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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:39 AM   #26
likemyorbs
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Moyank, that lapd statement sounds a bit socialist to me....
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:44 AM   #27
citizenzen
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Sure...if someone were breaking into my house Id be calling 911 first thing, but knowing that the cops wouldn't be there for 5-10 minutes Id also be prepared to defend myself if need be.
As would I.

I would for instance turn on outside lights to let the person know that the house is occupied and that I am aware of their presence.

I would likely be yelling at them that they'd better not continue breaking into my house and that the police are on their way.

I would likely grab my fire poker to hit them with if need be.

These are all measures of defense.

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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Again, the issue here is that it is impossible for police to protect you...
It's not "impossible".

Police protect people in a multitude of ways every day.

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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
There you go again. Where did I say that?
Where did we say that we expect the police to protect us from all harm 24/7?

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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Either way, when your family is involved cowering and becoming a victim are not an option.
Yes. I believe "cowering and becoming a victim" is exactly what we're advocating.

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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:44 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Lets be clear, cops cannot protect you in a break in situation until we have minority report type technology. Having a locked away firearm can be a responsible preventative measure. Either way, when your family is involved cowering and becoming a victim are not an option. 911 will be great for carting your kids bodies away because you rolled the dice on someone willing to break into a house sparing your lives.
So can an alarm and a few dogs. Let's be clear that guns aren't the only answer.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:49 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
Not everyone is like you, and is comfortable holding a gun. Nor is everyone able to defend themselves the same way.

If I'm amazing at playing the violin but a really crappy shot, would you encourage me to take up shooting practice at the expense of my violin playing? Part of living in a civilized society is that people pay something called a tax for services to be provided.

These services generally include a central covering body so that we don't live in anarchy. What you are proposing is that if everyone has a personal responsibility to be responsible for themselves, there is not reason to pay taxes for a shared responsibility.

Anarchy? Survival of the fittest? That's not how I want to live.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:53 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
So can an alarm and a few dogs. Let's be clear that guns aren't the only answer.
As long as you are willing to risk your family on the fact that someone who is willing to break into a house hasn't armed themselves as well. In the US this is an extremely bad bet to take.

An intruder is at a very real disadvantage when entering an unknown residence when we talk about firearms.

Screaming and alarms just lets the intruder know that they have 5-10 minutes to grab some loot and get out. Are you in the way of them achieving this goal?

Also most household pets do not have the training to take down an intruder. If they did, you probably wouldn't keep them around your kids.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:54 AM   #31
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Why such controversy?

It's simple. If you want to own a gun and have it in your home for personal protection good for you. If you don't want a gun in the house and want to rely solely on a locked door and 9-1-1 then good for you as well.

As for me, I will be standing there with my rifle as I call 9-1-1 hoping the lock holds. Most of us who are gun owners would prefer to never have to use them, but when you are like me and live alone it does offer some piece of mind while waiting on the police to show up.

It seems to me that the people who don't own guns think everyone shouldn't own one and the one's that do think everyone should be armed. It's your home, run it how you want.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:58 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
As long as you are willing to risk your family on the fact that someone who is willing to break into a house hasn't armed themselves as well. In the US this is an extremely bad bet to take.

An intruder is at a very real disadvantage when entering an unknown residence when we talk about firearms.

Screaming and alarms just lets the intruder know that they have 5-10 minutes to grab some loot and get out. Are you in the way of them achieving this goal?
And if I'm not comfortable with guns? If I have a problem with vision? The chances of me hurting someone in my household is just as great as stopping the actual intruder.

I would also say that my dogs wouldn't let anyone they didn't know do anything for 5-10 minutes. I'll be happy to PM my address if you'd like to test the theory.

It's asinine and ignorant to think that having a firearm in the house is the only answer.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 09:58 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by DakotaGuy View Post

It seems to me that the people who don't own guns think everyone shouldn't own one and the one's that do think everyone should be armed. It's your home, run it how you want.

And here we have more disingenuous bull ****. No one has said you shouldn't or can't own guns to protect your home.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:00 AM   #34
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It seems to me that the people who don't own guns think everyone shouldn't own one and the one's that do think everyone should be armed. It's your home, run it how you want.
This is the problem. You are assuming this is the case. Read the previous posts. Who here has stated that because I'm not comfortable owning a gun, I don't believe you should? All I'm reading are those saying that it's the only way to protect yourself.

Not everyone is against you. Stop being so paranoid and actually listen to what people are saying.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:02 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by thejadedmonkey View Post
Not everyone is like you, and is comfortable holding a gun. Nor is everyone able to defend themselves the same way.

If I'm amazing at playing the violin but a really crappy shot, would you encourage me to take up shooting practice at the expense of my violin playing? Part of living in a civilized society is that people pay something called a tax for services to be provided.

These services generally include a central covering body so that we don't live in anarchy. What you are proposing is that if everyone has a personal responsibility to be responsible for themselves, there is not reason to pay taxes for a shared responsibility.

Anarchy? Survival of the fittest? That's not how I want to live.
First off, where in this thread did I say anything about guns?

I said defend yourself...it does not have to be with a gun (although truth be told shotguns are so simple to use anyone can use one)...it can be with anything.

Once again, the point I am making, and the Chief is making is don't expect the police to be there to protect you.

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Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
And here we have more disingenuous bull ****. No one has said you shouldn't or can't own guns to protect your home.
Not in this thread anyway...
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:08 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Moyank24 View Post
And if I'm not comfortable with guns? If I have a problem with vision? The chances of me hurting someone in my household is just as great as stopping the actual intruder.

I would also say that my dogs wouldn't let anyone they didn't know do anything for 5-10 minutes. I'll be happy to PM my address if you'd like to test the theory.

It's asinine and ignorant to think that having a firearm in the house is the only answer.
Its not the only answer and I would rather people uncomfortable with firearms not have them, but for those who do, training is a necessity and I am glad the sheriff is advertising for those people.

I don't keep a firearm in my house here, but I also realize I would be at a big disadvantage in a break in.

We condition our dogs to not attack strangers, I have a pit bull back in Kansas and he would more likely lick the intruders face than actually bite him.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:11 AM   #37
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I think they should ban all guns and just require everyone to train as kung-fu masters.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:12 AM   #38
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I think they should ban all guns and just require everyone to train as kung-fu masters.
you jest i know, but somewhere on this forum there exists a thread where someone said something to that effect as a reply to one of my posts and they were 100% serious.

Last edited by glocke12; Jan 26, 2013 at 10:37 AM.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:22 AM   #39
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This is straight from the republican/libertarian play book. Eliminate public services to the point where every American is responsible for his/her own education, health, transportation and safety. This is exactly what Paul pere et fils want our country to become.
What's wrong with people being responsible for themselvesv
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:34 AM   #40
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What's wrong with people being responsible for themselvesv
More disingenuous ********. Where did he say that?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:38 AM   #41
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What's wrong with people being responsible for themselvesv
That question will be answered when you're responsible enough to read the entire thread - not just pick and choose things you can argue with.

It's been discussed.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 10:57 AM   #42
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sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
Oh, yay. This again. What is it about coming together as a society to do what we can for each other that you despise?

I get it, personal responsibility. But should that be the end-all, be-all of existence? It is simply not possible, in a country such as the US, for the people who work minimum wage jobs to afford education, healthcare, and full self-protection from any and all incidents. I make in the upper five digits, and last year six digits, and still have trouble affording healthcare for my family. My premiums alone are more than someone making minimum wage makes in a year.

If we were to accept full personal responsibility, and no government intervention (which, while that may not be your end-game, there are plenty of others who DO tow that line), you'd have massive backlash. All those people with non-living wage jobs suddenly having no access to anything because they simply can't afford it. Massive homelessness, widespread crime, disease, etc.

So, those people should work harder to get better jobs so that they can afford more. Okay, and the person who takes their place goes through the same thing, and the cycle repeats...endlessly. Unless there is a major revolution in this country, we will never, ever have all of our citizens working living-wage jobs. Even if everyone took full personal responsibility and got a doctorate degree, someone would still have to empty the trash can and sweep the floor, and I don't think they'd be making $50k to do it.

Trust me...I love me some personal responsibility. But I also see where societal needs should be met as well, for the good of everyone. I still find it reprehensible that the same people who support throwing hundreds of billions or more into war and defense decry every penny spent on actually helping citizens.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:02 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post
Good for him....More LEOs should encourage people to be proactive about their own defense.

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sigh...what is it about personal responsibility you despise?
Typical right wing response. Let's tax the citizens twice, once for the police and twice by requiring them to buy weapons, ammunition, alarms, guard dogs, and specialized training in dealing with paranoia in the exurbs. That way we can help all those poor 'small' business owners who trouble selling fear and paranoia to their customers.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:14 AM   #44
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More disingenuous ********. Where did he say that?
Right here:

Quote:
This is straight from the republican/libertarian play book. Eliminate public services to the point where every American is responsible for his/her own education, health, transportation and safety. This is exactly what Paul pere et fils want our country to become.
So either he's being sarcastic and doesn't want that to happen, hence doesn't want Americans to be responsible for themselves, or he does and he totally threw me off.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:21 AM   #45
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Here is the mission statement of the LAPD:
I shall restate whom do they serve?

"It is the mission of the Los Angeles Police Department to safeguard the lives and property of the people we serve, to reduce the incidence and fear of crime, and to enhance public safety while working with the diverse communities to improve their quality of life"

Can be taken many ways one of which is good.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:28 AM   #46
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i shall restate whom do they serve?

"it is the mission of the los angeles police department to safeguard the lives and property of the people we serve, to reduce the incidence and fear of crime, and to enhance public safety while working with the diverse communities to improve their quality of life"

can be taken many ways one of which is good.
1-877-ask-lapd
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 11:53 AM   #47
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And here we have more disingenuous bull ****. No one has said you shouldn't or can't own guns to protect your home.
Then why such an uproar over what this Sheriff had to say? Just because he makes the suggestion doesn't mean you have to go out and buy a gun. I hear commercials and announcements all the time and if I don't like what they are trying to suggest I just ignore them.

As far as services being cut that is something the taxpayers in the county will need to deal with if money is an issue. Maybe they need to raise taxes or cut administrative costs or maybe a combination of both. I don't know how the residents feel about this because I don't live there.

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That way we can help all those poor 'small' business owners who trouble selling fear and paranoia to their customers.
You continue to say that anyone who doesn't agree with you must be filled with "fear and paranoia" and to be honest that's so far from the truth it isn't even funny. I am a gun owner, however I only own a couple of rifles and have never carried a gun on me either concealed or open carry unless I am going to the ranch, range or hunting. I must be filled with "fear and paranoia" huh?
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:27 PM   #48
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I shall restate whom do they serve?

"It is the mission of the Los Angeles Police Department to safeguard the lives and property of the people we serve, to reduce the incidence and fear of crime, and to enhance public safety while working with the diverse communities to improve their quality of life"

Can be taken many ways one of which is good.
How else can that be taken?

Please provide at least one of those "many ways".
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 12:56 PM   #49
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How else can that be taken?

Please provide at least one of those "many ways".
"It is the mission of the Los Angeles Police Department to safeguard the lives and property of the people we serve (The elected officials and property of the city), to reduce the incidence and fear of crime(of the elected officials), and to enhance public safety (public safety is required for city business to happen) while working with the diverse communities (the elected official and city emp0lyees are diverse) to improve their quality of life (for the elected officials and city employees)"

Again the police have no obligation to serve the public nor the public's interest. The serve the interest of the city/countystate/Fed Gov. these people are their supervisors raters and paymasters.
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Old Jan 26, 2013, 01:12 PM   #50
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Really? Are we turning the country into Tombstone now?
I am wondering if the Milwaukee County Sheriffs Dept is suffering from executive overcompensation. Chances are they could afford two or three more deputies on the beat if he quits. If he really doesn't want this job, he should just quit.
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