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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:49 PM   #26
nuckinfutz
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Why do you all think we want guns? The minute we're disarmed the crime is going to go up.

I don't like to be a sitting duck.

Ironic that Obama's city is having it's worst year ever DESPITE outlawing guns. But then again what criminal wants to face armed people?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
This cant keep going on like this.

At some point the international community will have to step in and take action.
Um, I think not. The international community can leave us alone and we can handle our own problems with our own laws thank you.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:51 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
This cant keep going on like this.

At some point the international community will have to step in and take action.

Are you on drugs? We meddle in other countries affairs, they don't meddle in ours.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:51 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Why do you all think we want guns? The minute we're disarmed the crime is going to go up.

I don't like to be a sitting duck.

Ironic that Obama's city is having it's worst year ever DESPITE outlawing guns. But then again what criminal wants to face armed people?
Pretty sure guns weren't outlawed in 'Obama's city' DESPITE your caps lock. So ironically, it wasn't ironic.

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Are you on drugs? We meddle in other countries affairs, they don't meddle in ours.
Was just thinkin' that
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:55 PM   #30
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All all I know is i'm home schooling my kid.

Too many dysfunctional families raising little crimetards.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:58 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by SiPi View Post
This cant keep going on like this.

At some point the international community will have to step in and take action.
I would like to see gun control, but I don't think it will happen.

As for the international community, well, it hardly has a good record at stopping violence. How many have died in Syria without any country lifting a finger to stop the violence? Don't make it sound like the rest of the world is civilized and the US isn't - there are plenty of places where gun crime is higher than the US, where the guns are used by governments against the people, etc.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 03:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
All all I know is i'm home schooling my kid.

Too many dysfunctional families raising little crimetards.
Statistically, WAY more people are killed in car accidents, so i'd recommend you never drive again.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:00 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
Don't be silly. Every country has crime. On balance the US is an excellent place to live. One has to remember that the US has more than a quarter of a billion people, so while these stories are horrible and upsetting, they are hardly the norm. Many people live their entire lives in the US without ever witnessing a crime or being affected by directly by one.
Funny then how come our murder rate per capita is much higher than other similar-cultured western nations (Canada, England, Australia, France, etc)?

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Originally Posted by nickn View Post
I have seen a huge amount of illegal drugs all over the place. I propose they ban all of them, on a federal level. Oh wait, they already did, over 40 years ago... Look at how well that has worked... Why wont the exact same thing happen with weapons??? Nobody has been able to answer that for me...
You can't grow an AK-47 in a shed behind your house like you can a weed plant.

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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
Why do you all think we want guns? The minute we're disarmed the crime is going to go up.
If that was true than England, Canada, etc would have much higher crime rates and firearm murder rates. But it's exactly the opposite.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...loped-country/

Quote:
One piece of this puzzle is the national rate of firearm-related murders, which is charted above. The United States has by far the highest per capita rate of all developed countries. According to data compiled by the United Nations, the United States has four times as many gun-related homicides per capita as do Turkey and Switzerland, which are tied for third. The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other countries on this chart. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country.
TWENTY TIMES.

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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by nuckinfutz View Post
All all I know is i'm home schooling my kid.

Too many dysfunctional families raising little crimetards.

Be careful. You never know how the mods will take the term crimetards. They may view it as rising to the level on droidtards.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
I would like to see gun control, but I don't think it will happen.

As for the international community, well, it hardly has a good record at stopping violence. How many have died in Syria without any country lifting a finger to stop the violence? Don't make it sound like the rest of the world is civilized and the US isn't - there are plenty of places where gun crime is higher than the US, where the guns are used by governments against the people, etc.
Convoluted hog wash. What has Syria got to do with gun crime rates in modern democracies? Syria failed due to UN veto rules, not due to lack of will to intervene.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:02 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post

You can't grow an AK-47 in a shed behind your house like you can a weed plant.
Right, it is even easier than that. Using a 3D printer, anyone can manufacturer guns in their home.

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-fe...-15-3d-printer
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...osed-gun-laws/
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:06 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
They're banned in Chicago but not in many surrounding areas and it's not like there's border checkpoints to go city-to-city or state-to-state.

Gun nuts try to use these stats to prove that a gun ban doesn't work but all it shows is that you can't ban something in a specific area and expect things to disappear when they aren't banned 10 miles away and people can just drive down the street to get them.

What really needs to happen is new regulations at the federal level.
And anti-gun nuts think enacting more laws will solve the problem.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:07 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by zioxide View Post
Funny then how come our murder rate per capita is much higher than other similar-cultured western nations (Canada, England, Australia, France, etc)?
Perhaps, but I seem to recall horrendous crimes occurring in all of those countries. Also, in terms of the the population of the planet, Western democracies are not the norm. They are the exception.

Don't get me wrong - I do not see the need to have an automatic or semiautomatic weapon, and I wish the US would change its Constitution to allow sensible regulation. However, these incidents are not the norm. Even if the US gun homicide rate is TWENTY times that of other countries, it is still low.

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Originally Posted by niuniu View Post
Convoluted hog wash. What has Syria got to do with gun crime rates in modern democracies? Syria failed due to UN veto rules, not due to lack of will to intervene.
My point is that the 'international community' is hardly in a higher moral position in than the US, which is what the post I quoted seemed to imply. I raised the failure to act against the Syrian government ias an example of the fact there is no international community, but a collection of governments most of which act of self-interest rather than for the benefit of people. If you would like to include the US in that, then fine. But it is not as though that somehow the international community is more moral or benevolent than the US. People are people, and yes, you share more similarities with Americans than differences.
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Last edited by VulchR; Jan 31, 2013 at 04:14 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
Perhaps, but I seem to recall horrendous crimes occurring in all of those countries. Also, in terms of the the population of the planet, Western democracies are not the norm. They are the exception.

Don't get me wrong - I do not see the need to have an automatic or semiautomatic weapon, and I wish the US would change its Constitution to allow sensible regulation. However, these incidents are not the norm. Even if the US gun homicide rate is TWENTY times that of other countries, it is still low.
Again, convoluted and meaningless.

The US is a modern developed democracy. You compare yourself to the UK and Aus, not Zimbabwe and Congo. To have to hide behind nonsense like this to excuse your gun crime rate must be mortifying.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:28 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by niuniu View Post
Again, convoluted and meaningless.

The US is a modern developed democracy. You compare yourself to the UK and Aus, not Zimbabwe and Congo. To have to hide behind nonsense like this to excuse your gun crime rate must be mortifying.
I agree with you that there should be better and more regulations of guns in the US. However, if you want comparison between the US and other countries... let's start by the number of times dictators have flourished in Europe. Or perhaps we could discuss the number of genocides. Or the number of extremist groups in Europe that bomb or shoot people even now. Or perhaps we could discuss football hooliganism. The list goes on and on...

Violence and weapons are hardly confined to the US. People are people.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:30 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by nickn View Post
Right, it is even easier than that. Using a 3D printer, anyone can manufacturer guns in their home.

http://www.nationalreview.com/the-fe...-15-3d-printer
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygree...osed-gun-laws/
Sweet. We can lock up anyone who does that just like we lock up people who build meth labs in their homes. More people for the conservatives for profit prisons, right?

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Originally Posted by webbuzz View Post
And anti-gun nuts think enacting more laws will solve the problem.
Like the article says, there are many developed, "first world" countries (UK, France, etc) that have banned guns that have much lower firearm murder rates than the US.

That is evidence that reducing the amount of guns will reduce the amount of killings.


Still waiting for the gun nuts to provide any legitimate evidence to support their idea that more guns will fix the problem.



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Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
Perhaps, but I seem to recall horrendous crimes occurring in all of those countries. Also, in terms of the the population of the planet, Western democracies are not the norm. They are the exception.

Don't get me wrong - I do not see the need to have an automatic or semiautomatic weapon, and I wish the US would change its Constitution to allow sensible regulation. However, these incidents are not the norm. Even if the US gun homicide rate is TWENTY times that of other countries, it is still low.
So are you saying we should just throw our hands up in the air and give up?

The fact that you have to compare ourselves to third world countries to make it seem like our ridiculous firearm murder rate is low is disgusting. I thought America was supposed to be a world leader? A developed, first world country?

Apparently not. But hey, as long as we have less firearm murders than Sierra Leone and Columbia, we're good, right?
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:35 PM   #42
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So are you saying we should just throw our hands up in the air and give up?
OFFS - did you not read that I think the best way would be to amend the Constitution to specify better gun control? You quoted it. My point is not about the merits of gun control, but that as bad as some of the US laws are, that it is still a great place to live.
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Last edited by VulchR; Jan 31, 2013 at 04:41 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:39 PM   #43
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Be careful. You never know how the mods will take the term crimetards. They may view it as rising to the level on droidtards.
Ahhhhhh I see Macrumors is soft on crime!! tsk tsk

Back on topic. I think our problem in the US comes down to the family unit.

1. Broken homes reared by single parents well into the red
2. Ridiculous work hours creating latchkey kids by the millions
3. A love affair with violence whether it be in music, cinema or games.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:41 PM   #44
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I agree with you that there should be better and more regulations of guns in the US. However, if you want comparison between the US and other countries... let's start by the number of times dictators have flourished in Europe. Or perhaps we could discuss the number of genocides. Or the number of extremist groups in Europe that bomb or shoot people even now. Or perhaps we could discuss football hooliganism. The list goes on and on...

Violence and weapons are hardly confined to the US. People are people.
We're talking specifically about gun crime laws. We don't need the old geezer 'people are people' act.

Do tell us more about dictators. Maybe you could start with how many you've funded. Or your love for the IRA? How many people you've blown up in the Middle East? Lets just cut the chase and go straight to nuclear weapons and tally up who's nuked another country.

Or maybe we could stick to gun crime comparisons in democracies. America owes it to the gunned down school children at least.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:49 PM   #45
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i don't have the correct answer. nor will i pretend to. i've seen both sides. i grew up with guns, my job required guns, now as a parent, i choose to have no guns in the home. at all. strike that, one Daisy bb 'gun'.

all i know is that i am getting really tired of all the kids with access to loaded firearms, and all the innocent victims that end up shot because of it. it needs to change. somehow.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 04:57 PM   #46
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We're talking specifically about gun crime laws. We don't need the old geezer 'people are people' act.

Do tell us more about dictators. Maybe you could start with how many you've funded.
If you list the number of dictators that have been funded by European countries. We don't even have to talk about the colonial times....

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Or your love for the IRA?
I personally have no love for the IRA, which is one of many homegrown violent extremist groups in Europe.

Quote:
How many people you've blown up in the Middle East?
Let's add the tally from France and the UK.

Quote:
Lets just cut the chase and go straight to nuclear weapons and tally up who's nuked another country.
News flash: a country at war uses every means possible to vanquish a foe that started the war without warning, committed atrocities and war crimes, and encouraged its soldiers to perform suicide attacks.

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Or maybe we could stick to gun crime comparisons in democracies. America owes it to the gunned down school children at least.
I would prefer the the US amends the Constitution to regulate guns better. However, your moral indignation rings hollow to me.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:08 PM   #47
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Atlanta Public Schools Superintendent Erroll Davis said he is hopeful the victim of Thursday's shooting outside of an Atlanta middle school would be released on Thursday.

A 14-year-old boy was shot in the back of the head on Thursday. He was said to be alert and conscious as he was transported to Grady Memorial Hospital.
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Atlanta Police Chief George Turner said that the suspect in the shooting was disarmed and apprehended by a school resource officer. That officer was an armed off-duty Atlanta Police officer, Turner said.
http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/20922511/aps-chief

There were also metal detectors at the school. It is unknown how the shooter gained access to the school.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:12 PM   #48
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your moral indignation rings hollow to me.
I'm sure it does Take a look at yourself.

And delete that list of juvenile arguments to your country's misdeeds. Cringe-worthy material that.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:17 PM   #49
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Why do you all think we want guns? The minute we're disarmed the crime is going to go up.
Right cause we all know criminals shake in their boots every time they do something to someone thinking they will get shot. Kind of like the death penalty scares murders straight. More guns less crime is an illusion.
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 05:20 PM   #50
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Why is it any other country's business?
That is an interesting question to ask
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