Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:07 AM   #1
eric/
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Engineering Orange Juice

Found this interesting article on how Coca Cola manufactures it's orange juice brands, and thought it would shead some interesting light on the state of food and beverage manufacturing.




Quote:
Don’t let the name fool you. Coca-Cola’s (KO) Simply Orange juice is anything but pick, squeeze, and pour. That cold glass of 100 percent liquid sunshine on the breakfast table is the product of a sophisticated industrial juice complex. Satellite imagery, complicated data algorithms, even a juice pipeline are all part of the recipe. “You take Mother Nature and standardize it,” says Jim Horrisberger, director of procurement at Coke’s huge Auburndale (Fla.) juice packaging plant. “Mother Nature doesn’t like to be standardized.”

At the core of Coke’s plan in the U.S. is 100 percent not-from-concentrate OJ, for which consumers are willing to pay as much as a 25 percent premium. Yet producing the beverage is far more complicated than bottling soft drinks. Juice production is full of variables, from weather to regional consumer preference, and Coke is trying to manage each from grove to glass

It requires analyzing up to 1 quintillion decision variables to consistently deliver the optimal blend, despite the whims of Mother Nature.”
Quote:
The Black Book model includes detailed data about the myriad flavors—more than 600 in all—that make up an orange, and consumer preferences. Those data are matched to a profile detailing acidity, sweetness, and other attributes of each batch of raw juice. The algorithm then tells Coke how to blend batches to replicate a certain taste and consistency, right down to pulp content. Another part of Black Book incorporates external factors such as weather patterns, expected crop yields, and cost pressures. This helps Coke plan so that supplies will be on hand as far ahead as 15 months. “If we have a hurricane or a freeze,” Bippert says, “we can quickly replan the business in 5 or 10 minutes just because we’ve mathematically modeled it.”
Link
Do you think there is anything wrong with this?
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:12 AM   #2
obeygiant
macrumors 68040
 
obeygiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Michigan
That's really interesting but I can't see anything wrong with this. How else would they keep up with demand of the millions who drink OJ?
obeygiant is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:14 AM   #3
eric/
Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ohio, United States
Quote:
Originally Posted by obeygiant View Post
That's really interesting but I can't see anything wrong with this. How else would they keep up with demand of the millions who drink OJ?
Sorry, I was trying to think of a good way to get a discussion about the topic going and couldn't really
eric/ is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 11:49 AM   #4
thekev
macrumors 603
 
thekev's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
I doubt anyone would be surprised that it's heavily processed. I mostly avoid juice. The same goes for soft drinks. Juice is mostly sugar without a lot of the nutritional benefit you'd receive if it was consumed as fruit. Especially with skinned fruits, you have a certain amount of soluble fiber content, so the sugar isn't absorbed quickly. The other problem is that not all vitamins that you'd expect to receive are extremely stable. I'm a little surprised by the growth.
__________________
world's largest manufacturer of tin foil hats, none of that aluminum foil crap.
thekev is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:40 PM   #5
elistan
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denver/Boulder, CO
I dislike the loss of taste variety. I get bored eating or drinking the same thing all the time.

I like the efficiencies and quality control.

I'm unsure about the up-to-eight-months of storage bit.
elistan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:43 PM   #6
niuniu
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: A man of the people. The right sort of people.
Stopped drinking fresh juice over a year ago. Just water constantly throughout the day now, and some cheap concentrate stuff which I use to flavour water when I'm doing something outdoors.
niuniu is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 01:48 PM   #7
Technarchy
macrumors 601
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Does it taste good and can I afford it?

That's really my only concern.
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."
Technarchy is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 02:48 PM   #8
bradl
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
On the whole, what would concern me is the storing of the juice for up to 8 months, which would require pasteurization. While doing that for the right flavour in the juice blend, you sacrifice the vitamins and minerals that would come from the juice blend, as while the pasteurization (heat) process destroys harmful pathogens, it also destroys those nutrients that the body needs.

The other issue is the 'fiber optics' pipeline that the juice flows through for that mile. Unless that pipeline is treated or is glass coated, that juice is acidic, and acidic contents leech off of whatever it comes in contact with, taking in the chemicals it binds comes into contact with. Imagine how much of those contacts get absorbed into the juice over that mile. Really makes you wonder about how this is really blended and created.

If the company were smart, they'd vacuum freeze it then transport it. Yes, it is more expensive, but they would save the nutrients and have a much better and healthier tasting product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Does it taste good and can I afford it?

That's really my only concern.
Good tasting does not always mean good for you. Case in point: White Bread. But if you want it, as bad as the contents may be, knock yourself out. But if you get sick from it, don't expect us to subsidize your healthcare, because according to the Reds, that is Universal Healthcare, and that would just be wrong.

BL.
bradl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 03:30 PM   #9
elistan
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denver/Boulder, CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
The other issue is the 'fiber optics' pipeline that the juice flows through for that mile. Unless that pipeline is treated or is glass coated, that juice is acidic, and acidic contents leech off of whatever it comes in contact with, taking in the chemicals it binds comes into contact with. Imagine how much of those contacts get absorbed into the juice over that mile. Really makes you wonder about how this is really blended and created.
Uhh, the fiber optics bit is just a network link. Like a very long CAT-6 Ethernet cable. Fiber is necessary because copper can't carry the network signal that far.

Also, even with diminished nutrition (which isn't much, based on a quick search) I'd rather have pasteurized product than not.
elistan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 03:57 PM   #10
bradl
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post
Uhh, the fiber optics bit is just a network link. Like a very long CAT-6 Ethernet cable. Fiber is necessary because copper can't carry the network signal that far.
My bad. I misread. Initially it looks like they were transferring the whole entire thing down a fiber optic-type pipe. As a sysadmin, I know what it is, and should have known better or read better. mea culpa. Still, the point stands on the pipe. Unless they are doing some routine cleaning, corrosion could still occur, so I'd hope that they would have the right protections against such a thing.

Quote:
Also, even with diminished nutrition (which isn't much, based on a quick search) I'd rather have pasteurized product than not.
Fair enough, as that is what you may like. But the problem would still exist. The difference here is that with pastuerization, you'd still need to drink more of it to get the nutrients that would be there without pastuerization.

Note: what I meant by freezing would not be frozen juice from concentrate, that is entirely not what I was alluding to. But vacuum freezing it, getting it to the bottling plant, thawing it out into bottles (not plastic; see aforementioned leeching) would get you the best product with the nutrients needed.

BL.
bradl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:15 PM   #11
hulugu
macrumors 68000
 
hulugu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: the faraway towns
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Does it taste good and can I afford it?

That's really my only concern.
That's a pretty short list.

I'd add, is it good for me? Or, more complexly, are there health effects from drinking it or a lack of benefits? Is it higher in sugar or HFS? Does this process change the chemical makeup?

And, is this sustainable? How much energy are we putting in to get Coca-Cola to make orange juice when it's possible to get a couple of oranges from a nearby grove and smash 'em myself?
__________________
I look like a soldier; I feel like a thief
hulugu is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:21 PM   #12
VulchR
macrumors 68000
 
VulchR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Scotland
IMO if their process works and is safe, I'm not too bothered. One of my friends in graduate school was a chemical engineer and suffice it to say the OJ process described in the OP's post is organic compared to the production of Cheez Whiz.
__________________
My first was a Mac+. Now I own an iPhone with 3.5x the pixels, a colour display, WiFi, 512x the RAM, >1500x the data storage, and 100x the speed. And it fits in the palm of my hand.
VulchR is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:25 PM   #13
rdowns
macrumors Penryn
 
rdowns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by VulchR View Post
IMO if their process works and is safe, I'm not too bothered. One of my friends in graduate school was a chemical engineer and suffice it to say the OJ process described in the OP's post is organic compared to the production of Cheez Whiz.

True, but I'd expect processed cheese to have all kinds of **** in it. Orange Juice, not so much.
rdowns is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 04:39 PM   #14
elistan
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Denver/Boulder, CO
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradl View Post
My bad. I misread. Initially it looks like they were transferring the whole entire thing down a fiber optic-type pipe. As a sysadmin, I know what it is, and should have known better or read better. mea culpa. Still, the point stands on the pipe. Unless they are doing some routine cleaning, corrosion could still occur, so I'd hope that they would have the right protections against such a thing.
Yeah, the drawing isn't too clear.

Regarding the pipeline - food products have to be handled in very specific ways. Ever see a beer brewery, winery, cheese plant, or basically any other sort of food processing facility? Stainless steel galore. With regular cleanings. And regular testing. (There can still be issues due to imcompetence or fraud of course, but the pipeline itself isn't an issue.)

Quote:
Fair enough, as that is what you may like. But the problem would still exist. The difference here is that with pastuerization, you'd still need to drink more of it to get the nutrients that would be there without pastuerization.
One article I found was on the Livestrong site - they said that while vitamin C is diminished, a glass of OJ will still pretty much give you your RDA. Other nutrients aren't impacted.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
True, but I'd expect processed cheese to have all kinds of **** in it. Orange Juice, not so much.
That's the point - the OJ described above doesn't have any kinds of **** in it. It has OJ, and that's it.
elistan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:30 PM   #15
steve knight
macrumors 65816
 
steve knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post
I dislike the loss of taste variety. I get bored eating or drinking the same thing all the time.

I like the efficiencies and quality control.
Most Americans don't agree when you think fast food and processed foods.
watched a how it is made and they said a year storage i think. So it is more canned orange juice then anything else.
__________________
CNCrouting.biz
steve knight is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:04 PM   #16
Technarchy
macrumors 601
 
Technarchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulugu View Post
That's a pretty short list.

I'd add, is it good for me? Or, more complexly, are there health effects from drinking it or a lack of benefits? Is it higher in sugar or HFS? Does this process change the chemical makeup?
Not a concern. If I can live off MRE's for several years and not die a little OJ is good to go.

Though, I don't even like OJ that much. Too acidic. I prefer lighter juices.
__________________
Steve Jobs, January 9th 2007, 10:44am: "We filed for over 200 patents for all the inventions in iPhone and we intend to protect them."
Technarchy is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 1, 2013, 07:09 PM   #17
JohnLT13
macrumors 6502a
 
JohnLT13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Boston (aka Red Sox Nation)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Does it taste good and can I afford it?

That's really my only concern.
I agree. But as I dont drink a lot of it, one 8oz glass a week maybe. Any benefits or risks associated with it does not concern me at all. OJ tastes good with sunday morning breakfast.
JohnLT13 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 2, 2013, 03:32 PM   #18
Zombie Acorn
macrumors 65816
 
Zombie Acorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Get a juicer, it tastes better.
Zombie Acorn is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 2, 2013, 03:47 PM   #19
bradl
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Get a juicer, it tastes better.
I agree.

Though I'll see you the juicer and raise you with growing your own oranges then juicing them.

BL.
bradl is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Feb 2, 2013, 04:09 PM   #20
MacNut
macrumors P6
 
MacNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: CT
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Get a juicer, it tastes better.
Screw that, get one of these.
Thumb resize.
__________________
The thoughts in my head are rated TV-MA. Viewer discretion is advised.
Now batting, Number 2 Derek Jeter, Number 2
MacNut is online now   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Similar Threads
thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
engineering reasons for bezels? spinedoc77 iPhone 10 Sep 3, 2013 02:25 PM
Is a MacAir recommended for Engineering? Shadow-Man4 MacBook Air 9 Aug 26, 2013 04:48 PM
I spilled orange juice over my MacBook AnrBjotk MacBook Pro 59 Apr 7, 2013 11:11 PM
Which MBP for an engineering student? jcr440 MacBook Pro 16 Jun 20, 2012 05:06 AM

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 PM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC