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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:36 PM   #126
Rogifan
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What exactly is this data based on? Has Samsung released shipped or sold tablet data? If not where is IDC getting its numbers from? Surveys? How accurate is that?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:43 PM   #127
BC2009
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Originally Posted by Snowshiro View Post
These are WORLDWIDE sales figures. Trying thinking outside of the USA for a change. Do you have any idea how strong Samsung is in east Asia, particularly in their home market of South Korea which accounts for a significant proportion of their worldwide figures? America does not equal the world (even though this is hard for a few egocentric Americans to understand). What you saw at Disneyland means nothing.
Your comment is hardly worth a reply, but let me help you understand.... Unless Samsung has some inexpensive tablet that they are selling in east Asia the populous in those countries that would be affluent enough to afford a Samsung tablet is not enough to drive these kind of numbers. Further, the people I saw at Disneyland who had Apple devices were actually from.... wait for it.... other countries. Nexus 7 would be a very good option for east Asia because of the pricing. Your hand-waving and supposed knowledge of how the rest of the world loves Samsung is ignorant and annoying. Incidentally, Asus makes the Nexus 7 and they are headquartered in Taiwan and have offices in like 30+ countries. Its hardly like they are only selling to people in the USA. Only Amazon is lacking in international focus among these companies.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrswizzle View Post
You're fogetting (as I did) that Samsung also makes the Nexus 10 now....

I'd venture a guess that the Nexus 10 and Note 10.1 are probably the tablets that propelled Samsung's sales.
I did not forget. The Note 10.1 got trashed by every reviewer out there (even Android fan websites). I don't see that driving any sales. And the Nexus 10 has hardly had any buzz about it since the first round of "meh" reviews. Neither of these tablet has received the level of buzz and acclaim as the Nexus 7 which is made by Asus.

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Originally Posted by winston1236 View Post
Why bother with facts when we can count on your trip to disneyland to tell us what the most popular devices are...
Exactly my point! These are not facts. They make about as much sense as my trip to Disneyland. Samsung has NOT announced factual numbers for tablet sales. IDC is licking their finger, sticking it in the air and trying to measure windspeed. Just about every forum user on every tech website that likes Android has touted and hailed the Nexus 7 as "awesome". People barely mention the Galaxy Tab. Heck they barely even mention the Nexus 10. The Nexus 7 is a combo of price and function that has tons of people buzzing about it. Also, keep in mind that the last time Samsung announced tablet sales it turned out that were fudging the numbers. They don't announce them anymore because it is easier to let IDC get it wrong. Ask yourself how many Galaxy Tabs you have seen compared to Nexus 7's in people's hands.

But since you obviously struggle with the definition of "fact", so go have a read of this article from CNN Money / Fortune:
http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/01/...ket-share-idc/

Quote:
IDC on Wednesday released preliminary data from its survey of worldwide tablet sales in the big holiday quarter, and the only thing in the data that we can be sure about is that sales of Apple's iPad grew 48.1% year over year -- from 15.1 million to 22.9 million. We and IDC know this because Apple (AAPL) reported those unit sales figures last week.

The rest of IDC's report is almost entirely guesswork. It says that Samsung shipped 7.9 million tablets -- up 263% -- but doesn't say how it got those numbers.....

As for the rest of IDC's findings, they just get more bizarre. The press release says Barnes & Noble (BKS) "gained traction" in the tablet market, but the spreadsheet shows Nook sales falling year over year. Even more startling, the release says Asus lost share, while the spreadsheet shows Asus' market share nearly tripling on sales that grew 402.5%.
....

Last edited by BC2009; Jan 31, 2013 at 05:59 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:46 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
What exactly is this data based on? Has Samsung released shipped or sold tablet data? If not where is IDC getting its numbers from? Surveys? How accurate is that?
How many times should we go over this? Samsung does not have "sold" data. They do not sell them (in retail sense). Nobody has exact sold data. This is also true for Apple because they do not have exact data on sold tablets from WalMart, BestBuy, Staples etc. IDC and Gartner are the two most trusted sources for this type of data. So live with this. In just three years iPad, Apple's tablet market share fell from 100% to 80% and now to 40%. There is little doubt that it will be at 20+% in a year just like this happened with iPhone.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:47 PM   #129
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Tim Cook is doing the same thing the interregnum between the two appearances of Steve Jobs did. He has expanded the number of products that Apple has in motion to an absurd level.

There are too many versions of the iPad, iPhone, iMac, MacBooks, etc, and all the while Apple craps on their pro users by killing the Apple server and now the Mac Pro in Europe... Oh, and the inconsistencies of the various devices and their GUI implementation, and the change away from the old dock standard stranding users with inconsistent support and compatibility.

Too bad Steve can't make a third coming to save his company, and ours (again)...

Steve came back and took a long hard look at what Apple was doing and killed probably half the product line, if not more. Apple Computer Inc. took huge losses to clean up the mess, and then came the iPod... If not for both Steve and the iPod, Apple would probably be a division of Sony, or Packard-Bell, and we all know what happened to them...

Oh gawd, don't even get me started on the whole Best Try/Wally World/any crappy store kiosk idea (inept sales people knowledgeable in Windows trying to sell macs?)...

You can't poison your brand, and expect to survive...

As a side issue, how far can Apple hope to get people to buy a new iPhone every year, when the carriers don't allow it 'in contract' and they have just about reached saturation... Are there that many new markets to push into to keep the bloated Apple still selling? I wonder...

EDIT: But I could be wrong... I just wonder how long it can go on...

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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:49 PM   #130
BC2009
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Originally Posted by AaronEdwards View Post
Did you notice that this are worldwide tablet shipments? What you see or not see is, even if you travel around a lot, worthless. (If you travel around a lot it would still only be anecdotal evidence, thus still worthless.)
Yes I realize these are worldwide tablet shipments. Do you think the Nexus 7 with its incredibly low price is only sold in the USA? Do you think it was only people in the USA who got excited about the Nexus 7? Asus is based in Taiwan and they have a presence in over 30 countries. They are building this tablet and selling it with Google all over the world. They were selling them at a rate over a million per month several months ago. Is their any reason to believe that would not have increased for the holiday season?

You're right... my assessment is about as worthless as IDC's assessment. But that was my point. Anybody can throw numbers out. Samsung is not announcing quarterly unit sales, so why is IDC making the number up? IDC's report is nothing more than their best guess. When was the last time you saw an analyst be wrong? You don't have to go very far back in your memory to figure that out. Any company that reports actual numbers shows just how wrong analysts can be every quarter.

Even the folks at CNN Money / Fortune seem to agree with me that IDC is pulling numbers out of their butts: http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2013/01/...ket-share-idc/

They even point out where the report is internally inconsistent.

Last edited by BC2009; Jan 31, 2013 at 06:00 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:49 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
How many times should we go over this? Samsung does not have "sold" data. They do not sell them (in retail sense). Nobody has exact sold data. This is also true for Apple because they do not have exact data on sold tablets from WalMart, BestBuy, Staples etc. IDC and Gartner are the two most trusted sources for this type of data. So live with this. In just three years iPad, Apple's tablet market share fell from 100% to 80% and now to 40%. There is little doubt that it will be at 20+% in a year just like this happened with iPhone.
Sorry I don't have to live with anything. You still haven't told me where they get their data from. Even if a company doesn't have true sold data, they would have shipped. Has Samsung or Amazon released shipped figures for tablets? Ever quarter Apple releases figures. Where are Samsung, Amazon and Asus's figures? You can't tell me they don't know how many tablets they sold directly or shipped to resellers.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:54 PM   #132
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This is to be expected. Most of the tablet industry is simply taking advantage of something Apple made popular . Just like they did with the iPhone . If Apple doesn't realize this they need a new board member with common sense.

I look forward to the next great thing that Apple will be at the forefront on.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:55 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
There is little doubt that it will be at 20+% in a year just like this happened with iPhone.
If history is any indication, they'll ship more units this year and next than they have last year and the years before, and they'll do it with profit margin (unlike the more price-oriented manufacturers, which will all make less money than they didn't make this year).

Market share and flaccid are life's two biggest lies.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:56 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
Exactly my point! These are not facts. They make about as much sense as my trip to Disneyland. Samsung has NOT announced factual numbers for tablet sales. IDC is licking their finger, sticking it in the air and trying to measure windspeed. Just about every forum user on every tech website that likes Android has touted and hailed the Nexus 7 as "awesome". People barely mention the Galaxy Tab. Heck they barely even mention the Nexus 10. The Nexus 7 is a combo of price and function that has tons of people buzzing about it. Also, keep in mind that the last time Samsung announced tablet sales it turned out that were fudging the numbers. They don't announce them anymore because it is easier to let IDC get it wrong. Ask yourself how many Galaxy Tabs you have seen compared to Nexus 7's in people's hands.
This is my point too. Forget about shipped vs sold, where are places like IDC and Gartner getting their figures from? Who, besides Apple is disclosing figures? Certainly not Amazon. And Samsung has thrown out shipped figures of their Galaxy smartphones but I've never seen any tablet figures from them. If these companies really are taking all this market share from Apple wouldn't they want to release sales figures to gloat about it?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:10 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Image


So most people now decide that none of the various iPads are the best choice for them.

Somehow, I don't think that the Hedge Funds have much to worry about. Apple is a scrappy little underdog. They will survive.

----------



You are ignoring trends. Samsung is a company on its way up. Apple is a company on its way down.
Only by market share and we've talked about that. Selling 15.5M units during last year's 4th quarter then selling 22.9M units over the same time period a year later is only down if you lack certain basic math skills. There are many ways to measure success and "market share" is merely the least, worst and/or most useless. Again, GM had the highest market share in North America for decades and lost humongous amounts of money while doing it. Market share, by itself, is a totally useless stat.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:11 PM   #136
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Not saying Apple should undercut, but find a price point that is attractive.

Success of iPad mini seems to be more then just hardware. Lower end hardware, yet cant make enough of them (yet)
Here is the real quandary for Apple. The stratospheric rise in the stock price was fueled by increased sales which resulted in great year-over-year profits due to high margins. One of the key elements that analysts looked for was margins and if Apple were maintaining them. The price rise was unreasonable. Some people thought this would go on longer than it actually has.

We saw what happened last quarter. The margins have dropped. Coming in with lower priced models is going to impact margins and that can only be cancelled out if there are a boatload of sales.

I can see the problem Apple is facing. Unless they come up with some game-changing device, they are faced with commoditization in the smartphone and tablet spaces. This commoditization is happening much quicker than it did in the PC era.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:20 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
Sorry I don't have to live with anything. You still haven't told me where they get their data from. Even if a company doesn't have true sold data, they would have shipped. Has Samsung or Amazon released shipped figures for tablets? Ever quarter Apple releases figures. Where are Samsung, Amazon and Asus's figures? You can't tell me they don't know how many tablets they sold directly or shipped to resellers.
I think I can answer your question to him. Many retailers have two different methods of stocking goods. They will either buy the goods from the manufacturer. Or the manufacturer will ship the goods to the retailer and the retailer will pay the manufacturer when the goods are sold. Some manufacturer will use the second method to stuffing the channel. What method does Samsung use?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 06:36 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
This is my point too. Forget about shipped vs sold, where are places like IDC and Gartner getting their figures from? Who, besides Apple is disclosing figures? Certainly not Amazon. And Samsung has thrown out shipped figures of their Galaxy smartphones but I've never seen any tablet figures from them. If these companies really are taking all this market share from Apple wouldn't they want to release sales figures to gloat about it?
Ever heard of Google?

Quote:
IDC's Tracker Methodology
IDC's tracker data is developed using a rigorous methodology that includes well-planned and well-coordinated local, regional, and
worldwide data cross-checks combined with a proprietary advanced data consolidation and analysis data platform managed by IDC's
Worldwide Tracker organization. Data sources used in the process of determining IDC's tracker numbers include, but are not limited to:
* In-country local vendor interviews
* Distribution data feeds
* Worldwide and regional vendor guidance
* ODM data
* In-country local channel partner discussions
* Import records
* Feedback from component suppliers
* Vendor briefings and public financial reports
As a hint, since you probably need it, it's in the linked PDF file on the right....


Edit: Sadly, it doesn't seem that they visit either Disney World or Disneyland, or talk to friends of MacRumors commenters...

Last edited by AaronEdwards; Jan 31, 2013 at 06:50 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:03 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by AaronEdwards View Post
Ever heard of Google?



As a hint, since you probably need it, it's in the linked PDF file on the right....


Edit: Sadly, it doesn't seem that they visit either Disney World or Disneyland, or talk to friends of MacRumors commenters...
So in other words, these are not numbers from the manufacturer and IDC is guessing.

And here are the numbers that Samsung had to reveal in court: http://www.zdnet.com/confidential-ap...ng-7000002447/

Quote:
For example, the original Galaxy Tab sold more than 725,000 times and brought in $325 million, whereas Samsung sold only 585,000 Galaxy Tab 10.1 devices. On top of that, the 4G LTE version of the tablet only managed to bring in $81 million in revenue from 127,000 devices sold.

In total, Samsung sold only 1.4 million tablets, dwarfed by Apple's iPad figures.
Edit: Sadly, Judge Koh didn't ask for feedback from component suppliers and interviews with local vendors, because...you know...the manufacturers know what they ship...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 07:15 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
So in other words, these are not numbers from the manufacturer and IDC is guessing.

And here are the numbers that Samsung had to reveal in court: http://www.zdnet.com/confidential-ap...ng-7000002447/



Edit: Sadly, Judge Koh didn't ask for feedback from component suppliers and interviews with local vendors, because...you know...the manufacturers know what they ship...
I'm going to try to explain things for you.
These numbers are for US sales.
IDC is estimating worldwide sales.

Edit: BTW, what the IDC is doing is not guessing. Unless you for instance think that a pollster is guessing. Or someone estimating the number of wolves is guessing. IDC do what I wrote in my previous comment and from that they estimate the sales. When companies refuse to report sales or are unable to then this is the best way to get estimates. Now you may not like their results, so please continue to bury your head in the sand. It worked so well with smart phone sales, didn't it?

Edit 2: The US is a subset of the World. (Just wanted to point that out.)

Last edited by AaronEdwards; Jan 31, 2013 at 07:52 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:30 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by BC2009 View Post
IDC exaggerating Samsung's performance again in their estimates.

Never mind what Apple did, Asus makes the Nexus 7. Amazon makes the Kindle tablets. Now ask yourself how many Galaxy Tabs you have seen in people's hands compared to Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire. Galaxy Tabs sell at two and three times the price of the Nexus 7 and Kindle.

iPads are everywhere. I went to Disneyland for New Years and people were standing in line for rides playing with iPads. It floored me. I asked one couple about it and they were from Australia. They said it was their cheapest way to get internet connectivity. Another couple I saw did not speak English -- they were from China and their iPad min was displaying everything in Chinese.

I did not see any Kindles or Nexus 7 tablets at Disneyland - and certainly no Galaxy Tabs. This could have been because Kindle and Nexus 7 simply don't have cellular connectivity at the low-end prices at which they normally sell, but I have seen plenty of those tablets out and about in other places since people use them for reading. I never see a Galaxy Tab. In fact, the last time I saw a Galaxy Tab that was not on a store shelf or being offered as a free promotion with a Samsung TV was over a year ago.

There is no way Galaxy Tab is out-selling the Nexus 7 or Amazon Kindle Fire. These estimates for Samsung are insanely high. Even Android fans attest to the Nexus 7 being the most popular Android tablet.

What did you smoke in Disneyland that made you so delusional...
Your rant reminds me of Steve Ballmer who mocked iphone 5 years ago... .
Accept the fact and face the reality. You got floored because someone from Australia and China were holding ipad in disneyland doesn't mean Ipad dominates the world and also mars....
The fruit company is not going down but losing its shine..

Last edited by appledoople; Jan 31, 2013 at 08:47 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:50 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by AaronEdwards View Post
I'm going to try to explain things for you.
These numbers are for US sales.
IDC is estimating worldwide sales.
So, Samsung is getting trounced in the US (the largest tablet market in the world), Samsung is undoubtedly the biggest Android OEM, and IDC estimated that Android must be killing it everywhere else

Yea. logical.

Quote:
Edit: BTW, what the IDC is doing is not guessing. Unless you for instance think that a pollster is guessing. Or someone estimating the number of wolves is guessing. IDC do what I wrote in my previous comment and from that they estimate the sales. When companies refuse to report sales or are unable to then this is the best way to get estimates.
So...again these are estimates and are not actual figures.

es·ti·mate
/ˈestəˌmāt/
Verb
Roughly calculate or judge the value, number, quantity, or extent of.

guess
/ges/
Verb
Estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.

But I'm burying my head in the sand....

Quote:
Now you may not like their results, so please continue to bury your head in the sand. It worked so well with smart phone sales, didn't it?
What in the world do smartphones have to do with tablet sales??

Quote:
Edit 2: The US is a subset of the World. (Just wanted to point that out.)
Edit 2: Guess is a synonym of estimate. Just wanted to point that out. But by all means, continue to argue that "estimates" mean something...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:56 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by AaronEdwards View Post
Ever heard of Google?



As a hint, since you probably need it, it's in the linked PDF file on the right....


Edit: Sadly, it doesn't seem that they visit either Disney World or Disneyland, or talk to friends of MacRumors commenters...
So basically NO sales/shipped data from OEM's. maybe this data is very accurate. But I still contend if these tablet sales were that strong Samsung, Amazon etc. would be shouting from the rooftops what they shipped/sold. Samsung has no problem doing it with phones. Also why does this data never seem to correlate with web usage stats? People who buy Android tablets don't browse the web? Or are we really supposed to believe they're all out there changing their browsers user agent? Yeah right. Outside of a small tech geek population how many people would even know how to do that?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:02 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
So basically NO sales/shipped data from OEM's. maybe this data is very accurate. But I still contend if these tablet sales were that strong Samsung, Amazon etc. would be shouting from the rooftops what they shipped/sold. Samsung has no problem doing it with phones. Also why does this data never seem to correlate with web usage stats? People who buy Android tablets don't browse the web? Or are we really supposed to believe they're all out there changing their browsers user agent? Yeah right. Outside of a small tech geek population how many people would even know how to do that?
Exactly! IDC's ridiculous article is a guess nothing more nothing less. The people who are trying to argue it as fact when there are ZERO numbers from the manufacturer to back it up (other than those presented in the trial) sure are funny.

----------

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Originally Posted by appledoople View Post
What did you smoke in Disneyland that made you so delusional...
Your rant reminds me of Steve Ballmer who mocked iphone 5 years ago... .
Accept the fact and face the reality. You got floored because someone from Australia and China were holding ipad in disneyland doesn't mean Ipad dominates the world and also mars....
The fruit company is not going down but losing its shine..
I love how the guy who joined in Feb 2013 (as in today) and probably 5 minutes ago, is so anti-apple...
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:04 PM   #145
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Here's what Apple should be afraid of:

Google selling top of the line smartphone at very low profit margin

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/30/b...s-4-lumia-920/
Engadget: Blackberry Z10 vs. iPhone 5 vs. Nexus 4 vs. Nokia Lumia 920. FIGHT!

Quote:
BlackBerry has finally, officially unveiled its maiden BB10 flagship, all-touch device, the Z10, and you can read all about RIM BlackBerry's new handset in our review. But, if you're looking to see how it and BB10 stack up against the competition running Android, iOS and Windows Phone, you've come to the right place. Check out our chart below for all the specs you can handle
can't make the chart look "readable" in the forum so you have to click on the link if you want to see the FIGHT specs between the "flagships" of each operating system.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:07 PM   #146
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Losing marketshare, declining profit margin, losing patent wars, losing customers, losing leverage, losing quality, slipping stock value, losing confidence, losing credibility, brain freeze on innovation, getting mocked in Ads, ripping off customers, fake upgrades, disaster maps, stale OS, fighting with partners, The fruit company reminds me of Nokia..
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:14 PM   #147
AaronEdwards
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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
So, Samsung is getting trounced in the US (the largest tablet market in the world), Samsung is undoubtedly the biggest Android OEM, and IDC estimated that Android must be killing it everywhere else

Yea. logical.



So...again these are estimates and are not actual figures.

es·ti·mate
/ˈestəˌmāt/
Verb
Roughly calculate or judge the value, number, quantity, or extent of.

guess
/ges/
Verb
Estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.

But I'm burying my head in the sand....



What in the world do smartphones have to do with tablet sales??



Edit 2: Guess is a synonym of estimate. Just wanted to point that out. But by all means, continue to argue that "estimates" mean something...
Please look at how estimate and guess is being described.

Guess - Estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.

Estimate - Roughly calculate or judge the value, number, quantity, or extent of.

Guess and estimate aren't perfect synonyms.

I could guess your weight or height and most likely end up be totally wrong.
I wouldn't be able to estimate either since I would need more information to do so.

And yes, these aren't the actual numbers, because those aren't available. Much like there aren't any actual numbers until the election for the support of different candidates. Or there will never be any actual numbers on the number of wolves.
Do you think there should be no polls before an election? Should there be estimations about the number of wolves? Because you will never get the actual numbers about either, but they do make really good estimations of both...

Smart phones and tablets? That's more about the reaction to the numbers. It's a repeat of the reactions when Android started to gain on iOS.

You do understand that the world isn't a bigger version of the United States?
Things differ.
For instance, compare Apple's share of smart phones in the US with for example France and Germany. Or South Korea for that matter, Samsung's home.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
So basically NO sales/shipped data from OEM's. maybe this data is very accurate. But I still contend if these tablet sales were that strong Samsung, Amazon etc. would be shouting from the rooftops what they shipped/sold. Samsung has no problem doing it with phones. Also why does this data never seem to correlate with web usage stats? People who buy Android tablets don't browse the web? Or are we really supposed to believe they're all out there changing their browsers user agent? Yeah right. Outside of a small tech geek population how many people would even know how to do that?
It's for the same reason that iOS apps sell better than Android apps. Figure it out.

I do enjoy your Baghdad Bob stick though.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:20 PM   #148
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Please look at how estimate and guess is being described.

Guess - Estimate or suppose (something) without sufficient information to be sure of being correct.

Estimate - Roughly calculate or judge the value, number, quantity, or extent of.

Guess and estimate aren't perfect synonyms.
Then why does the thesaurus say they're synonyms. Is your real last name Roget, AaronEdwards??

They're synonyms, bud. You can rewrite the thesaurus some more though, if you'd like. An estimate is a guess, a guess is an estimate. I do like how you're redefining language to prove your point though, that's pretty awesome.

Quote:
I could guess your weight or height and most likely end up be totally wrong.
I wouldn't be able to estimate either since I would need more information to do so.
You could also estimate my weight and be totally wrong. And you wouldn't be able to guess my weight since you would need more information to do so. See how that works? Synonyms!

Quote:
And yes, these aren't the actual numbers, because those aren't available.
and that makes IDC's number a guess...I'm sorry...an "estimate"

Quote:
Much like there aren't any actual numbers until the election for the support of different candidates. Or there will never be any actual numbers on the number of wolves.
So if I say "I guess there are 10 million wolves" and then I say "but I estimate there are 20 million", my "estimate" is somehow more valid? Please explain.

Quote:
Do you think there should be no polls before an election? Should there be estimations about the number of wolves? Because you will never get the actual numbers about either, but they do make really good estimations of both...
No one is doubting whether an estimate or a guess is good, what I'm saying is to present a headline such as "Apple slips to 46%" based on estimates (guesses) is a little jumping the gun-ish.

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Smart phones and tablets? That's more about the reaction to the numbers. It's a repeat of the reactions when Android started to gain on iOS.
No. It's not. Because Samsung announced their smartphone numbers. They announce every time the Galaxy line hits a milestone. They haven't announced anything for their tablets.

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You do understand that the world isn't a bigger version of the United States?
Things differ.
For instance, compare Apple's share of smart phones in the US with for example France and Germany. Or South Korea for that matter, Samsung's home.
You do understand that the world's largest smartphone and tablet market is not peanuts, right? And that Apple is being compared to multiple OEMs against hundreds (possibly thousands of phones), right?

Apple has the LEAD in tablet market share and I STILL think it's a useless statistic. It means nothing. Like I said earlier, it's a good talking point for you guys, but it means nothing. Not to Android, not to Apple not to Samsung.

Companies don't report their market share every three months.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:29 PM   #149
appledoople
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
Then why does the thesaurus say they're synonyms. Is your real last name Roget, AaronEdwards??

They're synonyms, bud. You can rewrite the thesaurus some more though, if you'd like. An estimate is a guess, a guess is an estimate. I do like how you're redefining language to prove your point though, that's pretty awesome.



You could also estimate my weight and be totally wrong. And you wouldn't be able to guess my weight since you would need more information to do so. See how that works? Synonyms!



and that makes IDC's number a guess...I'm sorry...an "estimate"



So if I say "I guess there are 10 million wolves" and then I say "but I estimate there are 20 million", my "estimate" is somehow more valid? Please explain.



No one is doubting whether an estimate or a guess is good, what I'm saying is to present a headline such as "Apple slips to 46%" based on estimates (guesses) is a little jumping the gun-ish.



No. It's not. Because Samsung announced their smartphone numbers. They announce every time the Galaxy line hits a milestone. They haven't announced anything for their tablets.



You do understand that the world's largest smartphone and tablet market is not peanuts, right? And that Apple is being compared to multiple OEMs against hundreds (possibly thousands of phones), right?

Apple has the LEAD in tablet market share and I STILL think it's a useless statistic. It means nothing. Like I said earlier, it's a good talking point for you guys, but it means nothing. Not to Android, not to Apple not to Samsung.

Companies don't report their market share every three months.
I love how the guy who joined in Jan 2013 (as in today) and probably 5 minutes ago, is so apple fanboy.....
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:54 PM   #150
CEmajr
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Charlotte, NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post
So what is the result of Android having all that market share?

Right now... Android has 5 TIMES the smartphone market share of the iPhone. Yet the iPhone is as strong as ever. More developers still prefer developing for the iPhone... despite its tiny share of the market.

You'd think with Android at 75% of the market... developers would be all over it. Are they?

So what is the prize Android gets for being the leader in market share?

Is it just being able to say they are #1 ?

I haven't seen Android turn that lead into anything useful.
Spot on with this post. My thoughts exactly when it comes to Android's large marketshare.
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