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Old Jan 27, 2013, 08:36 AM   #101
bonskovsky
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it would explain why the mini out sells the regular iPad.
lol

Sorry

Maybe that's why Apple is copping out on sales figures for the device.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:07 AM   #102
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I do want an iPad mini, but find the current model lacking in several areas:
- No Retina Display.
- No A6/A6X processor.
- No 2600 MHz LTE support (= not LTE in most of Europe).

Some day...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:17 AM   #103
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The iPad mini is superior to any other apple product currently on the market.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:29 AM   #104
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The iPad mini is superior to any other apple product currently on the market.
Superior is incorrect but overpriced just like the iPod touch 5 about sizes it up if one needs to throw around a description.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:39 AM   #105
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I think the iPad mini is Apple's weakest offering. It doesn't live up to the iPad standard because it doesn't have a retina display.
I disagree.

Well though out, and selling well in a hugely popular segment that Apple ignored for far too long, the mini is proof that with massive competitive pressure, Apple will actually wake up & join the party.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:40 AM   #106
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"It's just like the last one!"
That's the consensus I'm getting from so many people.

I don't want that kind of reputation. It almost makes me want to go Android.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:17 AM   #107
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Superior is incorrect but overpriced just like the iPod touch 5 about sizes it up if one needs to throw around a description.
Overpriced is incorrect. The mini is far superior.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:25 AM   #108
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I don't think one device is superior to the other; they both fulfil different jobs. A full size iPad is a great laptop replacement, an iPad mini is a great on the go device.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:27 AM   #109
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I tried the mini but preferred my Kindle Fire HD. The mini was okay but expensive and unimpressive compared to the Kindle.

I feel Apple have lost the edge recently. The iPad 4 I tried was also singularly unimpressive. No wonder the stock had tanked!
Kindle Fire HD more impressive than ipad? LOL!!! That's funny. I've had all three and ipad beat kindle hands down.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:00 AM   #110
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I could tell you what compelled me to buy every Apple product I own. But as for the mini, there was nothing that compelled me to buy it. If the iPad mini is not their weakest offering, what is?

I looked at it for about 5 seconds.
I didn't realise that the industry had switched to "whether bonskovsky feels like buying one or not" as the new ISO standard for how product desirability is measured. How does this new standard work? How does it measure things like whether or not you've got a big bonus to blow or the store you walk into having something that's not in your normal price range on sales price? I want to hear more about this fascinating and innovative market research tool.

It's a matter of opinion. You don't like it, that's fine. My nephew got one for Christmas and loves it, that's also fine. Neither of those events makes the ipad mini apple's "weakest" or "strongest" product.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:08 PM   #111
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I didn't realise that the industry had switched to "whether bonskovsky feels like buying one or not" as the new ISO standard for how product desirability is measured. How does this new standard work? How does it measure things like whether or not you've got a big bonus to blow or the store you walk into having something that's not in your normal price range on sales price? I want to hear more about this fascinating and innovative market research tool.

It's a matter of opinion. You don't like it, that's fine. My nephew got one for Christmas and loves it, that's also fine. Neither of those events makes the ipad mini apple's "weakest" or "strongest" product.
Nonsense. Apples strongest product is their MacBookę. Don't be so na´ve.

I used to visit Apple's website all the time. During their last offerings. I think you can tell that the iPhone 4S and last round if products are the last ones that Jobs actually worked on.

Last edited by bonskovsky; Jan 27, 2013 at 12:17 PM.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 12:16 PM   #112
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Superior is incorrect but overpriced just like the iPod touch 5 about sizes it up if one needs to throw around a description.
How can something be overpriced when Apple says they can't make enough of them to meet demand?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:01 PM   #113
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I think the iPad mini is Apple's weakest offering. It doesn't live up to the iPad standard because it doesn't have a retina display.
I disagree. I don't think that the iPad 'standard', as you seem to think exists, is defined by the display. In fact I think we could say that it is most definitely not. Because if that was THE defining factor Apple would have put a Retina Display in the Mini.

So why did they since that is the key feature of the iPad design. Or rather why isn't it the key feature. How about because the quality of the screen is more than sufficient for content that was rendered appropriately for the screen resolution that bumping it up to a Retina quality wasn't worth sacrificing what is in fact the key factor -- the battery life.

Due to the smaller physical form of the Mini and a lack of stellar change in battery tech, the Mini would have much lower an expected battery life than a full sized iPad if a retina display was used. But the non retina needs less battery and thus balances with the inherent lower battery capabilities to keep the expected life at the same level. Battery life is one spec that even Grandma can generally understand which is why they focus on it over PPI, gigaflops of processor power or whatever.

And consider for a moment the display itself. It's the same resolution as the iPad 2, not a resolution that gives the same image quality. And pushed into a smaller size. Which means by it's very nature the pixels must be smaller. The PPI on the iPad 2 is 132, the PPI on the Mini using the same resolution is 163. For comparison, the PPI on the Retina Display is 264. So the Mini is already closer to Retina than the ipad 2. And that's assuming that people hold the Mini at the same distance as they would a full sized ipad. There are those that say that per Apple's math the ipads only need a PPI of about 220 to be defined as Retina so if that is correct then the iPad Mini isn't that far off.

Given these factors and the expected uses of the Mini it is no shock that Apple went for battery over display as the defining factor since many of the folks that were the target audience can't really tell a big difference between the display on an iPad 2 and iPad with Retina anyway

----------

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Originally Posted by luqtotheman View Post
I agree.

The mini is weak, they just made it because they knew they had to compete with the Nexus 7.
Apple doesn't design to compete with someone else's product. They really don't care about the other players. In fact, Steve was quoted on many occasions as putting forth the idea that Apple doesn't see this as a zero sum game where someone else's win is their loss. It's the same reasoning behind why they don't make everything like printers, speakers etc and why they aren't a phone company, an ISP etc.

Tim Cook et al put out the 8 inch iPad Mini because they felt that there was a market for it and a use for it among Apple users, enough that they disagreed with Steve's downplaying of smaller sized units. Steve allegedly told Tim to do what he felt was best and not to try to think and do as Steve did and would if he disagreed with it. Seems like Tim took that to heart and was swayed by Eddie Cue's arguing for a smaller iPad. Something they might have eventually done as the tech came into place regardless of the other players.

----------

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Originally Posted by bonskovsky View Post
I could tell you what compelled me to buy every Apple product I own. But as for the mini, there was nothing that compelled me to buy it. If the iPad mini is not their weakest offering, what is?
.
That you don't like it and didn't feel the need to buy it doesn't make it Apple's weakest product.

I looked at a Mac Pro for maybe two minutes and got a Mac Mini instead. So does that make the Mac Pro their weakest computer. No, just not the one I felt suits my needs.

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Originally Posted by darngooddesign View Post
iPod Shuffle
I would disagree on that as well. The Shuffle has an audience. It's doesn't include you but last I checked neither you nor our esteemed thread starter was put forth as the definition of whom Apple was designing for. So your opinions aren't particularly more valuable than anyone elses. Like say the workout fanatic that wants to have music while he's doing his thing but doesn't want to carry his iphone with him because it might get dropped. Since he has no need for doing anything more than perhaps skipping over a track he's heard so much he's bored with it, the simple click wheel works for him. And if he sweats all over and it stops working it's not a huge investment to get a new one. He would say that there's nothing weak about the iPod Shuffle at all.

----------

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Originally Posted by bonskovsky View Post
Wifi sync is worthless.
to you. But like basically everything you've said in this thread, your opinion is not universal. There are folks that find wifi sync to be very useful.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:03 PM   #114
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I disagree. I don't think that the iPad 'standard', as you seem to think exists, is defined by the display. In fact I think we could say that it is most definitely not. Because if that was THE defining factor Apple would have put a Retina Display in the Mini.

So why did they since that is the key feature of the iPad design. Or rather why isn't it the key feature. How about because the quality of the screen is more than sufficient for content that was rendered appropriately for the screen resolution that bumping it up to a Retina quality wasn't worth sacrificing what is in fact the key factor -- the battery life.

Due to the smaller physical form of the Mini and a lack of stellar change in battery tech, the Mini would have much lower an expected battery life than a full sized iPad if a retina display was used. But the non retina needs less battery and thus balances with the inherent lower battery capabilities to keep the expected life at the same level. Battery life is one spec that even Grandma can generally understand which is why they focus on it over PPI, gigaflops of processor power or whatever.

And consider for a moment the display itself. It's the same resolution as the iPad 2, not a resolution that gives the same image quality. And pushed into a smaller size. Which means by it's very nature the pixels must be smaller. The PPI on the iPad 2 is 132, the PPI on the Mini using the same resolution is 163. For comparison, the PPI on the Retina Display is 264. So the Mini is already closer to Retina than the ipad 2. And that's assuming that people hold the Mini at the same distance as they would a full sized ipad. There are those that say that per Apple's math the ipads only need a PPI of about 220 to be defined as Retina so if that is correct then the iPad Mini isn't that far off.

Given these factors and the expected uses of the Mini it is no shock that Apple went for battery over display as the defining factor since many of the folks that were the target audience can't really tell a big difference between the display on an iPad 2 and iPad with Retina anyway

----------



Apple doesn't design to compete with someone else's product. They really don't care about the other players. In fact, Steve was quoted on many occasions as putting forth the idea that Apple doesn't see this as a zero sum game where someone else's win is their loss. It's the same reasoning behind why they don't make everything like printers, speakers etc and why they aren't a phone company, an ISP etc.

Tim Cook et al put out the 8 inch iPad Mini because they felt that there was a market for it and a use for it among Apple users, enough that they disagreed with Steve's downplaying of smaller sized units. Steve allegedly told Tim to do what he felt was best and not to try to think and do as Steve did and would if he disagreed with it. Seems like Tim took that to heart and was swayed by Eddie Cue's arguing for a smaller iPad. Something they might have eventually done as the tech came into place regardless of the other players.

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That you don't like it and didn't feel the need to buy it doesn't make it Apple's weakest product.

I looked at a Mac Pro for maybe two minutes and got a Mac Mini instead. So does that make the Mac Pro their weakest computer. No, just not the one I felt suits my needs.

----------



I would disagree on that as well. The Shuffle has an audience. It's doesn't include you but last I checked neither you nor our esteemed thread starter was put forth as the definition of whom Apple was designing for. So your opinions aren't particularly more valuable than anyone elses. Like say the workout fanatic that wants to have music while he's doing his thing but doesn't want to carry his iphone with him because it might get dropped. Since he has no need for doing anything more than perhaps skipping over a track he's heard so much he's bored with it, the simple click wheel works for him. And if he sweats all over and it stops working it's not a huge investment to get a new one. He would say that there's nothing weak about the iPod Shuffle at all.
Well there has to be at least ONE weak product.

And the iPad mini is it. I'm not looking at this from a personal perspective. I'm looking at this from a perspective of why couldn't Apple make a smaller iPad with the latest specs.

I thought retina display was supposed to have been a standard. Where's the consistency in their products?

I mean if I knew that one day Apple would come out with a product with specs from 3 years ago, I would be scared, wouldn't you?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:04 PM   #115
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Ok. Also no airplay.
the iPad Mini has Airplay the same as all other devices. IF you have an Apple TV

That said, I do think that it's well into the time for Apple to be working on and releasing ad hoc wifi capability as well as Airplay between mobile device and Mac without needing an Apple TV. And hopefully they agree and this will come up in iOS 7 or 8. The adhoc wifi would be very useful to those that want to use an Apple TV connected to a projector for on the road presentations. Or even classrooms where they don't want the kiddies taping into actual internet connected wifi routers and getting on facebook during class.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:09 PM   #116
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the mini is popular because its cheap...it is apples entry level device for people . the only thing it is superior at is having outdated components inside...
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:15 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by bonskovsky View Post
Nonsense. Apples strongest product is their MacBookę. Don't be so na´ve.

I used to visit Apple's website all the time. During their last offerings. I think you can tell that the iPhone 4S and last round if products are the last ones that Jobs actually worked on.
Rather like your accusation that Apple copped out on sales figures for the iPad mini etc, you can't prove this one. You don't likely work for Apple, have never worked for Apple and didn't know Steve to know what he was and wasn't working on. Tech development doesn't happen over night. In fact it is more often than not a good 3-5 years if not longer from idea to product. So yes perhaps Steve did work on the iPhone 5, the iPad Mini (at least in terms of the shape which might also be meant for future full sized iPads), the lighting connector. Plus the new iMacs, the next Apple TV box, the Mac Pros etc. We might not see the end of Steve's touch for a good decade after his death for some products.

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Originally Posted by bonskovsky View Post
Well there has to be at least ONE weak product.
In YOUR OPINION. But in the world the fact and logic, no there doesn't. Rather like Apple v Microsoft, Samsung etc, this is NOT a zero sum game. Apple doesn't have one singular audience that shares 100% the same needs, wants etc such that a buy of an iphone means that all other mobile devices suffer and so on. People have different needs, different tastes. Different products are released to suit that variety.

So no product must be the best or the worst, just that it serves a different audience with different needs, different wants and even a different number of members
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:31 PM   #118
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I think the mini is one of the best products that apple have released personally so light compact to hold and you can use it for hours unlike the 9'7 iPad i have both so i can comment when you are holding the 9'7 for a long period of time you just want to put it down and do something else with the mini you use the thing and only that stops you from using it because you have a flat battery and you have to put it on charge and come back to it when it charged.The only time that i use the 9'7 inch iPad now is when i'am watching a movie when i am at home a part from that i just the mini all the time.I think the mini will be a massive success in a couple of more years and maybe the 9'7 inch iPad won't be so popular i wouldn't be all surprised if the mini does take over slighty in sales but only time will tell and figures.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 02:28 PM   #119
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iPad 4 is the best most powerful tablet on the market today Period! If you want something small and compact with no power then buy the Mini Cooper.
the iPad 4 run mission critical operations for NASA!!??!! I use my mini to VNC into servers, read books, look up information, study for tests, research, and clearly it is all hampered by using it on my mini the horror
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 02:53 PM   #120
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the iPad Mini has Airplay the same as all other devices. IF you have an Apple TV

That said, I do think that it's well into the time for Apple to be working on and releasing ad hoc wifi capability as well as Airplay between mobile device and Mac without needing an Apple TV. And hopefully they agree and this will come up in iOS 7 or 8. The adhoc wifi would be very useful to those that want to use an Apple TV connected to a projector for on the road presentations. Or even classrooms where they don't want the kiddies taping into actual internet connected wifi routers and getting on facebook during class.
You missed my previous post. I had said that the Nano is the weakest of the line up right now:

Quote:
I think you're wrong... Maybe you shouldn't base your opinion on Specs alone. If anything I would say the Nano is the weakest offering. Priced high, low res screen, no wifi sync.
To which he said wifi sync is useless and I brought up Airplay which I absolutely love. I have an airplay stereo an airport express hooked to another speaker and an appletv3.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 03:03 PM   #121
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For me the iPad Mini is one great little device and I use it daily. I also have the iPad 3 and prior to that had the first-gen iPad and the iPad 2. I reach for the iPad Mini first every day and it is also the one which goes out-and-about with me when I leave the house. Yesterday I was going out and since the iPad Mini needed charging I carried the iPad 3 with me instead. I was startled at how much heavier it feels to me now -- it had been a while since I'd taken it out anywhere with me -- and what a difference that makes to me!

Sure, the iPad 3 is larger and has the beautiful retina screen.....but by gum, that iPad Mini is the winner in this household. I use the smaller iPad a lot more frequently and in a lot more situations. "Apple's weakest offering?" I definitely differ with that categorization!
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:59 PM   #122
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Now that I think about it, I'm going to retract my statement about the iPad mini being the weakest offering.

The real weakest offering is the Apple TV.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 07:08 PM   #123
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Now that I think about it, I'm going to retract my statement about the iPad mini being the weakest offering.

The real weakest offering is the Apple TV.
hahahaha you are something else bonskovky!...5000 views and 122 comments later and you say "now that i think about it..." you obviously didn't "think about it" before you posted....haha!!!!

anybody else entertained by bonskovsky?...anybody?...lol
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:50 PM   #124
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Do not make the mistake to consider the success of the iPad Mini only because it's cheap.

Someone buy it as entry level iPad, no doubt about it, someone else will switch to the bigger one when the iPad 5 will be released with the same form factor but the iPad Mini is a brilliant device anyway, even without Retina or astronomic specs. Someone just buy it for this reason.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:08 PM   #125
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hahahaha you are something else bonskovky!...5000 views and 122 comments later and you say "now that i think about it..." you obviously didn't "think about it" before you posted....haha!!!!

anybody else entertained by bonskovsky?...anybody?...lol
Yes. Lol. At this point it's funny. He's obviously a kid. I'm going to guess 11-13, maybe 14. While its annoying its cool to see young people participate and hopefully learning something. The Internet forums make you learn to have thick skin or go home crying to mommy. I think he'll be around a while.
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