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Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:54 AM   #176
cappadonna
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I didn't state my opinion either way. But you did state there were flip floppers. So - who flip flopped. Or are you creating a strawman?
No strawman, just duplicating what goes on on the other side. You mentioned flip floppers before without naming any..it's wrong when I do the same?

Also, what is your opinion of this article?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:58 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
No strawman, just duplicating what goes on on the other side. You mentioned flip floppers before without naming any..it's wrong when I do the same?

Also, what is your opinion of this article?
I mentioned flip floppers and was called to task on it. I then named myself and someone else outed themselves. You ARE just creating a strawman - so I'm calling YOU out on it.

Personally I don't care about articles like this. I enjoy the devices I own and leave it at that. Ultimately - Apple owned the market and now they have competition. To think they will now and always have the same marketshare/better marketshare seems unrealistic. These %'s and #s will change based on many factors. None of which will still be relevant to me and I imagine many consumers who look at the device, not marketshare when making a purchasing decision.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:03 PM   #178
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this reading stuff is hard
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:04 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I mentioned flip floppers and was called to task on it. I then named myself and someone else outed themselves. You ARE just creating a strawman - so I'm calling YOU out on it.

Personally I don't care about articles like this. I enjoy the devices I own and leave it at that. Ultimately - Apple owned the market and now they have competition. To think they will now and always have the same marketshare/better marketshare seems unrealistic. These %'s and #s will change based on many factors. None of which will still be relevant to me and I imagine many consumers who look at the device, not marketshare when making a purchasing decision.
Ok now I'm confused. If you already named yourself as a flip flopper, why are you taking offense when I call you one? Do you know what a strawman is?

Second, yes marketshare is irrelevant. We all know that, even those who swear it's not. People look at devices and pick them based on what they think looks better. No one does marketshare research before buying a tablet and says "I love this galaxy tablet, but that ipad has better market share"

Useless stat, for everyone including Apple. Articles like these are just forum talking points. The fact that it's based completely on a guess makes it even funnier.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:11 PM   #180
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I flip flopped on entirely different subject matter. You said there were flip floppers about this subject. Do YOU know what a strawman is?

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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
Ok now I'm confused. If you already named yourself as a flip flopper, why are you taking offense when I call you one? Do you know what a strawman is?

Second, yes marketshare is irrelevant. We all know that, even those who swear it's not. People look at devices and pick them based on what they think looks better. No one does marketshare research before buying a tablet and says "I love this galaxy tablet, but that ipad has better market share"

Useless stat, for everyone including Apple. Articles like these are just forum talking points. The fact that it's based completely on a guess makes it even funnier.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:12 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Samsung Electronics Posts Record Fourth-Quarter Profit

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...246509020.html

But only 4% QoQ growth in mobile.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:14 PM   #182
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But only 4% QoQ growth in mobile.
Kinda weak for a holiday quarter, wouldn't you say?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:17 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by mrsir2009 View Post
Bad news, as you’d think with the cheaper iPad Mini that Apple would have GAINED marketshare.
Sales units for Apple went up a lot, but the total tablet sales went up even more.

There will always be a healthy market for low-priced tablets. Many low-end tablet buyers would never have spent the money for an iPad, so they are not lost sales for Apple. However, over time, some of these low-end tablets will be stepping stones to future iPad sales.

The Galaxy Tab 2 is a compelling story: cheap price with cheap memory expansion. It's no surprise that this baby sells. A lot of these owners won't do much with their tablets beyond email, web, and a few games. These customers will be happy. Some are expecting to do more, and expect that their tablet is a cheaper equivalent to the iPad. They are finding out that it isn't (read the 1-3 star reviews on Amazon). Eventually some of these customers will spring for an iPad.

Eventually Samsung will improve the Galaxy tablets so that they are closer to a current iPad experience, but they are not there now. By then I expect iPad models to be even better, maintaining the gap in features and value.

In the end, profits trump market share. If Apple has "only" 43% market share but 70%+ of the profits, how bad can that be?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:27 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I flip flopped on entirely different subject matter. You said there were flip floppers about this subject. Do YOU know what a strawman is?
You seem to be missing the point. The term flip flopper is thrown about so easily about Apple users and yet not one flip flopper can be named. Then when I say you flip flopped and provide examples it's a travesty! Here's the point: generalizing is poor forum etiquette so why do it?

----------

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Originally Posted by tom53092 View Post
Sales units for Apple went up a lot, but the total tablet sales went up even more.

There will always be a healthy market for low-priced tablets. Many low-end tablet buyers would never have spent the money for an iPad, so they are not lost sales for Apple. However, over time, some of these low-end tablets will be stepping stones to future iPad sales.

The Galaxy Tab 2 is a compelling story: cheap price with cheap memory expansion. It's no surprise that this baby sells. A lot of these owners won't do much with their tablets beyond email, web, and a few games. These customers will be happy. Some are expecting to do more, and expect that their tablet is a cheaper equivalent to the iPad. They are finding out that it isn't (read the 1-3 star reviews on Amazon). Eventually some of these customers will spring for an iPad.

Eventually Samsung will improve the Galaxy tablets so that they are closer to a current iPad experience, but they are not there now. By then I expect iPad models to be even better, maintaining the gap in features and value.

In the end, profits trump market share. If Apple has "only" 43% market share but 70%+ of the profits, how bad can that be?
Not bad in the slightest...which was why if Apple beat their chest over marketshare while losing money it'd be a pretty sad sight.

No one cares about market share except those that think it's some trump card, and that's on both sides.

Hint: it means nothing
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:27 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Samsung Electronics Posts Record Fourth-Quarter Profit

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...246509020.html
Won't open...

I think you have to be a subscriber.

What about Apple's profits? Seems to me they're doing rather well. I leave it to you to compare, but I'm sure if my lazy ass did a little digging on this website, along with others, I'd find the reports my memory says I read, fairly recently, saying things like "Apple: most profitable company in the world," or something to that effect.

Keep in mind also, Apple's philosophy is not to succeed at the expense of others. I seem to remember reading something along those lines, somewhere too.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:29 PM   #186
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I haven't missed anything. Your logic, argument and rationalization are just wrong. I haven't missed anything. You've failed to prove your point. You spoke generally and I called you out on it. You can't provide any proof and then you say that generalizing is poor forum etiquette? Then why did you just do it? LOL

Silly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
You seem to be missing the point. The term flip flopper is thrown about so easily about Apple users and yet not one flip flopper can be named. Then when I say you flip flopped and provide examples it's a travesty! Here's the point: generalizing is poor forum etiquette so why do it?

----------



Not bad in the slightest...which was why if Apple beat their chest over marketshare while losing money it'd be a pretty sad sight.

No one cares about market share except those that think it's some trump card, and that's on both sides.

Hint: it means nothing
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:32 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
I haven't missed anything. Your logic, argument and rationalization are just wrong. I haven't missed anything. You've failed to prove your point. You spoke generally and I called you out on it. You can't provide any proof and then you say that generalizing is poor forum etiquette? Then why did you just do it? LOL

Silly...
Your first comment in this thread was about "in before who cares about marketshare"!

I can't argue with someone who won't admit they're wrong when faced with evidence.

What exactly did you mean by that comment hmmm?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:34 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
Your first comment in this thread was about "in before who cares about marketshare"!

I can't argue with someone who won't admit they're wrong when faced with evidence.

What exactly did you mean by that comment hmmm?
Oh I get it now. You don't understand sarcasm or when someone is mocking typical responses to these articles which appear daily.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:36 PM   #189
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Oh I get it now. You don't understand sarcasm or when someone is mocking typical responses to these articles which appear daily.
Thanks. So in other words, you're mocking those who question this article, and then you question the att article. Flip flop.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:40 PM   #190
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I agree on Kindle, but Nexus 7 is sold in 14 countries right now: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nexus_7
Nexus 7 is mainly sold on Google Play, Samsung tablets can be found in almost any retailer.


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But that is my opinion. You are entitled to your own. I cannot be sure of their motivations, but their reports don't pass the sniff test.
Future trends reports are crap, but I don't think they have any agenda with they quarterly report, they can be innacurated, but not made for stock manipulation. Do they did that when they reported astonishing market share for Apple devices? I don't think so
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 12:41 PM   #191
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Thanks. So in other words, you're mocking those who question this article, and then you question the att article. Flip flop.
Again - strawman.

I didn't question ATT's statement. I questioned MR reporting of it.

You stated (again - why I have to keep posting your own words is baffling to me) "Remember when macrumors posted the article that att announced record iPhone sales? And how all the anti applers started saying that's not what att said! Knowing full well that logic and a little calculation would get you there(and of course Apple did have record sales at att) But guessing or interpreting what att meant wasn't allowed.

Now the same people are saying idcs guess is sound. Seems there's flip floppers on both sides although no one can produce a single flip flopper on the Apple side for some reason..."


Who questioned ATT's phone sales AND flip-flopped with the IDC report - ANYONE? At all?

Who is making general statements about these "suspect" people you claim and then writes that making generalizations is bad forum etiquette?

Done with you and this conversation - it's going full circle. Fact is - you've got nothing. Your comment was a generalization, not based on any facts nor any real posters here. Strawman.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:03 PM   #192
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Again - strawman.

I didn't question ATT's statement. I questioned MR reporting of it.

You stated (again - why I have to keep posting your own words is baffling to me) "Remember when macrumors posted the article that att announced record iPhone sales? And how all the anti applers started saying that's not what att said! Knowing full well that logic and a little calculation would get you there(and of course Apple did have record sales at att) But guessing or interpreting what att meant wasn't allowed.

Now the same people are saying idcs guess is sound. Seems there's flip floppers on both sides although no one can produce a single flip flopper on the Apple side for some reason..."


Who questioned ATT's phone sales AND flip-flopped with the IDC report - ANYONE? At all?

Who is making general statements about these "suspect" people you claim and then writes that making generalizations is bad forum etiquette?

Done with you and this conversation - it's going full circle. Fact is - you've got nothing. Your comment was a generalization, not based on any facts nor any real posters here. Strawman.
In this thread you're mocking the people who question this article, and in the other one you're questioning the article. That's what I said.

You can continue to rewrite what you said though. Good day.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:16 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by cappadonna View Post
In this thread you're mocking the people who question this article, and in the other one you're questioning the article. That's what I said.

You can continue to rewrite what you said though. Good day.
It's not what you said. And I'm not (just) mocking people who question this article. I'm mocking the entire back and forth that goes on in these threads.

You can continue to rewrite what you said or try to shift this to be about me and my actions - but you still continue with failed logic. But I think it's clear for anyone reading this thread how seriously they should or should not take your statements in this thread now.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:09 PM   #194
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It's not what you said. And I'm not (just) mocking people who question this article. I'm mocking the entire back and forth that goes on in these threads.

You can continue to rewrite what you said or try to shift this to be about me and my actions - but you still continue with failed logic. But I think it's clear for anyone reading this thread how seriously they should or should not take your statements in this thread now.
Let's not try to talk for everyone, now....
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:57 PM   #195
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Let's not try to talk for everyone, now....
LOL - I didn't. I said *I* think it's clear. I didn't say it's clear for everyone.

Again - reading comprehension issues. Or you're just trying to pick a fight where there is none.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:33 AM   #196
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No argument. My snark comment was based on common responses in this forum. Not reality.
I see I see. It all makes sense now. Thank you.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:43 PM   #197
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I'm sorry, is someone having a flame war?

Market share and profit go rather hand in hand. As you lose market share, you lose the ability to extract profit from purchasers. Sure, Apple could raise their profit margin but that would stall sales, or cheapen already good products. Case in point, the iPad mini 'feels cheap' when compared to the full size iPad, yet people are evidently drawn to it... Mine just died. Oh well...

And all of the gossip of Apple losing market share will mean that some undetermined population of buyers will think that means the competitors are offering a better product, and they will seek out those products, and (IMO) be hoodwinked into purchasing them, yet they will likely feel satisfied because of the gossip.

Marketing and public perceptions would be an interesting thing to study. I have known people that will suffer with a SanDisk MP3 player and not even consider an iPod because of some kind of perceived issue with Apple they have in their mind... It's a strange world out there.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 12:20 AM   #198
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apple still doing great in the tablet market, and if they release updated iPads in april then things should continue to go well for them
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 11:01 AM   #199
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Here is the real quandary for Apple. The stratospheric rise in the stock price was fueled by increased sales which resulted in great year-over-year profits due to high margins. One of the key elements that analysts looked for was margins and if Apple were maintaining them. The price rise was unreasonable. Some people thought this would go on longer than it actually has.

We saw what happened last quarter. The margins have dropped. Coming in with lower priced models is going to impact margins and that can only be cancelled out if there are a boatload of sales.

I can see the problem Apple is facing. Unless they come up with some game-changing device, they are faced with commoditization in the smartphone and tablet spaces. This commoditization is happening much quicker than it did in the PC era.
Completely agree with you.

Tablet prices are coming down while quality is going up.
Jellybean is really competitive, and Google and Amazon are offering good tablets are significantly lower cost.

If Apple is losing the demand, then it will need to lower the price to regain it, and yes reduce its margins. Of the two, I would rather have the sales then the margins.
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Old Aug 5, 2013, 06:59 PM   #200
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Can you explain how a company can increase quarter after quarter its shipments and not sell them? Is there a warehouse filled with smartphones, tablets, etc?

And exactly what is crap?
I didn't say they don't sell them. Please re-read what I posted. The post I quoted was because the person misquoted and switched SALES for SHIPMENTS which are two entierly different metrics. Yes, they eventually (usually) sell them, and sometimes they write them off at a loss, like HP did for 99$ not so long ago... (hence shipments != sales)
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