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Old Jan 30, 2013, 07:23 AM   #1
niuniu
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Benfits storm kicks off - 17k a year couple don't fancy working

Gormless young couple get lured onto the TV to defend their lifestyle. They take in over 17k a year (27,000 dollars) in benefits and say they don't want to work because they'd have a smaller income.

Perfectly logical assessment of the situation from their point of view, I'm sure. But saying it on the TV wasn't so wise. Over the press and radio at the moment, with fuming tax-payers cursing them to hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smx9i3GMLIQ
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:31 AM   #2
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Gormless young couple get lured onto the TV to defend their lifestyle. They take in over 17k a year (27,000 dollars) in benefits and say they don't want to work because they'd have a smaller income.
The clip's a little too short to adequately explain the situation.

What benefits are they receiving?

Is he fit physically and mentally?

Is there any oversight in the system intended to prevent that kind of misuse of benefits?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:38 AM   #3
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The clip's a little too short to adequately explain the situation.

What benefits are they receiving?

Is he fit physically and mentally?

Is there any oversight in the system intended to prevent that kind of misuse of benefits?
Yeah there's not a better clip up yet. The situation is like this..

They're both healthy and fit, 21 and 20 years old, and have a child. The guy had a job as a shelf stacker in a supermarket, but packed it in as benefits were better that the minimum wage he was getting. His defense is that his dad made 65k a year and paid a lot of tax, so it's their right to live off benefits.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:44 AM   #4
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They're both healthy and fit, 21 and 20 years old, and have a child. The guy had a job as a shelf stacker in a supermarket, but packed it in as benefits were better that the minimum wage he was getting. His defense is that his dad made 65k a year and paid a lot of tax, so it's their right to live off benefits.
What benefits are they being provided?

Do the benefits have a cut-off point or are they given out to anybody who asks for as long as they want them?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:50 AM   #5
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What benefits are they being provided?

Do the benefits have a cut-off point or are they given out to anybody who asks for as long as they want them?
No that's the thing, we don't have a cut-off here. You can apply for everything and if you get it all, then you get it all as long as you meet the requirements.

I don't know how you get that much, but I'm guessing Housing Benefit, Child Benefit, Jobseeker's Allowance and whatever else is going around.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:54 AM   #6
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Yeah there's not a better clip up yet. The situation is like this..

They're both healthy and fit, 21 and 20 years old, and have a child. The guy had a job as a shelf stacker in a supermarket, but packed it in as benefits were better that the minimum wage he was getting. His defense is that his dad made 65k a year and paid a lot of tax, so it's their right to live off benefits.
I don't think society can expect to function and pay for healthy individuals who feel it's their right to be slackers. However, we have to examine the system that gave them the benefits. Don't get me wrong. I'm for benefits (social safety net) when they are needed, but ultimately society has to stay on a budget, something it does not have a good track record of doing.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by niuniu View Post
Gormless young couple get lured onto the TV to defend their lifestyle. They take in over 17k a year (27,000 dollars) in benefits and say they don't want to work because they'd have a smaller income.

Perfectly logical assessment of the situation from their point of view, I'm sure. But saying it on the TV wasn't so wise. Over the press and radio at the moment, with fuming tax-payers cursing them to hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smx9i3GMLIQ
This should be shown on Romanian and Bulgarian TV. after all we've got to unload them before you vote to leave the EU.

On a more serious note I think this does show that benefits have become a way of life in certain parts of Europe.

On a side note I had to look up Gormless, thanks to this site my English is slowly getting better.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:19 AM   #8
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This should be shown on Romanian and Bulgarian TV. after all we've got to unload them before you vote to leave the EU.

On a more serious note I think this does show that benefits have become a way of life in certain parts of Europe.

On a side note I had to look up Gormless, thanks to this site my English is slowly getting better.
I think it is very important to remember that people like this make up a very small percentage of people on benefits.

On the other hand if the rich were taxed at ~96% like some people coming off benefits the whining about how they weren't going to work anymore would be unbearable.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:35 AM   #9
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I think it is very important to remember that people like this make up a very small percentage of people on benefits.

On the other hand if the rich were taxed at ~96% like some people coming off benefits the whining about how they weren't going to work anymore would be unbearable.
yeah I know if I was giving several million dollars I would still go to work because I enjoy what i do.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 10:58 AM   #10
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I think it is very important to remember that people like this make up a very small percentage of people on benefits.

On the other hand if the rich were taxed at ~96% like some people coming off benefits the whining about how they weren't going to work anymore would be unbearable.
Of course, but what had been planned as a temporary pick me up for between jobs, has become a way of life by choice for some people, in western Europe.

If the credit crisis has any up side this is it, all over western Europe the benefit systems have been re-examined.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 11:28 AM   #11
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Of course, but what had been planned as a temporary pick me up for between jobs, has become a way of life by choice for some people, in western Europe.

If the credit crisis has any up side this is it, all over western Europe the benefit systems have been re-examined.

They do.

But first we need to get stuck into those who get rich from the poor and don't put the taxes back into the system. The financial industry, for all the storm around it, has come out relatively unscathed too. The UK has failed to legislate and prosecute proportionately, and it's clear now they can't - our real government is actually London Corp.

The Tories are playing a clever hand, divide and conquer. Benefits scroungers and foreigners are ruining Britain.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:10 PM   #12
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I think it is very important to remember that people like this make up a very small percentage of people on benefits.

On the other hand if the rich were taxed at ~96% like some people coming off benefits the whining about how they weren't going to work anymore would be unbearable.
Nobody is taxed a 96%. Are you saying it "seems" like 96% because they only make marginally more money? Comparing them to someone who ahs worked their entire life and is making a lot of money now is not really a good comparison.

This happens a lot more than you may think, I know of several myself.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:25 PM   #13
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Nobody is taxed a 96%. Are you saying it "seems" like 96% because they only make marginally more money? Comparing them to someone who ahs worked their entire life and is making a lot of money now is not really a good comparison.

This happens a lot more than you may think, I know of several myself.
It's 96% "effectively" because it includes the reduction of benefits once you get a job.

And this isn't a figure made up by the socialist worker - it's something I've seen in the Economist.

I really don't see how it is acceptable to tax the poor at 96% and then see the media and the rich complain bitterly at being taxed at 50%.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 12:54 PM   #14
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Of course, but what had been planned as a temporary pick me up for between jobs, has become a way of life by choice for some people, in Western Europe.
Obviously there are some cases (such as this one) but do you have a source for the number being substantial?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:06 PM   #15
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Obviously there are some cases (such as this one) but do you have a source for the number being substantial?
I'd imagine the workers who fight this type of fraud have been laid off due to austerity.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:20 PM   #16
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Gormless young couple get lured onto the TV to defend their lifestyle. They take in over 17k a year (27,000 dollars) in benefits and say they don't want to work because they'd have a smaller income.

Perfectly logical assessment of the situation from their point of view, I'm sure. But saying it on the TV wasn't so wise. Over the press and radio at the moment, with fuming tax-payers cursing them to hell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smx9i3GMLIQ
There was a whole special on this on Bild, lets just say the German government wasn't exactly pleased. Don't ever come between a German and their money!
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 01:34 PM   #17
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Fortunately there are very few people like this around, so I wouldn't stereotype all people on benefits like some on the right want to do and say we should cut safety nets because of people like this. However If you're going to take the time to go on TV like these people do and specifically say that you don't want to work since you can get benefits I wouldn't mind those people having their benefits pulled since they are basically defrauding the government.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:53 PM   #18
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I don't think society can expect to function and pay for healthy individuals who feel it's their right to be slackers. However, we have to examine the system that gave them the benefits. Don't get me wrong. I'm for benefits (social safety net) when they are needed, but ultimately society has to stay on a budget, something it does not have a good track record of doing.
Examine the system and figure out why you can make more money not working and receiving government benefits than you can working an honest job and earning minimum wage.


Until you fix the system to where people can work a minimum wage job and actually make a living wage instead of working for such a low wage that it's borderline slave labor this kind of thing will keep on happening.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 02:59 PM   #19
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I'd imagine the workers who fight this type of fraud have been laid off due to austerity.
To be honest as far as I am aware in comparison to aggressive tax evasion the money involved is trivial.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Examine the system and figure out why you can make more money not working and receiving government benefits than you can working an honest job and earning minimum wage.


Until you fix the system to where people can work a minimum wage job and actually make a living wage instead of working for such a low wage that it's borderline slave labor this kind of thing will keep on happening.
True
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:00 PM   #20
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To be honest as far as I am aware in comparison to aggressive tax evasion the money involved is trivial.

----------



True
Yeah, you can't compare tax evasion and benefit fraud/abuse. Tax evasion is clearly where the government should be putting their efforts, but public perception of benefit fraud is greatly skewed so the government play into it...

http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/63...evasion-in-uk/
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:01 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
I think it is very important to remember that people like this make up a very small percentage of people on benefits.

On the other hand if the rich were taxed at ~96% like some people coming off benefits the whining about how they weren't going to work anymore would be unbearable.
I know far too many people from where I grew up who take their time finding jobs because it pays better to not work, and wayyy too many girls who got knocked up, and then kept doing it because "the government pays them".

Like someone else said, I'm all for a safety net, but it needs to go to people who need it, not people who are lazy.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 03:20 PM   #22
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The problem is not welfare. And the solution certainly is not cutting welfare. Conservatives generally attack this problem from the side of, "Benefits are too high!", rather than the root cause of this issue: private sector pay is too low.

Private sector pay has been stagnant since ~1982, whereas welfare generally rises each year with inflation. Through a combination of corporate greed and the market's fixation on constantly increasing growth (which isn't sustainable) we have ended up in a situation where more and more private employees are being paid relatively less and less each year. At the same time, corporate profit growth continues each year because the market expects it to do so.

Not forgetting that most of our MP's are owned and bought by corporations and their commercial interests, so of course they will attack welfare rather than private sector pay.
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:05 PM   #23
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The problem is not welfare. And the solution certainly is not cutting welfare. Conservatives generally attack this problem from the side of, "Benefits are too high!", rather than the root cause of this issue: private sector pay is too low.

Private sector pay has been stagnant since ~1982, whereas welfare generally rises each year with inflation. Through a combination of corporate greed and the market's fixation on constantly increasing growth (which isn't sustainable) we have ended up in a situation where more and more private employees are being paid relatively less and less each year. At the same time, corporate profit growth continues each year because the market expects it to do so.

Not forgetting that most of our MP's are owned and bought by corporations and their commercial interests, so of course they will attack welfare rather than private sector pay.
Well said!
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 04:07 PM   #24
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I know far too many people from where I grew up who take their time finding jobs because it pays better to not work, and wayyy too many girls who got knocked up, and then kept doing it because "the government pays them".

Like someone else said, I'm all for a safety net, but it needs to go to people who need it, not people who are lazy.
And how much does this cost the government every year?
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Old Jan 30, 2013, 08:44 PM   #25
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Yeah, this kind of thing needs to be really nipped in the bud.

But then I look at the other side of the coin (this is from the US...I know the OP is about the UK). Up until about a year ago, my wife worked a freelance job, mostly with me, making anywhere from $40-$55k a year. Part way during her pregnancy, she had to stop working, just because of the type of work we do. She didn't claim unemployment because she planned to go back to work doing something else as soon as she could after the baby was born. Well, that hasn't happened. She's applied to dozens of things, but nothing has happened. So she finally applied for unemployment benefits about six weeks ago because the money ran out. Because she hadn't worked in almost a year, and because of the way her pay was structured before, she didn't qualify. And to even apply, it was something like she had to go to each state we had worked in to claim it from their coffers.

It's not the easy money some make it out to be.
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