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Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:11 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Orange Crane View Post
This is a good point to note. If you don't have a very active lifestyle, changing over to something like a bike commute can be tough, but only for the first few weeks. I'm an example of this. I picked up a bike for the first time since I was a kid about two years ago. I live a dozen miles and 1k feet elevation gain from work in a very hilly city, nearly on par with San Francisco in that regard but worse weather and worse road conditions. When I got my bike I was about 40 lbs overweight with issues with feet and back directly related to a sedentary lifestyle. These all echo many common reasons people don't get on a bike - weather, health, topography, distance, infrastructure, all less than ideal. I'm not pointing this out because I'm exceptional, just the opposite. If I could do it, the majority of people can. When I first started I rode on sidewalks and walked up hills. A month later hills were no longer an issue. Six months into a daily commute I'd dropped the extra weight and associated ailments. After a year I found that my car usage had become so infrequent I was able to trade my former daily driver Honda for a nice '62 thunderbird for the once or twice a month I want to use a car. I ride a big, slow, comfortable bike that is better suited for grocery runs than winning races. I'm extremely average on most points, I dont live in suburban sprawl or the heart of the city either. I think if going from daily car to daily bike was attainable for me, it is for most of my fellow citizens as well. Like with most things the hardest part is mental. Though it doesn't hurt that it's fun as hell.. I'll be spending the upcoming gorgeous weekend riding the Oregon coast by day and enjoying dank northwest porters in the evenings.
Good post, and I agree. It's just a matter of doing it, and it depends on your lifestyle.

I'm going to buy a bike this summer, myself, and use it for my daily commute to class. I can't really do that right now since I work ~ 30 miles away until this semseter is over.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:12 PM   #77
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Motorists see dogs, 3-year-olds, pieces of lumber in the road, all much smaller than a velo. If visibility is a concern, there are very effective lighting systems. In the end, the driver's first responsibility is to not hit things in the car's path, even if it pisses them off to slow down.
We have recumbents in the city and they seem to survive fine so I'm sure it's not that big an issue. It would take nerve to get into that position among traffic where I live though. Drivers are aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Orange Crane View Post
This is a good point to note. If you don't have a very active lifestyle, changing over to something like a bike commute can be tough, but only for the first few weeks. I'm an example of this. I picked up a bike for the first time since I was a kid about two years ago. I live a dozen miles and 1k feet elevation gain from work in a very hilly city, nearly on par with San Francisco in that regard but worse weather and worse road conditions. When I got my bike I was about 40 lbs overweight with issues with feet and back directly related to a sedentary lifestyle. These all echo many common reasons people don't get on a bike - weather, health, topography, distance, infrastructure, all less than ideal. I'm not pointing this out because I'm exceptional, just the opposite. If I could do it, the majority of people can. When I first started I rode on sidewalks and walked up hills. A month later hills were no longer an issue. Six months into a daily commute I'd dropped the extra weight and associated ailments. After a year I found that my car usage had become so infrequent I was able to trade my former daily driver Honda for a nice '62 thunderbird for the once or twice a month I want to use a car. I ride a big, slow, comfortable bike that is better suited for grocery runs than winning races. I'm extremely average on most points, I dont live in suburban sprawl or the heart of the city either. I think if going from daily car to daily bike was attainable for me, it is for most of my fellow citizens as well. Like with most things the hardest part is mental. Though it doesn't hurt that it's fun as hell.. I'll be spending the upcoming gorgeous weekend riding the Oregon coast by day and enjoying dank northwest porters in the evenings.
Great post, hope a lot of non-cyclists read it
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 10:36 AM   #78
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I live in Houston and I've actually commuted to work more than a few times - about 20 miles each way. If the drivers in their 8 ton Ford F-450's would pay better attention to the world around them, I'd probably do it a lot more often.
No offense, but, I've driven in a very large number of places, and, Houston is positively the worst. I can't imagine bicycle commuting 20 miles there. Really taking your life in your hands.

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I personally object to financial penalties being used to force people to change their lifestyle - if you want people to cycle more, then make it more attractive, not make the alternatives less so
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I also agree. Life is expensive enough. We need a cultural shift and infrastructure to support it.
I am 100% confident that the rising price of gasoline will eventually change people's thinking. The main worry I have is that people will rebel against gas prices and demand tax-supported subsidies.

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Originally Posted by glocke12 View Post

I live 32 miles. No way I could bike that distance as part of my commute. First its too far, second it is on roadways that would be suicide for bike riders.
As gas prices rise, people will have to make much more of an effort to live closer to work.

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It's 16 miles on average in the US. Already covered earlier in the thread.
16 miles is very doable as far as miles, but, I'm hard-pressed to go 5 miles, because of heavy traffic and all the traffic lights.

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still borderline on being far...I know Id be hard pressed to bike 16 miles one way twice a day...under ten sure.

Also, don't forget alot of people in their 50s and above are part of the work force.....not many of those folks would be inclined to bike Id bet.
Agreed. But, not everyone has to ride bikes. Just enough to make it safe for everyone.

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Starting to cycle, 16 miles twice a day isn't easy. I agree.

Experienced cyclists don't even notice a 16 mile commute, and if the culture shifts and people cycle from a young age, like the Netherlands for example, then those people would benefit. It'll be their world after all when we're gone.
It is the traffic and the traffic lights. Bike throughways (there are some) help tremendously.

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FWIW, for a cyclist who rides often, 16 miles is nothing. I can ride 16 flat or slightly graded miles in about 40 minutes.
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Originally Posted by niuniu View Post

Yeah, bikes are no.1 for energy efficiency. With experience you can cover great distances, in nice times, with little effort.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle...rgy_efficiency
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one thing you are all ignoring is inclement weather...

explain to me what your plans are for riding in snow, sleet, sub-zero temps, excessive heat and excessive humidity.
In the midwest, I would be thinking more about public transit than bicycling for commuting. Nothing like showing up for work dripping with sweat (I've done it) and no place to shower/change.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:17 AM   #79
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I've been car free for almost 4 years now. I've always biked a lot but in April 2009, I quit smoking, sold my car and bought a commuter bike. TBH, the car needed a lot of work and I thought I'd live car free for a year and save up for a new one.

I live in Chico, CA which in 2012 had the 6th highest number of bicycle commuters in the nation. Fortunately, a concerted effort was made 30+ years ago to create a master bike plan. It includes separated paths as well as on street routes. We have had bicycle corrals for well over a decade and businesses can request from the city to have bike parking stanchions installed on the sidewalk. All new businesses have to install bike parking. Through ARRA funds, two years ago the city was able to finish the north south bicycle path as well as add sharrows to streets and stripe bike lanes. With Safe Routes to School funds, tunnels were installed under two busy streets near the Jr High and High Schools. The bike racks at both are always filled to capacity. Chico State University has also made cycling integral to their master plan and racks are everywhere. Enloe Hospital, build.com and Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. all actively encourage cycling not only for commuting but also for recreation and health.

It helps that Chico is in California's central valley. Yeah, it gets pretty hot in the summer, but there's almost no humidity and although winter mornings can get frosty, we don't get any snow. It's also flat as a pancake with the biggest elevation gains, the highway overpasses.

With the exception of Davis, CA, Chico is by far the most bike friendly place I've ever been in the US.

It's all paid off immensely. While Chico has a high rate of commuters, it also has a high rate of recreational riders. It's very common to see young children along with retirees on the cycle paths around town, some of which can get pretty congested during rush hour. Some people believe that women of child bearing age are an 'indicator species' so to speak about the success of cycling in an area. Chico has them by the hundreds.

While cycling groups have certainly helped create this cyclist's paradise, it was the establishment of the Greenline back in the 70s that makes it work. Even back then, sprawl was starting to encroach on farmland and so a bunch of dedicated environmentalists pushed for and won an urban growth boundary, something that was later mandated by the state. Two similar sized urban areas near Chico, Redding to the north and Yuba City/Marysville to the south are ugly, sprawling places with little concern for sprawl or pedestrian/bicycle friendliness. Planning is the key to a great cycling city.

There are times when it would be nice to have a car waiting for me outside my door, but ZipCar is great for short trips and for longer periods I rent a car. I don't have plans to buy a car anytime in the near future.

It's an incredibly safe place to cycle. The people I worry about the most are the elderly in their aging Crown Vics. They don't get it and can't judge the distance between me and their car and in some cases can't see me. Of the three most recent auto/cyclist accidents in Chico, the auto driver was older than 60.

Cycling is the future.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:37 AM   #80
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Cycling is the future.
You live in Chico. I love the town, though it's way too hot for me.

I'm in Humboldt County and it not so bike friendly over here. There's been a plan—really more of an aspiration—for years to turn an unused railway into a bike/commuter path to connect the county's two main towns on Humboldt Bay.

The sticking point has been the refusal of the North Coast Rail Authority to grant rights based on the highly questionable notion that the railway would come back into use.

Humboldt Bay is a difficult location to access. Railways would have to run through unstable river canyons and cost a ton of money to maintain. There is little chance that kind of investment would be made, especially considering the lack demand for the service.

So for years we've put off providing a path for the many commuters and tourists who would benefit from it.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 11:57 AM   #81
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You live in Chico. I love the town, though it's way too hot for me.

I'm in Humboldt County and it not so bike friendly over here. There's been a plan—really more of an aspiration—for years to turn an unused railway into a bike/commuter path to connect the county's two main towns on Humboldt Bay.

The sticking point has been the refusal of the North Coast Rail Authority to grant rights based on the highly questionable notion that the railway would come back into use.

Humboldt Bay is a difficult location to access. Railways would have to run through unstable river canyons and cost a ton of money to maintain. There is little chance that kind of investment would be made, especially considering the lack demand for the service.

So for years we've put off providing a path for the many commuters and tourists who would benefit from it.
It's a shame they can't do something about it. The stretch from Arcata to Eureka isn't very bike friendly. From McKinleyville to Arcata you can at least go through the Bottoms but Arcata to Eureka the only choice is 101. Also, Eureka to Fortuna could use a dedicated route, especially with College of the Redwoods being so isolated.

Butte College here is also midway between Chico and Oroville and there's no good way to cycle there. All these community colleges out in the boonies are a true tragedy of planning in the 60s and 70s.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:09 PM   #82
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....However I can't stand elitist cyclist holier than thou types that think riding a bike makes them Ghandi......
I wouldn't mind their attitude if they would do things like stop at stop signs
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:13 PM   #83
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It's a shame they can't do something about it. The stretch from Arcata to Eureka isn't very bike friendly.
Well ... they're trying.

And I imagine that sooner or later they'll make it happen.

But as you say, riding a few feet from highway traffic with nothing between you and the cars but a painted line is not "bike friendly".

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However I can't stand elitist cyclist holier than thou types that think riding a bike makes them Ghandi. Only slightly more irritating is hybrid drivers with the same attitude.
Yet still less irritating than your post.

Talk about attitude.

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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:21 PM   #84
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I wouldn't mind their attitude if they would do things like stop at stop signs
This is actually a big issue. I believe Idaho just passed a law allowing cyclists to go through a stop sign without stopping as long as it's safe to do so. On a bicycle, momentum is everything.

The bigger issue is the antagonism towards cyclists. The more cyclists on the road, the fewer cars and that's something that everyone should celebrate, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

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But as you say, riding a few feet from highway traffic with nothing between you and the cars but a painted line is not "bike friendly".
I lived in Humboldt for a couple of years and the worst thing about 101 was all the debris on the southbound shoulder. They need to cut down those stupid eucalyptus trees. All the dead branches are a huge hazard to cyclists. It would be great to see California make more of an effort to improve the shoulders of 101 southbound to match what Oregon has done. The Pacific Coast cycle route sees thousands of cyclists from around the world. Maybe they could use rumble strips or something to create more of a lane separation.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:25 PM   #85
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Or we could ban cars from roads that don't have a dedicated car lane.
Then stop collecting registration fee's or paying fuel tax, or massive road tax's for trucks....The roads are paved from these revenues or how about paying bicycle road fees and registrations....
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:25 PM   #86
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This is actually a big issue. I believe Idaho just passed a law allowing cyclists to go through a stop sign without stopping as long as it's safe to do so. On a bicycle, momentum is everything.

The bigger issue is the antagonism towards cyclists. The more cyclists on the road, the fewer cars and that's something that everyone should celebrate, but it doesn't seem to work that way.
I think the reason for that is the stereotype of smugness, and because more often than not (at least in my experience) cyclists are on the road, and in the way. Not that it's necessarily fair, since they have nowhere else to ride.

And this may be off topic, so feel free to PM me if it is, but what would you guys recommend for somebody to use for a daily bike?
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:35 PM   #87
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I lived in Humboldt for a couple of years and the worst thing about 101 was all the debris on the southbound shoulder. They need to cut down those stupid eucalyptus trees.
Trees still there.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:37 PM   #88
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I think the reason for that is the stereotype of smugness, and because more often than not (at least in my experience) cyclists are on the road, and in the way. Not that it's necessarily fair, since they have nowhere else to ride.

And this may be off topic, so feel free to PM me if it is, but what would you guys recommend for somebody to use for a daily bike?
Is your area hilly?
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:37 PM   #89
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This is actually a big issue. I believe Idaho just passed a law allowing cyclists to go through a stop sign without stopping as long as it's safe to do so. On a bicycle, momentum is everything....
"momentuming" thru a stop sign in front of traffic, or into pedestrians in the cross walk, isn't safe but all too common

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.....The bigger issue is the antagonism towards cyclists. The more cyclists on the road, the fewer cars and that's something that everyone should celebrate, but it doesn't seem to work that way......
too many bicyclists simply refuse to follow the rules of the road and then complain about how they're viewed by pedestrians and car drivers
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:38 PM   #90
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Is your area hilly?
Yeah, I'm in pretty good shape too, idk if that makes a difference, but I'd prefer not to arrive drenched in sweat.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:39 PM   #91
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"momentuming" thru a stop sign in front of traffic, or into pedestrians in the cross walk, isn't safe but all too common



too many bicyclists simply refuse to follow the rules of the road and then complain about how they're viewed by pedestrians and car drivers
All the same goes for drivers. Except drivers kill people when they're being reckless.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:43 PM   #92
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All the same goes for drivers. Except drivers kill people when they're being reckless.
except reckless bikers can kill too....admittedly they're more apt to kill pedestrians
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:52 PM   #93
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I wouldn't mind their attitude if they would do things like stop at stop signs
We are The Cyclists (brief video classic)

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Then stop collecting registration fee's or paying fuel tax, or massive road tax's for trucks....The roads are paved from these revenues or how about paying bicycle road fees and registrations....
Think again. Most of Europe pays around $8/gallon, and even that is a little low. Get back to us when you are actually paying your share as a motorist.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:57 PM   #94
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Yeah, I'm in pretty good shape too, idk if that makes a difference, but I'd prefer not to arrive drenched in sweat.
Yes definitely does. I'm a sucker for hip looking bikes so I'd give crap recommendations, maybe best buyin' a 10 speed flat bar road bike off eBay or Craigs.

Personally I'd spend a bit and buy a Cannondale Bad Boy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/schubi7...n/pool-badboys
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 12:58 PM   #95
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Yes definitely does. I'm a sucker for hip looking bikes so I'd give crap recommendations, maybe best buyin' a 10 speed flat bar road bike off eBay or Craigs.

Personally I'd spend a bit and buy a Cannondale Bad Boy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/schubi7...n/pool-badboys
Yeah I'm not afraid to spend money on something if it's going to last
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:02 PM   #96
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Yeah I'm not afraid to spend money on something if it's going to last
Not worried it would get knicked where you are?
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:05 PM   #97
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Yeah I'm not afraid to spend money on something if it's going to last
Well, if you have the mo ey, consider a Rans Crank-Forward type bike: the seat is a little more comfortable, and I have heard their layout lends to really good climbing ability.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:21 PM   #98
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We are The Cyclists (brief video classic)



Think again. Most of Europe pays around $8/gallon, and even that is a little low. Get back to us when you are actually paying your share as a motorist.
Becuase you have been duped for sooo long doesnt make it right does it..?? Oh yea, the left's credo, tell a lie long enough till it become truth..Perhaps you need to hike domestic production...Fair share, boy does that get old....hahahaha
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 01:24 PM   #99
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Well, if you have the mo ey, consider a Rans Crank-Forward type bike: the seat is a little more comfortable, and I have heard their layout lends to really good climbing ability.
Well... idk about $1600 though!
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 02:35 PM   #100
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Then stop collecting registration fee's or paying fuel tax, or massive road tax's for trucks....The roads are paved from these revenues or how about paying bicycle road fees and registrations....
Only ~35% of state and local road construction is paid for by motorists in the US, the remainder comes from state and federal general funds according to the http://taxfoundation.org/article/gas...-road-spending

If a cyclist were to pay an equivalent percentage then it wouldn't even cover the administration expense.

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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
I think the reason for that is the stereotype of smugness, and because more often than not (at least in my experience) cyclists are on the road, and in the way. Not that it's necessarily fair, since they have nowhere else to ride.

And this may be off topic, so feel free to PM me if it is, but what would you guys recommend for somebody to use for a daily bike?
There are so many good bikes out there for less than $750, it's really a matter of what you plan to use it for. My advise is to find the best bike shop where you live and talk to them especially since you're just starting.

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"momentuming" thru a stop sign in front of traffic, or into pedestrians in the cross walk, isn't safe but all too common



too many bicyclists simply refuse to follow the rules of the road and then complain about how they're viewed by pedestrians and car drivers
There needs to be more education for cyclists and it should start in school. I would suggest that getting a cycling certificate be required before getting a drivers license.
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