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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:46 AM   #26
Squilly
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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
Well that's not true. Business doesn't need taxpayers to exist.
That's true. If taxes didn't exist, we as people would find other ways to fend for ourselves - like we always do/did.

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With all due respect, but that is the most stupid thing I've read in a while.

But I agree, democracy is not the perfect form of government, although I never heard anyone claim that - it is just the best, realistic compromise mankind came up with until now - and there were/are plenty of different ones. It also has to be controlled, checked, adjusted, defended at any time, since it is not a kind of 'perpetuum mobile' - once achieved and it will stay forever.
What's stupid about it? It's true...
I hear people saying it all the time.
http://soulpancake.com/conversations...and-taxes.html
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:48 AM   #27
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I could easily go into detail on that. Drive a nice car, sure I'd like that. Someone else causes a car crash. Outside barrier, coinciding with me.
Hmmm.

That's not really what I was getting at though.

You're talking about barriers and my point is we create more barriers by our behavior, thoughts and emotions than any "outside" condition can put before us.

Break down the barriers in your own mind.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:51 AM   #28
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Ya! A tax-thread!

Contemporay example: I'd actually prefer to pay more taxes and make it a public duty to clean the pavement, instead of every houseowner being responsible for the part in front of their houses. Now it is freezing cold here and I can hardly walk past some blocks, and I'm not even close to 60yo.

And yes, it's completely rubbish imho to reduce life onto death and taxes. But to each their own. I for one think of taxes as a sign of civilisation and welcome them. But mind, I'm from (continental) Europe.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:53 AM   #29
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That's true. If taxes didn't exist, we as people would find other ways to fend for ourselves - like we always do/did.
Please point to a time that "the people" were not taxed or required to give something of their labors.

I need an example.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:55 AM   #30
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Please point to a time that "the people" were not taxed or required to give something of their labors.

I need an example.
That's the point. Never.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:57 AM   #31
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That's the point. Never.
Yet you said, "like we always did."

So now "always" means "never"?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 09:57 AM   #32
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Well that's not true. Business doesn't need taxpayers to exist.
Not to exist, no. But to keep them honest? What do you think?

I for one like that fact that when I visit my doctor, he's properly licensed to practice medicine and not some quack medicine-man working in an unregulated industry.

I also like the fact that the house i own and the land that it sits on is registered in my name and can't simply be claimed by someone else. Without the local land-registry and local police force, I'd be too busy defending my property to have time for the the job that I enjoy.
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Last edited by Arran; Jan 27, 2013 at 03:21 PM. Reason: Didn't proofread.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:05 AM   #33
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That's the point. Never.
So how would this system work?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:09 AM   #34
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So how would this system work?
No taxes. I dunno, but we'd find another way.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:12 AM   #35
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No taxes. I dunno, but we'd find another way.
So you're advocating for a no taxes system and your implementation plan is I dunno and we'll find a way. I think you may be on to something here.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 10:32 AM   #36
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Location: A man of the people. The right sort of people.
Collectively we can have much more than we can as individuals. That's why we formed societies and why we pool our taxes.

You could draw up a tax free society, monetarily.

But you would sacrifice free choice absolutely. Everyone would be designated certain work, certain working hours and would do that work for free.

You'd hate it.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 01:59 PM   #37
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Well that's not true. Business doesn't need taxpayers to exist.
Who is going to buy their stuff, then?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:11 PM   #38
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Society isn't set in stone. Drifters and entrepreneurs change the rules daily. It's up to you to decide whether to apply to Walmart and live a "normal," unfulfilling life or reach for more.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:18 PM   #39
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It's up to you to decide whether to apply to Walmart and live a "normal," unfulfilling life or reach for more.
Let's see ... earlier the OP stated ...

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Originally Posted by Squilly View Post
Drive a nice car, sure I'd like that.
So I don't get the impression he's interested in (as you imply) reaching for more.

I believe the gist of his complaint is, I want more stuff. Who do I get to blame for not having it?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 04:40 PM   #40
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Population = systematic way of living.

Want total freedom? Live off the land at least 20 miles away from everyone.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:00 PM   #41
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Who is going to buy their stuff, then?
People. You can be a person and not be a taxpayer

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Originally Posted by Arran View Post
Not to exist, no. But to keep them honest? What do you think?

I for one like that fact that when I visit my doctor, he's properly licensed to practice medicine and not some quack medicine-man working in an unregulated industry.

I also like the fact that the house i own and the land that it sits on is registered in my name and can't simply be claimed by someone else. Without the local land-registry and local police force, I'd be too busy defending my property to have time for the the job that I enjoy.
Well it's not like the government necessarily "keeps them honest". You hear about crooked docs on the news pretty frequently.

People will regulate each other, not necessarily needing the government to do so.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:01 PM   #42
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People. You can be a person and not be a taxpayer
Not if you want any public services, you can't.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:36 PM   #43
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Not if you want any public services, you can't.
Oh, so you're saying that all those people that are NOT paying taxes do NOT want and use public services ?

Now I'm confused...

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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:41 PM   #44
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Oh, so you're saying that all those people that are NOT paying taxes do NOT want and use public services ?

Now I'm confused...

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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:42 PM   #45
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Not if you want any public services, you can't.
That's not what we were talking about
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 06:54 PM   #46
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Society isn't set in stone. Drifters and entrepreneurs change the rules daily. It's up to you to decide whether to apply to Walmart and live a "normal," unfulfilling life or reach for more.
Why is someone who works at Walmart necessarily leading an unfulfilling life? What fulfills someone is as individual as music taste. Or are you suggesting that unless you go out every day and push the boundaries and increase your wealth, that you are unfulfilled?
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 07:15 PM   #47
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Why is someone who works at Walmart necessarily leading an unfulfilling life? What fulfills someone is as individual as music taste. Or are you suggesting that unless you go out every day and push the boundaries and increase your wealth, that you are unfulfilled?
Considering his username I don't think it's wealth he's talking about expanding.
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Old Jan 27, 2013, 11:01 PM   #48
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Considering his username I don't think it's wealth he's talking about expanding.
Ha. Ha. For your information, I've had this username since I was seven so it's more of a nostalgic reason for my retaining it. Although yes, I was referring to wealth and self-purpose. What's fulfilling in the grand scheme is having a bigger purpose than making the gears spin, so to speak, in retail. Still, a person can feel personally wholly fulfilled enough so with a family, or as was said music.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 09:17 AM   #49
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Oh, so you're saying that all those people that are NOT paying taxes do NOT want and use public services ?

Now I'm confused...

-t
If taxes do not get paid, government services do not get provided. It's not very complicated.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 11:18 AM   #50
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That's true. If taxes didn't exist, we as people would find other ways to fend for ourselves - like we always do/did.
Even when we did 'fend for ourselves' I suspect young and fit prehistoric men grumbled about the excessive amounts of mammoth and horse meat that was taken from them when they got back to camp to feed the shaman, the old, the kids and all the women.

Even then I suspect you paid into a common pot to get services or get serviced We're just a much bigger tribe now.
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