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Old Feb 1, 2013, 03:57 PM   #126
TouchMint.com
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Originally Posted by akbarali.ch View Post
firstly the comparison of apple with other company is itself wrong. Apple makes one phone that costs a lot. By comparison here in India,
iPhone 4 costs 34000 ($630),
iphone 4S costs 41000 ($750) and
iphone 5 costs 45000 ($830)

these are pretty high figure for a phone, atleast here in India.

If you see Samsung's phone,

s3 cost 29000 ($540) a current generation Samsung device, way cheaper than Apple's 2 year old Device. Apple is definitely not trying to compete, maybe with the cheaper iPhone they will in future, then we'll see a proper competition. If you look a little more closely then Samsung sells a touch screen smartphone costing Rs.6000 ($112), cheap in price and cheap in quality and still lot of people buy it, a lot of people. Thats galaxy y i'm talking about.

Also, no doubt that Samsung makes some good hardware, but they have a different strategy than Apple. Their target is to sell to as many people as possible. Apple just want only people who can afford their high standards.

As of now comparing Samsung and Apple is like comparing a Wallpaper and Painting.


Pretty good insight. Apples profit margins gotta be quite a bit higher than anyone else from their "apple/luxury" tax.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:05 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by TouchMint.com View Post
Pretty good insight. Apples profit margins gotta be quite a bit higher than anyone else from their "apple/luxury" tax.
Just one of the reasons they are getting hammered on wall street.

Interesting blog post I found via news.google.com

http://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2012/1...on-and-margins

It's more about why Amazon's stock is going up vs Apple's which is going down and how it has nothing to do with profitability/Q reports.

Interesting quotes
"If you're the low-cost leader, customers will forgive a lot of sins."

"An incumbent with high margins, especially in technology, is like a deer that wears a bullseye on its flank. Assuming a company doesn't have a monopoly, its high margin structure screams for a competitor to come in and compete on price, if nothing else, and it also hints at potential complacency. If the company is public, how willing will they be to lower their own margins and take a beating on their public valuation?"

"Smart companies compete first by playing to their strengths, but Amazon also cleaves to a low margin strategy, I believe, because it's demonstrated the advantages noted above. Amazon could try to build a high margin tablet to compete with Apple, but why would they? How have companies that have tried to challenge Apple with design and build quality fared these past few years? Why would you try to challenge Apple in the areas it is strongest at?"
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:07 PM   #128
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There are other countries?
Sad thing is you are probably not joking. When I was in the states they asked if new zealand was up by newfoundland.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:07 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by mmikuta View Post
Time to shift the conversation. Apple is no longer in danger of going out of business like is was in the 90's. This was Steve's greatest accomplishment. Apple now has the ecosystem to carry it long into the future. Let others obsess with profits and marketshare. We want continued great design and polished innovation. The rest will take of itself.
Look at (for example) Mac Pro releases and maybe you will see "Let others obsess with profits" in another way
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:08 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by M-O View Post
let me guess. more cores, more speed, more megapixels, and more screen. how innovative.
Better than just more of the same no?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:11 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by M-O View Post
yes. it includes all smartphones. the cheapest iPhone you can get is $450. the cheapest Android handset you can get is $80. Cheap always wins the masses.

but none of it matters. Apple doesn't care about market share. They care about keeping the customer happy and spending like crazy.
If it includes all phones - then your $450 isn't accurate. Because you can get an iPhone subsidized for free. And same for Android.

And agreed re: Apple. But ultimately, as a business - they do care about marketshare. Marketshare, profits, customer loyalty, etc - all of it.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:15 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Just one of the reasons they are getting hammered on wall street.

Interesting blog post I found via news.google.com

http://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2012/1...on-and-margins

It's more about why Amazon's stock is going up vs Apple's which is going down and how it has nothing to do with profitability/Q reports.

Interesting quotes
"If you're the low-cost leader, customers will forgive a lot of sins."

"An incumbent with high margins, especially in technology, is like a deer that wears a bullseye on its flank. Assuming a company doesn't have a monopoly, its high margin structure screams for a competitor to come in and compete on price, if nothing else, and it also hints at potential complacency. If the company is public, how willing will they be to lower their own margins and take a beating on their public valuation?"

"Smart companies compete first by playing to their strengths, but Amazon also cleaves to a low margin strategy, I believe, because it's demonstrated the advantages noted above. Amazon could try to build a high margin tablet to compete with Apple, but why would they? How have companies that have tried to challenge Apple with design and build quality fared these past few years? Why would you try to challenge Apple in the areas it is strongest at?"
Very very good insight I like how you think! They have an established brand about them that is very rare in the industry its almost as if they sell more and gain more followers because of their higher price (they have great quality also but people are attracted to their price in some ways too.)

The funny thing about this is Apple promotes the exact opposite strategy in their app market. Apple ranks their free apps much much higher than paid apps in search results. If you look at their recommendations and promoted apps 90% of them are free.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:19 PM   #133
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Sure, Samsung is winning annually right now.

Release the more cost-effective iPhone during March/April. Release the awesome iPhone during September/November. Cannibalization? Not much with that schedule.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:19 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by TouchMint.com View Post
Very very good insight I like how you think! They have an established brand about them that is very rare in the industry its almost as if they sell more and gain more followers because of their higher price (they have great quality also but people are attracted to their price in some ways too.)

The funny thing about this is Apple promotes the exact opposite strategy in their app market. Apple ranks their free apps much much higher than paid apps in search results. If you look at their recommendations and promoted apps 90% of them are free.
Because at the end of the day - it's really all about the ecosystem. And if you can get people "stuck" in your ecosystem - it's that much harder to get out. So whet people's appetites with some great free apps - and that will get them into your camp...

On the flip side - Apple's iBook strategy isn't great because unlike Amazon, an iBook can only be read on an iDevice where Amazon's book (even though still proprietary) can be read on just about anything.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:28 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Better than just more of the same no?
no, it's exactly more of the same...

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
If it includes all phones - then your $450 isn't accurate. Because you can get an iPhone subsidized for free. And same for Android.

And agreed re: Apple. But ultimately, as a business - they do care about marketshare. Marketshare, profits, customer loyalty, etc - all of it.
ok, you just aren't following.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:32 PM   #136
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analyst - A real Pain in the ass


this guys say what they want and everything goes down hill


but funny during new product launching, they do say the same but the product wins in the end........ so whats happening now
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:37 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by slesnick3 View Post
Just pointing out that Apple took the lead for the last quarter most likely due to the timing of the release of the Iphone 5. Samsung was still significantly ahead for the entire year. The title of this article is a bit misleading and reads as though this is some sort of mega competition ala Super Bowl.
The title is absolutely accurate. You're just changing the scope of the time period in question. Market share is the percentage of sales that a given company takes of a given product category in a given time frame (typically one quarter) so your comment is sort of nonsensical and just moving the goal posts.

For the time period in question, Apple took the majority of the sales and took the lead from Samsung. That's what the numbers show and that's what the headline says. It doesn't say for the whole year/decade/century.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:39 PM   #138
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Don't worry, Samsung is still the TOP US Phone Vendor

I hate link bait. Samsung is still the top US phone vendor and has been since 2008. Did Apple sell more phones than Samsung did in Q4 2012 as the title suggests? Yes. By a measly 0.09%. Throughout 2012 though, Sammy reigned king with 53% market share. Apple came in second place with 43.7%.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:42 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by turtlez View Post
I wonder if Samsung gets counted multiple times per person handing it back in for repairs. My brother's girlfriend's S3 is off to repair for the 3rd time since release. My dad's S2 is off to repair for the 1st time in 2 months. My brother's girlfriend's brother's S3 is off to repair for the 2nd time since release. My 3GS has been flawless since release. My Brothers iPhone 5 has been flawless since release. My mum's nokia 6300 has been flawless since release.
You've got quite the nice sum of anecdotal evidence there sir! Look around. iPhones are not immune to issues. There are people on the other side of the coin (equally wrong) that claim apple quality control has gone down hill because they know two people who had issues too. Your numbers mean nothing at all.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:44 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by M-O View Post
let me guess. more cores, more speed, more megapixels, and more screen. how innovative.
Wow an extra row of icons and a slight upgrade from the 4S, how innovative (and I own an iPhone 5 currently)
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:47 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by SirLance99 View Post
Don't worry, Samsung is still the TOP US Phone Vendor

I hate link bait. Samsung is still the top US phone vendor and has been since 2008. Did Apple sell more phones than Samsung did in Q4 2012 as the title suggests? Yes. By a measly 0.09%. Throughout 2012 though, Sammy reigned king with 53% market share. Apple came in second place with 43.7%.
Market share is not the same as customer base or total sales. Some of you seem to be confusing the two.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:48 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by nick_elt View Post
Sad thing is you are probably not joking. When I was in the states they asked if new zealand was up by newfoundland.
Yesterday I went into verizon because I was trading my wife's phone with someone and we needed to get them activated. They saw in their system my number was from Iowa (which is where I went to school) and asked if it was up near Washington. Am I going to base my opinions of new englander intelligence on a couple bimbos working at verizon? Not at all.

And everyone knows New Zealand is deep within the heart of China, right? I bet they were pulling your leg.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:48 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
Or Apple Fans = ******** over a witty ad.

Oh please. Step away and be objective for a second. it's a pretty amusing ad. In any arena where there has been so much litigation - it would be amusing.

If for the past year - two car companies, soft drinks, etc were at each other throats - you wouldn't be amused by this ad. really?
I'm sorry, did I say anything in my post about the ad not being amusing? Calmate amigo....calmate!
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:55 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by teejaysyke View Post
Wow an extra row of icons and a slight upgrade from the 4S, how innovative (and I own an iPhone 5 currently)
At this point, unless we see brand new battery, screen, or camera technologies emerging, the only innovation we are likely to see will be in software.

There is a double edged sword here. If apple makes software features available (as they did with maps, upgraded Siri, passbook) to precious devices, they can't use just the software as a selling point for the new device. If they limit software to only new devices, they get criticized for doing so. To be clear, I am not saying they should limit devices, but there is only so much they can do currently with hardware. Can they make the screen even bigger? Sure. Is that innovation? I don't know. Some would say yes, some would say no. I guess the question is, what would you like to see that you would find innovative in the next iPhone that is a fully attainable? Lets not say things like 500 hour battery, 4k night vision video recording, etc.

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Originally Posted by inkswamp View Post
The title is absolutely accurate. You're just changing the scope of the time period in question. Market share is the percentage of sales that a given company takes of a given product category in a given time frame (typically one quarter) so your comment is sort of nonsensical and just moving the goal posts.

For the time period in question, Apple took the majority of the sales and took the lead from Samsung. That's what the numbers show and that's what the headline says. It doesn't say for the whole year/decade/century.
The title gave us no goalposts, hence why it feels misleading.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:03 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by lordofthereef View Post
The title gave us no goalposts, hence why it feels misleading.
There's no need for goalposts to be established. Typically a market share discussion focuses on quarterly sales because most companies reveal their numbers on a quarterly basis. Market share is almost never discussed in terms of an entire year (which would be almost meaningless since market share is used to track movement in the market.) It just makes no sense to assume it's a year in the absence of an explicitly stated time frame or to expand it out to a year to claim the headline is inaccurate. It's not inaccurate.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:04 PM   #146
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:40 PM   #147
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It costs a lot of money to set up assemblies and part sources for hundreds of different phones. Apple only needs to worry about a few, so they save a lot of money their. You also got your last statement wrong, people who have no idea what they want and those who don't know much about technology other than apple is a company buy iphones. Most people don't buy android because they DO know what they want.
Allow me to rephrase. If you walk into a carrier store, and you tell a salescritter that you want a phone, without mentioning the iPhone, you're not going to walk out with an iPhone. On all but a very few occasions, everyone I know who has gone into any carrier store and asked for an iPhone has at least once been asked by the salesperson if they had considered another phone. Carrier stores actively try to steer people away from iPhones because the margins for the store is lower. It's simple economics.

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Originally Posted by wkadamsjr View Post
Two things:

1. People who want an iPhone are usually smart enough to buy from Apple directly or online, where they don't have to deal with the salesman.

2. The last line is false. There are some people who actually prefer Android over iOS . If you fail to realize that, you are living in the dark.
The last line was poorly worded. It was meant say that people who know that they want an iPhone get an iPhone, and people who go into a store with no knowledge of phones end up with an android phone. Not that the only person who knows what they want is the person who wants an iPhone.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:54 PM   #148
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Funny. Every other story I read especially on Engadget, says that Apple won the quarter but Samsung downright outsold Apple for the year.
I actually wish there was a consistent method behind the estimates, but yeah the article is biased.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TouchMint.com View Post
The funny thing about this is Apple promotes the exact opposite strategy in their app market. Apple ranks their free apps much much higher than paid apps in search results. If you look at their recommendations and promoted apps 90% of them are free.
This isn't an inconsistent strategy. They've always sunk software costs to push their hardware. Note how Apple often underbids third party developers and strings them along with their wild API changes.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:57 PM   #149
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Catsup!

This is quite a battle. Apple, the scrappy little upstart originally begun by hippies working in their Mom's garage, eked out a 0.9% win in the fourth quarter!

Meanwhile Samsung maintained a whopping lead of damn near 10% for the year as a whole.

"Apple Overtakes Samsung..." is the headline. My mind boggles.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:57 PM   #150
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In the US. If you go worldwide apple gets obliterated.

Really? And what numbers do you have to support this??????
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