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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:16 PM   #51
Brounmoney
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There is no problem; they just had a record quarter. The only problem is for geeks, but iOS has never been for the enthusiast!



People on forums, GEEKS, are getting tired of iOS in its' current state, but most people don't care. That's why Apple just had a record quarter.
I think with a revamp they could support both. Great quarter or not. Just my opinion.

Do you think those record sales will keep coming with this "slow and steady" approach. Cause it seems sales already have slowed for the 5. I know just speculation, but I kind of think there might be something to it.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:21 PM   #52
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I think with a revamp they could support both. Great quarter or not. Just my opinion.

Do you think those record sales will keep coming with this "slow and steady" approach. Cause it seems sales already have slowed for the 5. I know just speculation, but I kind of think there might be something to it.
Maybe they could but, again, they don't need to change anything as they're still massively successful with what they're currently doing

Why does it seem that sales have slowed? They have had the best quarter and sold more than any other iPhone in the same amount of time.

People keep on saying things like this but the FACTS completely contradict what is being said. I don't get it.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:27 PM   #53
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Maybe they could but, again, they don't need to change anything as they're still massively successful with what they're currently doing

Why does it seem that sales have slowed? They have had the best quarter and sold more than any other iPhone in the same amount of time.

People keep on saying things like this but the FACTS completely contradict what is being said. I don't get it.
Have you not read that the projects may have been wrong and they have slowed production of the 5. Just what I heard.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 05:51 PM   #54
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He said it sold more than the previous iphone which I took at out selling, but which what I was saying it could still be the case. The iphone 5 sales are slowing, so who knows how it will sell. Maybe Apple will need iOS 7 to be much different to start boosting sales again. Who knows.
Wait, wait, wait. You've made a number of unwarranted assumptions on this thread. How do you know iPhone 5 sales are slowing? By all public accounts, iPhone sales are just fine and I don't think Apple breaks down iPhone sales by version. What the news releases have said is that they cut a certain component's orders for this coming quarter from a particular supplier. But that could mean MANY things, only one of which is that sales are slowing. There is nothing in their most recent earnings release to suggest that sales have been slowing at all - in fact, it's the opposite.

You mention elsewhere that iPhone 5 sales are less than projections. OK, whose? Some random analyst's? This matters immensely, if you weren't aware.

Next, for Apple to beat Samsung out in Q4 in total mobile phone sales (not just smartphone sales) is absolutely incredible whether it's for just one quarter or for the whole year. We're talking about a company, Apple, which only has THREE phone models for sale at the moment. The 4, 4S and 5. And they're not even available for sale on every major carrier. Contrast that with Samsung which has probably north of 100 different devices, many of which are free or close to free and available and on just about every carrier in the country. If you don't see how incredible it is that Apple is still winning the battle of pure sales numbers, I don't know what else to say to you.

And finally, I think the premise of your question is flawed. Apple doesn't need to reclaim marketshare because marketshare is probably the least important of the key indicators. Apple's winning by a huge margin in terms of its share of the industry's profits. We're also seeing much higher mobile browser usage rates from iOS devices compared to Android devices. This makes sense because, again, most people who get Android phones probably don't even know they have an Android phone and probably don't use their phones much differently than their old feature phones. So as you can see, pure marketshare numbers are not necessarily very significant.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:00 PM   #55
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1. Larger screen size option. And by larger I mean from 4.2'' to 4.7''. I DO NOT want a 5.5'' or 6.3'' "phone". But something bigger than 4'' is good.

2. Revamped iOS 7.

That is all.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:01 PM   #56
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Wait, wait, wait. You've made a number of unwarranted assumptions on this thread. How do you know iPhone 5 sales are slowing? By all public accounts, iPhone sales are just fine and I don't think Apple breaks down iPhone sales by version. What the news releases have said is that they cut a certain component's orders for this coming quarter from a particular supplier. But that could mean MANY things, only one of which is that sales are slowing. There is nothing in their most recent earnings release to suggest that sales have been slowing at all - in fact, it's the opposite.

You mention elsewhere that iPhone 5 sales are less than projections. OK, whose? Some random analyst's? This matters immensely, if you weren't aware.

Next, for Apple to beat Samsung out in Q4 in total mobile phone sales (not just smartphone sales) is absolutely incredible whether it's for just one quarter or for the whole year. We're talking about a company, Apple, which only has THREE phone models for sale at the moment. The 4, 4S and 5. And they're not even available for sale on every major carrier. Contrast that with Samsung which has probably north of 100 different devices, many of which are free or close to free and available and on just about every carrier in the country. If you don't see how incredible it is that Apple is still winning the battle of pure sales numbers, I don't know what else to say to you.

And finally, I think the premise of your question is flawed. Apple doesn't need to reclaim marketshare because marketshare is probably the least important of the key indicators. Apple's winning by a huge margin in terms of its share of the industry's profits. We're also seeing much higher mobile browser usage rates from iOS devices compared to Android devices. This makes sense because, again, most people who get Android phones probably don't even know they have an Android phone and probably don't use their phones much differently than their old feature phones. So as you can see, pure marketshare numbers are not necessarily very significant.
Ok. Well the spin I took away from the article suggest Apple was still behind in market share which is a fact whether you think Apple cares or not. I would think Apple cares about its market share. It seems all the tech blogs bring up the market share of people using iOS and those using android and android still leads. That is why I say Apple has some ground to make up. Apple chose to only have the iphone with iOS on and not allow it to open to other phone makers. Android decided to make it open and thus has more people use it.

I just think Apple can keep growing and that is what I was suggesting with the post.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:20 PM   #57
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There is no problem; they just had a record quarter. The only problem is for geeks, but iOS has never been for the enthusiast!



People on forums, GEEKS, are getting tired of iOS in its' current state, but most people don't care. That's why Apple just had a record quarter.

Tim Cook thinks iOS needs a new direction.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:29 PM   #58
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Ok. Well the spin I took away from the article suggest Apple was still behind in market share which is a fact whether you think Apple cares or not. I would think Apple cares about its market share. It seems all the tech blogs bring up the market share of people using iOS and those using android and android still leads. That is why I say Apple has some ground to make up. Apple chose to only have the iphone with iOS on and not allow it to open to other phone makers. Android decided to make it open and thus has more people use it.

I just think Apple can keep growing and that is what I was suggesting with the post.
Apple cares about it's profits. If it could cut somehow make it's marketshare 1/10th of what it is today, but make 10x the profit doing so, they would.

Tech blogs compare iPhone (hardware) sales to Android (software) sales, because it's the easiest way to get clicks. It makes absolutely no sense otherwise. Of course, iPhone sales alone sometimes beat the combined sales of all Android phones, so I can see why people would write about it from that perspective.

Think of it this way, if you were trying to gauge how well the 13" Macbook Pro laptop is doing, would you compare it to sales of similar laptops from Dell/HP/Asus/Sony/Samsung...etc, or would you compare it to the combination of all sales of all Windows laptops?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 06:38 PM   #59
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Apple cares about it's profits. If it could cut somehow make it's marketshare 1/10th of what it is today, but make 10x the profit doing so, they would.

Tech blogs compare iPhone (hardware) sales to Android (software) sales, because it's the easiest way to get clicks. It makes absolutely no sense otherwise. Of course, iPhone sales alone sometimes beat the combined sales of all Android phones, so I can see why people would write about it from that perspective.

Think of it this way, if you were trying to gauge how well the 13" Macbook Pro laptop is doing, would you compare it to sales of similar laptops from Dell/HP/Asus/Sony/Samsung...etc, or would you compare it to the combination of all sales of all Windows laptops?
I trust tech blog and their trusted reputation before I would trust anything you just said. Maybe you know what you are talking about, but the figures that I see on sites like gizmodo, Engadget, and the verge show market shares with android on top.

Like I said before Apple has chosen to have one single type of phone they sell an iphone nothing else. Android on the other hand has what hundreds. So yea I would compare windows to the MacBook cause again Apple has chosen to have one computer. I would also put something like Linux in that same category. You can try as you may to make Apple look better or to say tech blogs are only trying to get views, but there numbers are what they are.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 07:16 PM   #60
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I trust tech blog and their trusted reputation before I would trust anything you just said. Maybe you know what you are talking about, but the figures that I see on sites like gizmodo, Engadget, and the verge show market shares with android on top.

Like I said before Apple has chosen to have one single type of phone they sell an iphone nothing else. Android on the other hand has what hundreds. So yea I would compare windows to the MacBook cause again Apple has chosen to have one computer. I would also put something like Linux in that same category. You can try as you may to make Apple look better or to say tech blogs are only trying to get views, but there numbers are what they are.
I never said the numbers were incorrect, I said the comparison doesn't make sense.

If you want to see how well a specific company is doing in a market, you compare sales/profits of that company vs. the sales/profits of other specific companies in the same market.

If you want to know how well a specific phone is doing, you compare sales of that specific phone vs the sales of other specific phones in the same market.

It makes no sense to compare the sales of a specific phone, to the combined sales of literally thousands of different phones from over 10 different companies, and then conclude "Apple is in trouble!" when they aren't beating all the other competitors combined.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 07:20 PM   #61
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I never said the numbers were incorrect, I said the comparison doesn't make sense.

If you want to see how well a specific company is doing in a market, you compare sales/profits of that company vs. the sales/profits of other specific companies in the same market.

If you want to know how well a specific phone is doing, you compare sales of that specific phone vs the sales of other specific phones in the same market.

It makes no sense to compare the sales of a specific phone, to the combined sales of literally thousands of different phones from over 10 different companies, and then conclude "Apple is in trouble!" when they aren't beating all the other competitors combined.
I am not suggestion the Apple is in trouble, but there goal and this is what Steve Job wanted was the be more popular then android, and right now android as a whole has more of the market. That is all I am saying. Apple is doing just fine they are huge, but there is always room for improvement, and I just wanted to suggest some way to do that. Is there something wrong with that?


Where are you getting you sales numbers for the iphone 5? I can't seem to find anything suggesting they are blowing things out of the water? It seems everything is pointing to lower numbers and stock prices dropping. Could you should me some sales numbers to back your claims up? I don't want to see first weekend sales cause we all know how those did, but I keep hearing you say they are having record sales in the iphone 5.

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Old Feb 1, 2013, 08:20 PM   #62
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The next iPhone should just have 128GB storage (starting out at 32GB capacity), camera upgrades, etc. The iPhone 5 design itself is about as sleek as it could be. iOS is a completely different story.

I understand that everyone wants a radically different iOS 7, but doesn't that defeat the basic principle that iOS should be extremely easy to use? I'm not saying that iOS is perfect; in fact, it's far from it. However, Apple has an operating system that is simple to use for people of all ages. If iOS 7 has more features, a more consistent layout, no skeumorphism, and just a little eye candy, I think it'll be near-perfected.

People keep saying Android has this, Android does that..they're two completely different operating systems that fit different needs. If Windows Phone 9, iOS 7, BB10, and Android 5.0 all look and perform the same, what's in it for the consumer?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 08:30 PM   #63
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The next iPhone should just have 128GB storage (starting out at 32GB capacity), camera upgrades, etc. The iPhone 5 design itself is about as sleek as it could be. iOS is a completely different story.

I understand that everyone wants a radically different iOS 7, but doesn't that defeat the basic principle that iOS should be extremely easy to use? I'm not saying that iOS is perfect; in fact, it's far from it. However, Apple has an operating system that is simple to use for people of all ages. If iOS 7 has more features, a more consistent layout, no skeumorphism, and just a little eye candy, I think it'll be near-perfected.

People keep saying Android has this, Android does that..they're two completely different operating systems that fit different needs. If Windows Phone 9, iOS 7, BB10, and Android 5.0 all look and perform the same, what's in it for the consumer?
I agree with this. I just want a little different look that is all. Nothing crazy just a face lift.

I am not sure about 128gb. That is huge for a phone.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 08:47 PM   #64
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Just add a better camera, faster processor, 128GB model. The normal spec bump. Make iOS 7 a more significant update than iOS 6 was but nothing too radical that totally changes the OS. That's an easy way to alienate and frustrate longtime users.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 09:19 PM   #65
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iOS doesn't need a revamp or an overhaul like others have suggested.

It needs to add more functionality. Things that should've been there 1 or 2 years ago that other phones have, even phones way before the iPhone.

Maybe a bit of a facelift but don't change the whole look of it. Make it fresh but keeping the simplicity and feel of iOS.

A section for themes in the App Store would be nice for those who like that stuff.

What it doesn't need to do its change for the sake of change just to please some and piss off a whole lot more.
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:23 PM   #66
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Since so many people want to say keep iOS the same for the most part, why not add some customization if you want it. I think it would be cool like someone suggested have a setting for themes that way we could make it look like we wanted. Why not? If you want to change it up a little go for it. If you like the way Apple has it as the default then go for it. What harm would that be?
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Old Feb 1, 2013, 10:34 PM   #67
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Tim Cook thinks iOS needs a new direction.
This is in relation to making a cheaper phone to compete with cheap Samsung phones in Asia. Hence why they are working on a cheap plastic iphone.

And in regards to iOS changes, I find iOS infinitely faster, smoother and just all around easier to use from when I had a droid. Someone was complaining about airplay, and all I have to say is probably 90% of users don't use this feature..

It's hard to say what will be the next feature to hook people to upgrade their device whether it be s3 to s4 or i5 to i5S. Both of these phones already seem to operate pretty fast so it's hard to say what they can do next to get people to upgrade to the next device.

Historically the killer features that got people to switch in the past from iPhone devices goes as:

i4 to i4S = they added Siri, supposedly an awesome new feature
i4S to i5 = including LTE. This feature is night and day if you are looking at 4s to i5, and I don't understand when people complain nothing changed. It's like being on wifi ALL the time. I get 30mb/s which is faster than my wifi at home.

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Old Feb 2, 2013, 04:22 AM   #68
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It makes no sense to compare the sales of a specific phone, to the combined sales of literally thousands of different phones from over 10 different companies, and then conclude "Apple is in trouble!" when they aren't beating all the other competitors combined.
Although that does show how much of a high regard some people hold Apple, even if they don't admit it
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:10 AM   #69
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Although that does show how much of a high regard some people hold Apple, even if they don't admit it
Sure it does. People love Apple. I just think you guys have stated some claims about Apple with no proof. The last quarter that sales numbers have come out for was the 3rd of 2012 and the s3 won that quarter taking out the 4s. Now I know as well as anyone that had something to do with the iphone 5 about to come out. The problem I have with all these claims you guys have about "it is amazing what Apple has done only having 4 phones compared to Samsung's 100" is the sales numbers over the last year for the s3 and the iPhone 4S seemed very close to me. I think that says a lot too. I like to look at the individual phones as well as the whole line up. The individual sales seems to tell just a little different story.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:21 AM   #70
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Sure it does. People love Apple. I just think you guys have stated some claims about Apple with no proof. The last quarter that sales numbers have come out for was the 3rd of 2012 and the s3 won that quarter taking out the 4s. Now I know as well as anyone that had something to do with the iphone 5 about to come out. The problem I have with all these claims you guys have about "it is amazing what Apple has done only having 4 phones compared to Samsung's 100" is the sales numbers over the last year for the s3 and the iPhone 4S seemed very close to me. I think that says a lot too. I like to look at the individual phones as well as the whole line up. The individual sales seems to tell just a little different story.
http://www.imore.com/did-galaxy-s3-o...one-4s-q3-2012

Did Samsung "outship" or "outsell" the iPhone in Q3 2012?
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:35 AM   #71
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http://www.imore.com/did-galaxy-s3-o...one-4s-q3-2012

Did Samsung "outship" or "outsell" the iPhone in Q3 2012?
Ok so that is one site saying that "maybe" that did not happen right? There are about 20 that say the Samsung did why would they do that? Also either way this makes me think the race is a lot closer than you or many people want to admit. It seems by this is could go either for sales number right? That means numbers are within hundreds of thousands of each other. I call that close, not Apple dominating the competition. I don't know maybe its just me and the tech blogs.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:42 AM   #72
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Ok so that is one site saying that "maybe" that did not happen right? There are about 20 that say the Samsung did why would they do that? Also either way this makes me think the race is a lot closer than you or many people want to admit. It seems by this is could go either for sales number right? That means numbers are within hundreds of thousands of each other. I call that close, not Apple dominating the competition. I don't know maybe its just me and the tech blogs.
A lot of tech sites just copy/paste news rather than actually examine and question the data.

It makes a fair point; the title of the news was that the S3 outsold the iPhone, but the remainder of the press release spoke about the number of devices shipped, not sold. That's very misleading to say that they SOLD the most, when in fact they probably didn't. Devices shipped would include the amount they sent out as replacements and stuff too.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:49 AM   #73
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Unfortunately, the OP used sales as the metric in this thread.
True, but so do legions of iFans. It's their defacto defense against any claims of Android success.

If the topic turns to performance & specs, iFans say that doesn't matter, Apples all about the experience.

If Apple has a spec lead as in Retina, suddenly the time tested Apple Hypocrisy appears, to claim their specs matter & they win.

iFans have excuses for everything, most supplied by Apples worn old refrains.

Push it hard enough and they drag out comments & excuses like "Steve" would never have allowed this.

It's good to be Apple with its cult like fan base.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 08:54 AM   #74
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True, but so do legions of iFans. It's their defacto defense against any claims of Android success.

If the topic turns to performance & specs, iFans say that doesn't matter, Apples all about the experience.

If Apple has a spec lead as in Retina, suddenly the time tested Apple Hypocrisy appears, to claim their specs matter & they win.

iFans have excuses for everything, most supplied by Apples worn old refrains.

Push it hard enough and they drag out comments & excuses like "Steve" would never have allowed this.

It's good to be Apple with its cult like fan base.
"iFans" are not a single entity.

This means that one person might say that Retina doesn't matter, whereas another might say it does. The first person would argue that specs don't matter, whereas the second might then use that spec in arguments.

People who like the same products are allowed to have different opinions.
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Old Feb 2, 2013, 09:02 AM   #75
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A lot of tech sites just copy/paste news rather than actually examine and question the data.

It makes a fair point; the title of the news was that the S3 outsold the iPhone, but the remainder of the press release spoke about the number of devices shipped, not sold. That's very misleading to say that they SOLD the most, when in fact they probably didn't. Devices shipped would include the amount they sent out as replacements and stuff too.
Ok well I guess we really don't know. Someone stated before Apple does not release its numbers, and this article says Samsung does not either so I guess we have no idea. My original post was talking about all of Samsung and Apple which I guess makes things grey not white and black. So I think if we look at just one phone against the other things become more clear and a lot closer. Sure Apple has record launch sales each year which leads to great sales, but I think the s3 has gained power over the year with more and more people hearing and trying it out. I think Samsung and android have come a long away over the past 2 or 3 years, and it is starting to show. That is why I think Apple better starting thinking about the future rather than the next year and half of slowly adding new features to the iPhone. By these number it looks like that might not be a plan that is going to keep you on top.

----------

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Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
True, but so do legions of iFans. It's their defacto defense against any claims of Android success.

If the topic turns to performance & specs, iFans say that doesn't matter, Apples all about the experience.

If Apple has a spec lead as in Retina, suddenly the time tested Apple Hypocrisy appears, to claim their specs matter & they win.

iFans have excuses for everything, most supplied by Apples worn old refrains.

Push it hard enough and they drag out comments & excuses like "Steve" would never have allowed this.

It's good to be Apple with its cult like fan base.
I tried this argument in another thread it does not work, and it just cause problems. Let them believe what they want to believe. I am more in the middle and see our great ios and android are. One is stronger in areas that the other is not.
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