily), understanding that it could be a long road for AAPL - but I also believed that China would be its present and future. I was extremely surprised at how narrowly they beat the street.

The most recent fall is a combination of a narrow beat and poor guidance. What is causing the fall to be even nastier is that Peter admitted that this guidance was realistic - he was no longer wasting our time with stupidly low numbers (even though the numbers he presented should be low).

The current pattern for AAPL in my opinion is a transition from a growth stock into a blue-chip/value-stock and this will take time. The institutions that had it as a growth stock will be dumping very aggressively. Fundamentals will fly out the window short term and we will be in a land of technical indicators and modeling.

Wait it out guys. Huge fundamentals and a low P/E with a dividend are not a bubble stock, don't be fooled. Finally, growth investors are skiddish and could easily come running back with new product or huge deals with massive carriers. They drove it up really fast, and are exiting very fast. If you played the earnings like I did, you ran this risk. Hopefully you don't need the money in the next 3 months.

Good luck to all AAPL share holders and be patient!

The entire reason why I read through mac rumors comments is to read posts like this.


I wish everyone post could be more like this
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:06 PM   #85
stukick
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Wow, is that stock price plummeting!
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:11 PM   #86
samcraig
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Well it could very well close at a 52 week low today. It's already "visited" that threshold a few times during the day
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:11 PM   #87
Ryth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL18 View Post
Hi All,

First posting because I am a long term investor in AAPL - and quite frankly, this selling makes perfect sense. I am not currently selling because I am underwater, but also don't believe that this is the time to sell anyways.

Here is why:

1) AAPL is 67% institutionally owned.

2) AAPL posted a great quarter, but showed that the days of triple digit iPad/iPhone YOY growth are pretty much over, and EPS has slowed to single digits (down from Q1 2012, where YOY growth was 116%).

These two facts are the most important explanatory reasons for the sell off. YOY growth at 116% with a P/E of 13 is a growth investors dream. 1 year later the EPS is down to 7%, so they exit.

The stock fell from 700 to 500 because people expected the days of triple digit to be over. I bought in during this fall (closer to 500, luckily), understanding that it could be a long road for AAPL - but I also believed that China would be its present and future. I was extremely surprised at how narrowly they beat the street.

The most recent fall is a combination of a narrow beat and poor guidance. What is causing the fall to be even nastier is that Peter admitted that this guidance was realistic - he was no longer wasting our time with stupidly low numbers (even though the numbers he presented should be low).

The current pattern for AAPL in my opinion is a transition from a growth stock into a blue-chip/value-stock and this will take time. The institutions that had it as a growth stock will be dumping very aggressively. Fundamentals will fly out the window short term and we will be in a land of technical indicators and modeling.

Wait it out guys. Huge fundamentals and a low P/E with a dividend are not a bubble stock, don't be fooled. Finally, growth investors are skiddish and could easily come running back with new product or huge deals with massive carriers. They drove it up really fast, and are exiting very fast. If you played the earnings like I did, you ran this risk. Hopefully you don't need the money in the next 3 months.

Good luck to all AAPL share holders and be patient!
Yep I agree except with the 3 digit growth. I think with China Mobile and the 36 new LTE carriers and T-Mobile...you will actually see this sky-rocket again, especially if they come out with the 'cheaper' entry level phone for these areas.

Any other company would sell their soul to have Apple's fundamentals, revenues, and product line where they are weeks behind because people want their iPhone and iPad.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:13 PM   #88
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Good. Pressure reduced.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:16 PM   #89
MTL18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryth View Post
Yep I agree except with the 3 digit growth. I think with China Mobile and the 36 new LTE carriers and T-Mobile...you will actually see this sky-rocket again, especially if they come out with the 'cheaper' entry level phone for these areas.
I like your optimism, but just don't think it is realistic. Triple digit iPhone growth for Q1 2014 would be 100 million phones. Apple admitted that its supply lines were maxed out while making 48 million phones. China Mobile will provide great growth in the future, I think it will help Apple stay in the 40-50% growth window.

Also, be careful what you wish for with the cheaper phone. Lower iPad margins are ultimately what crushed EPS this quarter. If you do the same to the iPhone, you could face a period where EPS goes down despite revenue climbing. Innovation at this point is new products, it is not spin off products that chop out your huge margins. My 0.02.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:20 PM   #90
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Shares outstanding have been dropping for the past year or so as well, by as far as I can tell about 50m shares so far out of almost 1B.

Rocketman

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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:22 PM   #91
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it wasn't true then...and it certainly isn't true now.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:23 PM   #92
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This is what happens when the average everyday joe thinks AAPL can do no wrong. Nothing grows forever, people buying shares in the mid 600's and higher are all holding a big loser right now.

People need to learn how wall street works, when everyone is buying you should be selling, when no one says it can go down is time to get out. People got greedy. Stocks take the staircase up and elevator down.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:27 PM   #93
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Is Apple the New Microsoft?

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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:28 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by winston1236 View Post
No theyre not. If you think exxon is just to close its doors and shut down when oil is gone youre crazy. They will be right there selling whatever energy source of the future is.
I'm saying their domination is coming to an end. The energy sector is ripe for a major disruption in the next decade or two. Those that adapt will remain, many others will falter and fail.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:29 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by NT1440 View Post
Good move by Al Gore pickup up over $46 milion in stock, especially in a down time!

Keep an eye on the stock this year guys, and be ready to eat your crow

Big things coming.
ATTN

If you like this post, then you'll love the Yahoo Finance Message Boards.

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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:40 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by apple-win View Post
Does Exxon Mobile have better balance sheet than Apple?

Exxon Mobile is oil company. Apple is a consumer electronic company. For long term investment, Exxon Mobile stock is a better bet than Apple stock.
Even google is a better investment as there source of revenue is pretty much guaranteed. (ad revenue) The only issue with tech stocks is that they seem to become overvalued far too easily and then they drop like crazy and level out to where they should be.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:41 PM   #97
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:42 PM   #98
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deleted (misread the quote) What a difference "n't" makes!

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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:44 PM   #99
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You think you got problems....

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It's freaking killing me that I bought at $605. I'm not selling (this is a long-term investment), but it's a little soul-crushing watching the stock keep dropping. It'll come back up, though, but it's hard to take right now.
"Soul-crushing"??? I decided NOT to buy at $13 years ago.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 01:44 PM   #100
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Banked 7grand on my 410 puts. Good week.
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