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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:33 PM   #1
Sydde
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In Milwaukee, 9-1-1 is no longer good enough

Sheriff Clarke suggests arming yourself
MILWAUKEE (WITI) — The Milwaukee County Sheriff’s Office released a new public service announcement regarding gun safety on Thursday, January 24th that is getting attention for its bluntness.

In the PSA, Sheriff David Clarke says, “With officers laid off and furloughed, simply calling 911 and waiting is no longer your best option. You could beg for mercy from a violent criminal, hide under the bed, or you can fight back. But are you prepared? ... You have a duty to protect yourself and your family. We’re partners now. Can I count on you?”

Jacob Schneider is a firearms instructor at the MGS Group — attached directly to the Shooters Shop in West Allis — is happy someone has finally spoken up about the need to own a gun, “He is saying we are responsible, in a lot of cases for our own personal safety.”

“If he does not feel he is capable of doing this, and he’s not qualified to take on this role of public safety, he should resign and he should do it today,” said Jeri Bonavia of the non-profit Wisconsin Anti-violence Effort. Bonavia says Clarke is asking citizens to become vigilantes.
...

The office of Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett said in a statement: “Apparently Sheriff David Clark (sp) is auditioning for the next Dirty Harry movie.”
Really? Are we turning the country into Tombstone now?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:42 PM   #2
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so, why exactly isn't he resigning?
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 11:55 PM   #3
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Aren't budget cuts awesome...
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:22 AM   #4
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so, why exactly isn't he resigning?
Perhaps because as long as he is the duly elected sheriff, he draws a paycheck for, um, working. I guess his job is to posse-up the county and dep'tize every gun-toting proper citizen: who needs high taxes when you can have volunteers?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:43 AM   #5
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This is straight from the republican/libertarian play book. Eliminate public services to the point where every American is responsible for his/her own education, health, transportation and safety. This is exactly what Paul pere et fils want our country to become.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 02:40 AM   #6
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I guess I'm in the minority here in that I don't see a problem with people being encouraged to take a certified firearms safety training course so they can defend themselves incase someone breaks into their home (a part of the PSA which was omitted from this news report). Just because you call the cops doesn't mean they'll show up in time (if at all) and the police are under no legal obligation to come to your aid (at least not in the U.S.).

Warren v. District of Columbia
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By a 4-3 decision the court decided that Warren was not entitled to remedy at the bar despite the demonstrable abuse and ineptitude on the part of the police because no special relationship existed. The court stated that official police personnel and the government employing them owe no duty to victims of criminal acts and thus are not liable for a failure to provide adequate police protection unless a special relationship exists. The case was dismissed by the trial court for failure to state a claim and the case never went to trial.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 05:57 AM   #7
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Good for him! I agree completely.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 06:36 AM   #8
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Good for him....More LEOs should encourage people to be proactive about their own defense.

----------

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Originally Posted by Ugg View Post
This is straight from the republican/libertarian play book. Eliminate public services to the point where every American is responsible for his/her own education, health, transportation and safety. This is exactly what Paul pere et fils want our country to become.
sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 08:38 AM   #9
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Good for him....More LEOs should encourage people to be proactive about their own defense.[COLOR="#808080"]
So does that mean we can fire him and stop wasting tax money on him because he's as good as worthless?


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sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
Goddamnit, I'm so sick of republicans throwing the "personal responsibility" canned talking point around. It has nothing to do with this. We do not live in an anarchy. By your logic, we should get rid of the military as well and leave homeowners to purchase their own missiles and machine guns to protect their own homes. By your logic, only kids from wealthy families can go to school. It's the government's responsibility to make sure kids have access to free education. Let's not even get started on healthcare. I feel like you conservatives would all prefer to live in an anarchy with no government and every man for himself. Well guess what? Most people don't want to live like that. Most people prefer to live in a civilized society with social back-nets and proper law enforcement that protects the people. All of this paid for by TAXES. You know, taxes, those things that are necessary for the survival of any civilization. I know, the word tax is like poison to your ears. Your views are so backwards and skewed, they just don't identify with most of the population.

And btw, you wanna talk about personal responsibility? Tell it to the republicans whining how the government hasn't created any jobs for them. They're all for people getting jobs and paying for their own health insurance and education, but then when they can't find those jobs, who do they blame? THE BIG EVIL GOVERNMENT.

Your type of logic is the reason i will never stay out of politics, conservatives need to be fought tooth and nail to make sure they have zero influence. They've ruined this country enough, and we're fed up with them. Time for them to quit shoving their disgusting agendas down our throats.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:02 AM   #10
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So does that mean we can fire him and stop wasting tax money on him because he's as good as worthless?



Goddamnit, I'm so sick of republicans throwing the "personal responsibility" canned talking point around. It has nothing to do with this. We do not live in an anarchy. By your logic, we should get rid of the military as well and leave homeowners to purchase their own missiles and machine guns to protect their own homes. By your logic, only kids from wealthy families can go to school. It's the government's responsibility to make sure kids have access to free education. Let's not even get started on healthcare. I feel like you conservatives would all prefer to live in an anarchy with no government and every man for himself. Well guess what? Most people don't want to live like that. Most people prefer to live in a civilized society with social back-nets and proper law enforcement that protects the people. All of this paid for by TAXES. You know, taxes, those things that are necessary for the survival of any civilization. I know, the word tax is like poison to your ears. Your views are so backwards and skewed, they just don't identify with most of the population.

And btw, you wanna talk about personal responsibility? Tell it to the republicans whining how the government hasn't created any jobs for them. They're all for people getting jobs and paying for their own health insurance and education, but then when they can't find those jobs, who do they blame? THE BIG EVIL GOVERNMENT.

Your type of logic is the reason i will never stay out of politics, conservatives need to be fought tooth and nail to make sure they have zero influence. They've ruined this country enough, and we're fed up with them. Time for them to quit shoving their disgusting agendas down our throats.
Struck a nerve did I ? I am sorry that you find the idea of people not being interested in an all all-providing nanny state so offensive.

An LEO's job is not to "protect" citizens from harm. Ask them yourself. It is impossible for them to protect us from evildoers, and in most instances the best they can do is investigate a crime after the fact and work to identify and apprehend a suspect.

As a matter of fact, depending on where you live, from the time you first call 911 you may have up to a 20 minute wait for police to arrive. Where I live the response time of police is 5 minutes.

As far as personal responsibility goes, why is that such a dirty word ? It is in everyones self interest to learn how to take care of themselves in ALL areas, financial, health, personal defense, etc...I fail to understand why so many are so willing to believe the government is going to be able to be their sole provider.


On another note, why are other forms of profanity on this site filter yet the G-damnit phrase is not?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:03 AM   #11
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sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
A huge part of personal responsibility is agreeing to live as a society and choose to act in ways that benefits the whole and not just ourselves.

Putting one's resources and trust in a civilized society isn't an abdication of personal responsibility, it is an application of it.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:06 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Good for him....More LEOs should encourage people to be proactive about their own defense.

----------



sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
The problem with "personal responsibility" is where do you draw the line? If your house catches fire, are you willing to knock on your neighbor's doors and ask them to bring buckets of water or are you going to call the fire department? Or maybe instead of calling the police over a dispute we can just start shooting each other (which is what happened at the college in Houston earlier this week). Whoever is left standing, wins.

I had a conversation with a cousin shortly after the election in November. She blamed the victory on a bunch of people who wanted something for nothing voting for the President. As a loyal Fox News viewer she even threw around the word Socialism.

She then went on to complain that the people in her district voted down a measure on the ballot to fund the school band. She was outraged she would have to pay out of her own pocket for her daughter to participate. Obviously, the irony of this eluded her. We just can't have it both ways. And as much as people like to misuse the world socialism, I don't think anyone in this country is prepared to walk down the path of all or nothing.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:06 AM   #13
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A huge part of personal responsibility is agreeing to live as a society and choose to act in ways that benefits the whole and not just ourselves.

Putting one's resources and trust in a civilized society isn't an abdication of personal responsibility, it is an application of it.
Whats that got to do with thinking and expecting that the job of the police is to protect you like ORbs is implying???
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:07 AM   #14
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On another note, why are other forms of profanity on this site filter yet the G-damnit phrase is not?

Goddamnit is profanity? Give me a ****ing break.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:09 AM   #15
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The problem with "personal responsibility" is where do you draw the line? If your house catches fire, are you willing to knock on your neighbor's doors and ask them to bring buckets of water or are you going to call the fire department? Or maybe instead of calling the police over a dispute we can just start shooting each other (which is what happened at the college in Houston earlier this week). Whoever is left standing, wins.
Thats a bit of a stretch and you damn well know that is not what the Chief in Milwaukee is saying and not what I am saying...
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:12 AM   #16
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Whats that got to do with thinking and expecting that the job of the police is to protect you like ORbs is implying???
Can a someone embrace personal responsibility AND call the police when an intruder is trying to break into their house?

Or are those two mutually exclusive?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:13 AM   #17
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Thats a bit of a stretch and you damn well know that is not what the Chief in Milwaukee is saying and not what I am saying...
And you didn't know damn well what Ugg was saying? Do you really think Ugg "despises" personal responsibility?

As I said, you can't have it both ways.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:16 AM   #18
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Can a someone embrace personal responsibility AND call the police when an intruder is trying to break into their house?

Or are those two mutually exclusive?
Sure...if someone were breaking into my house Id be calling 911 first thing, but knowing that the cops wouldn't be there for 5-10 minutes Id also be prepared to defend myself if need be.

Again, the issue here is that it is impossible for police to protect you...though I am sure that some here would argue the point that if we were just willing to pay more in taxes we could have an officer in every home.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:16 AM   #19
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Whats that got to do with thinking and expecting that the job of the police is to protect you like ORbs is implying???
Imma going to sue for false representation.

In 1955, a contest was announced in the Los Angeles Police Department's internal magazine, BEAT. The contest involved devising a motto for the Los Angeles Police Academy. The motto needed to be something that would succinctly express the ideals to which those who serve as Los Angeles Police Officers are dedicated.

The winning entry, "to protect and to serve", was submitted by Officer Joseph S. Dorobek and served as the LAPD academy's motto until, by City Council action, it became the official motto of the entire Los Angeles Police Department in 1963. It continues to appear on the Department's patrol cars as a symbol of commitment to service.

"To protect and to serve" has become one of the most recognizable phrases in law enforcement. Throughout its almost 50 years of use, it has come to embody the spirit, dedication, and professionalism of the Officers of the Los Angeles Police Department.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:22 AM   #20
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Imma going to sue for false representation.

In 1955, a contest was announced in the Los Angeles Police Department's internal magazine, BEAT. The contest involved devising a motto for the Los Angeles Police Academy. The motto needed to be something that would succinctly express the ideals to which those who serve as Los Angeles Police Officers are dedicated.

The winning entry, "to protect and to serve", was submitted by Officer Joseph S. Dorobek and served as the LAPD academy's motto until, by City Council action, it became the official motto of the entire Los Angeles Police Department in 1963. It continues to appear on the Department's patrol cars as a symbol of commitment to service.

"To protect and to serve" has become one of the most recognizable phrases in law enforcement. Throughout its almost 50 years of use, it has come to embody the spirit, dedication, and professionalism of the Officers of the Los Angeles Police Department.
Im sorry, and no offense but anyone who truly thinks that the police are able to protect them from everything 24/7 and that they don't need to worry about defending themselves from bad people has their head up their ass.

Just ask this Philadelphia doctor..


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/us/pen...ead/index.html

Oh wait, you can't because the police were not able to protect her...
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:22 AM   #21
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Imma going to sue for false representation.

In 1955, a contest was announced in the Los Angeles Police Department's internal magazine, BEAT. The contest involved devising a motto for the Los Angeles Police Academy. The motto needed to be something that would succinctly express the ideals to which those who serve as Los Angeles Police Officers are dedicated.

The winning entry, "to protect and to serve", was submitted by Officer Joseph S. Dorobek and served as the LAPD academy's motto until, by City Council action, it became the official motto of the entire Los Angeles Police Department in 1963. It continues to appear on the Department's patrol cars as a symbol of commitment to service.

"To protect and to serve" has become one of the most recognizable phrases in law enforcement. Throughout its almost 50 years of use, it has come to embody the spirit, dedication, and professionalism of the Officers of the Los Angeles Police Department.
To protect and serve whom?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:29 AM   #22
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Im sorry, and no offense but anyone who truly thinks that the police are able to protect them from everything 24/7 and that they don't need to worry about defending themselves from bad people has their head up their ass.

Just ask this Philadelphia doctor..


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/us/pen...ead/index.html

Oh wait, you can't because the police were not able to protect her...
I don't think anyone expects it 24/7. And I don't expect many people believe that the police going to prevent every. single. crime.

And are you implying if she had a gun, she would have been able to protect herself? Like the family in New Mexico was able to do when their son attacked them? Oh wait...he murdered them using their own guns.

Like anything else, nothing is foolproof. At least in the case of the Dr. above, they were able to arrest the murderer within 24 hours.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:29 AM   #23
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Im sorry, and no offense but anyone who truly thinks that the police are able to protect them from everything 24/7 and that they don't need to worry about defending themselves from bad people has their head up their ass.

Just ask this Philadelphia doctor..


http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/us/pen...ead/index.html

Oh wait, you can't because the police were not able to protect her...
There you go again. Where did I say that?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:33 AM   #24
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To protect and serve whom?
Here is the mission statement of the LAPD:

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It is the mission of the Los Angeles Police Department to safeguard the lives and property of the people we serve, to reduce the incidence and fear of crime, and to enhance public safety while working with the diverse communities to improve their quality of life. Our mandate is to do so with honor and integrity, while at all times conducting ourselves with the highest ethical standards to maintain public confidence.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:38 AM   #25
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Lets be clear, cops cannot protect you in a break in situation until we have minority report type technology. Having a locked away firearm can be a responsible preventative measure. Either way, when your family is involved cowering and becoming a victim are not an option. 911 will be great for carting your kids bodies away because you rolled the dice on someone willing to break into a house sparing your lives.
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