DC Politics As Usual

[Huntn]

Maybe someone can tell me there is not some kind of outrage regarding this BS? You've got both Republicans and a Democrat involved. Money talks, BS walks, er, I mean is welcomed!

BillMoyers.com: Amgen's Sweet Senate Deal

U.S. Rep. Peter Welch on Amgen’s Sweet Senate Deal
January 25, 2013

A recent article in The New York Times reported on a cost-control exception provided to Amgen, the world’s largest biotechnology firm. According to the report, the sweetheart deal — hidden in the Senate’s final “fiscal cliff” bill — will cost taxpayers half a billion dollars. Bill talks to U.S. Representative Peter Welch (D-VT) about the bi-partisan bill he recently sponsored to repeal that giveaway, and the political factors that allow such crony capitalism to occur.

“When there is this back room dealing that comes at enormous expense to taxpayers and enormous benefit to a private, well-connected, for-profit company, we’ve got to call it out,” Welch tells Bill. “Those members of Congress who are concerned about the institution, about our lack of credibility, about the necessity of us doing things that are in the public good as opposed to private gain, we’ve got to call it out.”

... Just a couple of days before the inaugural festivities, The New York Times published some superb investigative reporting by the team of Eric Lipton and Kevin Sack, and their revelations kept running through my mind. The story told us of a pharmaceutical giant, Amgen, and three senators so close to it they might be entries on its balance sheet: Republican Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Senate Finance Committee Chair Max Baucus – a Democrat -- and that powerful committee’s ranking Republican, Orrin Hatch. A trio of perpetrators who treat the United States Treasury as if it were a cash-and-carry annex of corporate America.

The Times story described how Amgen got a huge hidden gift from unnamed members of Congress and their staffers. They slipped an eleventh hour loophole into the New Year’s Eve deal that kept the government from going over the fiscal cliff. And when the sun rose in the morning there it was, a richly embroidered loophole for Amgen that will cost taxpayers -- that's you and me -- a cool half a billion dollars. Yes -- half a billion dollars.

[rdowns]

A trio of perpetrators who treat the United States Treasury as if it were a cash-and-carry annex of corporate America.

If only they were the only trio. This crap goes on with virtually every major bill passed yet they want to cut grandma's Medicare before reforming the legal bribery our tax system is.

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by rdowns

If only they were the only trio. This crap goes on with virtually every major bill passed yet they want to cut grandma's Medicare before reforming the legal bribery our tax system is.

Would it be fair to call the System corrupt? Most of the time I am defending Democrats because I currently view the Republicans as ultimately corrupt and bad for the country. But I know Democrats are FAR from perfect.

My impression is that most/all of our politicians go to DC and get immersed in the sewer, loosing much/most/all of the integrity they once had. I believe in compromise, but there should be no efforts to give sweet deals to huge multinational corporations at taxpayer expense and it should not be condoned by the taxpayers. There should be an uproar! And we can't afford it, especially now!

[rdowns]

I'd call a system where you can write tax code for the people who finance your elections corrupt.

[Huntn]

How the heck do we fix this? Something like a Tea Party type organization might be the answer, although I don't support the TP.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by Huntn

How the heck do we fix this? Something like a Tea Party type organization might be the answer, although I don't support the TP.

First, I'd rewrite our tax code. Lower rates, next to no deductions. If lobbyists can't fight for tax loopholes then they have little reason to spend all that money. Second, I would prohibit any Rep. or Senator from serving on a committee longer than 2 terms and bar them from taking money from any organization or company that is covered by any of their committee assignments.

For example, if you're on the education committee, you would be prohibited from taking money from the organizations like UFT or others whose business is related to education.

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by rdowns

First, I'd rewrite our tax code. Lower rates, next to no deductions. If lobbyists can't fight for tax loopholes then they have little reason to spend all that money. Second, I would prohibit any Rep. or Senator from serving on a committee longer than 2 terms and bar them from taking money from any organization or company that is covered by any of their committee assignments.

For example, if you're on the education committee, you would be prohibited from taking money from the organizations like UFT or others whose business is related to education.

I don't agree with blanket tax rate reductions because we have bills to pay. Yes bills due to government programs but also bills due to incessant tax cutting that has all ready taken place that exacerbated, accelerated our fiscal problems. The GOP has not been honest in it's approach because lowering tax rates did just that, make our problems worse, not their stated goal of making the economy grow rapidly creating income by volume but at a lower rate. We all know the plan is to cause a fiscal crisis as a means of eliminating those pesky social programs the GOP hates. Our taxes are all ready at historically (recent history) low rates.

I do agree that the tax code must be simplified, and lobbying should be outlawed, and that players in Washington must not be allowed to solidify their positions in government for their own personal well being.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by Huntn

I don't agree with blanket tax rate reductions because we have bills to pay. Yes bills due to government programs but also bills due to incessant tax cutting that has all ready taken place that exacerbated, accelerated our fiscal problems. The GOP has not been honest in it's approach because lowering tax rates did just that, make our problems worse, not their stated goal of making the economy grow rapidly creating income by volume but at a lower rate. We all know the plan is to cause a fiscal crisis as a means of eliminating those pesky social programs the GOP hates. Our taxes are all ready at historically (recent history) low rates.

I do agree that the tax code must be simplified, and lobbying should be outlawed, and that players in Washington must not be allowed to solidify their positions in government for their own personal well being.

If we get rid of the vast majority of the ridiculous deductions, loopholes and credits, we could easily lower corporate tax rates. We hear about how high our 35% corporate tax rate is but that's ********. The effective rate paid in 2011 was 12.1% and corporate profits are at a 60 year high. The effective rate paid from 1987-2006 was 25.6%.

[danpass]

Repealing the 16th Amendment, performing a wholesale wipeout of the entire current tax system, essentially a financial enema and replacing that entire ponzi scheme of taxation, replacing it all with HR25, The Fair Tax would be a significantly positive step in the right direction.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by danpass

Repealing the 16th Amendment, performing a wholesale wipeout of the entire current tax system, essentially a financial enema and replacing that entire ponzi scheme of taxation, replacing it all with HR25, The Fair Tax would be a significantly positive step in the right direction.

Fair tax is anything but fair. We have proven that time and time again. The so called "fair tax" only helps put the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

[GermanyChris]

The fix:

1) Corporations loose their first amendment rights a corporation is not a political person.
2) Fixed dollar amount for elections revisited every 4 years.
3) Term limits Senator is not a career option
4) Universal single payer health care
5) Balanced budget amendment with exceptions for national emergencies and war.
6) No program is over x percentage of the budget with exception of war and national emergencies.
7) Public debt must first be offered to the public (American Public)
8) There will be no war without a complete plan number of troops, mission, occupation, exit.
9) congressional districts will be set on a common sense geographical basis.
10) education standards will be set at the federal level with implementation decided at the state level.
11) Federally funded universities will discounted degrees in fields the state is deficient in.
12) All states will offer a high school alternative for students who cannot/will not succeed at collegiate studies. This alternative will be funded at the same level as traditional High Schools.
13) Right-to-Work will be eliminated
14) All labor is contract based, after a term of employment employers cannot fire at will, not cut with business based decisions. If an employer must cut it's workforce it will do so through buy outs based on performance first, tenure second. but will not be lower than 70 percent of the persons salary for a minimum of 5 years.
15) Money earned overseas will be claimed as money earned domestically and will be taxed as such both federally and locally. If no overseas income is claimed, and the company is international the IRS will estimate overseas earnings and tax based on those estimates.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

Fair tax is anything but fair. We have proven that time and time again. The so called "fair tax" only helps put the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

If you want a fair tax let us decide what the government can spend it's money on, not the government tell us after they spend it.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by MacNut

If you want a fair tax let us decide what the government can spend it's money on, not the government tell us after they spend it.

I would like to point out in theory we do that now.

The in theory part is our elected officals but that a long since change since we have our gerrymandered districts and everything more being controlled by the campaign financing (aka bribery) and back room deals that has long made our representatives not behold to their voters.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

I would like to point out in theory we do that now.

The in theory part is our elected officals but that a long since change since we have our gerrymandered districts and everything more being controlled by the campaign financing (aka bribery) and back room deals that has long made our representatives not behold to their voters.

Budgets should not be set until they get the money in their hands, If you ever bought everything first and then hoped you had the money to cover it you would be screwed. That is what the government does. They spent trillions of dollars and then hope the tax payer can pay for it.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by MacNut

Budgets should not be set until they get the money in their hands, If you ever bought everything first and then hoped you had the money to cover it you would be screwed. That is what the government does. They spent trillions of dollars and then hope the tax payer can pay for it.

you can make budgets off projected incomes. Case and point we all do it all the time. We do not make our year budget with out having a good idea what our income will be for the year.

Now we know what we are going to have coming in or a good idea for it so we account for it.

I know roughly what my monthly income will be so I can plan and budget stuff out months in advanced based on that assumption.

[MacNut]

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

you can make budgets off projected incomes. Case and point we all do it all the time. We do not make our year budget with out having a good idea what our income will be for the year.

Now we know what we are going to have coming in or a good idea for it so we account for it.

I know roughly what my monthly income will be so I can plan and budget stuff out months in advanced based on that assumption.

The problem is the federal government hasn't approved a budget in 4 years, yet they keep spending.

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by MacNut

The problem is the federal government hasn't approved a budget in 4 years, yet they keep spending.

well that part is a completely different can of worms and more a problem with the grid lock between the 2 parties. I honestly wish Obama would refuse to sign any more extentions and shut the entire damn thing down. Force them to pass something and lets face it grid lock is the problem. Make them agree on something instead of kicking the can down the road.

[Huntn]

Originally Posted by GermanyChris

The fix:

1) Corporations loose their first amendment rights a corporation is not a political person.
2) Fixed dollar amount for elections revisited every 4 years.
3) Term limits Senator is not a career option
4) Universal single payer health care
5) Balanced budget amendment with exceptions for national emergencies and war.
6) No program is over x percentage of the budget with exception of war and national emergencies.
7) Public debt must first be offered to the public (American Public)
8) There will be no war without a complete plan number of troops, mission, occupation, exit.
9) congressional districts will be set on a common sense geographical basis.
10) education standards will be set at the federal level with implementation decided at the state level.
11) Federally funded universities will discounted degrees in fields the state is deficient in.
12) All states will offer a high school alternative for students who cannot/will not succeed at collegiate studies. This alternative will be funded at the same level as traditional High Schools.
13) Right-to-Work will be eliminated
14) All labor is contract based, after a term of employment employers cannot fire at will, not cut with business based decisions. If an employer must cut it's workforce it will do so through buy outs based on performance first, tenure second. but will not be lower than 70 percent of the persons salary for a minimum of 5 years.
15) Money earned overseas will be claimed as money earned domestically and will be taxed as such both federally and locally. If no overseas income is claimed, and the company is international the IRS will estimate overseas earnings and tax based on those estimates.

I like most of your list. No. 13 & 14 would have to be clarified. I support collective bargaining if 14 is a means of dealing with 13. Collective bargaining gives the employee a say versus all decisions made at the whim of the employer.

[thewitt]

Originally Posted by Rodimus Prime

Fair tax is anything but fair. We have proven that time and time again. The so called "fair tax" only helps put the rich at the expense of the rest of us.

Where do to get this talking point crap. Do you have any idea who actually pays the taxes in the US?

----------

Originally Posted by GermanyChris

The fix:

1) Corporations loose their first amendment rights a corporation is not a political person.
2) Fixed dollar amount for elections revisited every 4 years.
3) Term limits Senator is not a career option
4) Universal single payer health care
5) Balanced budget amendment with exceptions for national emergencies and war.
6) No program is over x percentage of the budget with exception of war and national emergencies.
7) Public debt must first be offered to the public (American Public)
8) There will be no war without a complete plan number of troops, mission, occupation, exit.
9) congressional districts will be set on a common sense geographical basis.
10) education standards will be set at the federal level with implementation decided at the state level.
11) Federally funded universities will discounted degrees in fields the state is deficient in.
12) All states will offer a high school alternative for students who cannot/will not succeed at collegiate studies. This alternative will be funded at the same level as traditional High Schools.
13) Right-to-Work will be eliminated
14) All labor is contract based, after a term of employment employers cannot fire at will, not cut with business based decisions. If an employer must cut it's workforce it will do so through buy outs based on performance first, tenure second. but will not be lower than 70 percent of the persons salary for a minimum of 5 years.
15) Money earned overseas will be claimed as money earned domestically and will be taxed as such both federally and locally. If no overseas income is claimed, and the company is international the IRS will estimate overseas earnings and tax based on those estimates.

Never happen in America. Maybe in Cuba post Castro, but not in America.

[Eraserhead]

^^ Do you really believe the rich should pay less tax as a percentage of their income than the poor?

[skunk]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Where do to get this talking point crap. Do you have any idea who actually pays the taxes in the US?

Well, it's not the wealthy individuals or corporations, because they know how to avoid it by using tax shelters, loopholes and write-offs. Who's left?

[Rodimus Prime]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Where do to get this talking point crap. Do you have any idea who actually pays the taxes in the US?[COLOR="#808080"]

Tell me how what is basicly a sales tax is not regressive? Oh wait it is very regressive...

[mcrain]

Originally Posted by thewitt

Where do to get this talking point crap. Do you have any idea who actually pays the taxes in the US?

Do you?