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Old Feb 3, 2013, 03:39 AM   #1
Happybunny
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Navy SEAL Chris Kyle "American Sniper." Shot and killed.

I know yet another gun thread.

GLEN ROSE, Texas (AP) — A Texas sheriff has told local newspapers that author and former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle has been fatally shot along with another man on a gun range.
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram and Stephenville Empire-Tribune report that Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant says the 38-year-old Kyle and a second man were found dead Saturday afternoon at Rough Creek Lodge's shooting range west of Glen Rose.
The Star-Telegram reports that witnesses told sheriff's investigators a gunman opened fire on the men, then fled in a pickup truck belonging to one of the victims. Glen Rose is about an hour southwest of Fort Worth.
The newspapers say a 25-year-old man was later taken into custody in Lancaster, southeast of Dallas. The motive is unclear.
Kyle wrote the best-selling book, "American Sniper."

This is a man who was steeped in the use of firearms, and even he wasn't safe.
To all the people who say that carrying more weapons is the answer, if he couldn't protect himself on a firing range, what chances do you have.
NRA would say armed guards on every firing range, like the schools.

I also have heard on the news unconfirmed that the shooter was an ex military with ptsd.

It's time that America gave returning service people proper help to adjust to civilian life.




http://www.wfaa.com/news/entertainment/189548811.html
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 03:57 AM   #2
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Location: A man of the people. The right sort of people.
And armed guards at parks too. Shopping centres (mall?) and I guess everywhere else by the NRA's logic
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 04:06 AM   #3
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RIP true American hero.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 04:06 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Happybunny View Post
To all the people who say that carrying more weapons is the answer, if he couldn't protect himself on a firing range, what chances do you have.
NRA would say armed guards on every firing range, like the schools
The answer is obvious - each US citizen gets their own armed guard. Otherwise they'll never be safe from all the rapist and murderers who apparently roam freely. It's also just as obvious that if anyone attempts to take away the guns the government will then immediately enslave everyone. How can you not see this?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 05:42 AM   #5
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Wow I literally finished his book just last week, what an extraordinary man!
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:09 AM   #6
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I also have heard on the news unconfirmed that the shooter was an ex military with ptsd.

It's time that America gave returning service people proper help to adjust to civilian life.
Reports are confirmed. Shooter was an ex-service member who was undergoing some sort of therapy session and had an "episode" of some type.

What a tragedy.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 06:09 AM   #7
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Yet they say Americans don't do irony.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 07:22 AM   #8
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A tragedy about Kyle.

You know, it's not my imagination; since Newtown and the reaction to it, the media have exploded with stories about shootings, both purposeful and accidental.

And for once, I'm glad of it and I'm not calling it media sensationalism or overreaction. Because it seems that until Newtown, shootings were so commonplace that we didn't even bother reporting on them in the national news. Shootings were reported primarily in our local newspapers, and few of us knew how frequently they were happening all over the country.

Now we know. And I think we need to have our noses rubbed in this to understand how prevalent gun violence is.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 07:24 AM   #9
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I think, yet again, there is a clear failure of the government. Why does somebody with known PTSD, receiving treatment, have a firearm?

Last edited by stridemat; Feb 3, 2013 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Removed quote
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 07:27 AM   #10
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Open.

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Old Feb 3, 2013, 09:11 AM   #11
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I think that this event does bring home the fact that these shootings can happen anywhere, and that any one can be the target.
A six year old in a classroom or an ex SEAL on a firing range.

In other threads there were always people who would say if they hadn't had gun free zone signs up it all would have been different. I would say that a gun range was not the place that you would take any notice of someone with a gun.

There would also be people who would say if the shooter had known there could be other people carrying firearms it would have been different. It just goes to show that even if there are other people around, the shooter can still act and flee the scene.

There would also have been people who would have said all you need is more training and awareness of danger. Here was a man who gave instruction to police and others, and yet he was caught unawares.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 09:17 AM   #12
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I know we don't have all the details here but can someone explain the logic of taking someone with PTSD to a firing range? Seems to me it's like taking an alcoholic to a bar.

Wow, just read he sells merchandise at his website with "Violence does solve problems" on the items.

Last edited by rdowns; Feb 3, 2013 at 09:48 AM. Reason: typo
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 09:38 AM   #13
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So, Mr. LaPierre, I'm sure at the gun range, there were plenty of good guys with a gun. Why didn't they stop a bad guy with a gun?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 09:57 AM   #14
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So, Mr. LaPierre, I'm sure at the gun range, there were plenty of good guys with a gun. Why didn't they stop a bad guy with a gun?
Well how many were at the gun range? Were they just standing next to him and he opened fired?

I think these are important details that we need to know, before asking why he wasn't stopped.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:30 AM   #15
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I think, yet again, there is a clear failure of the government. Why does somebody with known PTSD, receiving treatment, have a firearm?
Are you (or the rest of the nation ready to confiscate the guns from every vet (or civilian) who has suffered from PTSD?

What level of PSTD does a person have to have to be denied the ability to own a firearm?

Who determines that level?

Who determines who has PSTD?

Who finds and tests the people who meet that standard?

This is the problem with the argument that guns are not the problem, that we just need to keep them out of the hands of the people who can't handle them due to psychological reasons.

The fix is more complex and invasive than they seem to believe.

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Wow, just read he sells merchandise at his website with "Violence does solve problems" on the items.
Yup. True American hero.

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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:33 AM   #16
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Are you (or the rest of the nation ready to confiscate the guns from every vet (or civilian) who has suffered from PTSD?

What level of PSTD does a person have to have to be denied the ability to own a firearm?

Who determines that level?

Who determines who has PSTD?

Who finds and tests the people who meet that standard?
Well, in my case it's pretty clear. I have/had insomnia related to the hours I worked while I was deployed. They called it PTSD. I didn't go around kicking doors, so it's pretty intuitive. I turned down benefits, even.

And the nation probably won't, but we can put a hold on new sales.

Quote:
Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
This is the problem with the argument that guns are not the problem, that we just need to keep them out of the hands of the people who can't handle them due to psychological reasons.

The fix is more complex and invasive than they seem to believe.
I agree the fix is more complex, definitely. But I think that fix doesn't start with just banning guns or restricting them more than they are now.

It's also a lot more complex than saying that guns are the problem, when there is ample evidence that not everybody who buys a gun, not even a noteworthy percent, ever do anything bad or wrong with their weapons.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:36 AM   #17
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Wow, I've always been a firm believer in owning a firearm to protect yourself, and a firm believer in the 2nd amendment. I still do, that'll never change...but these crazy folks going and doing all these shooting are making it harder and harder for me to stand my ground against society. Especially when society does such a good job of holding on to gun related deaths. I really don't like calling a dear veteran a "crazy person" because of his brave dedication to country, but a person with PTSD should not have a firearm readily available.

RIP Chris Kyle
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:36 AM   #18
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I know we don't have all the details here but can someone explain the logic of taking someone with PTSD to a firing range? Seems to me it's like taking an alcoholic to a bar.

Wow, just read he sells merchandise at his website with "Violence does solve problems" on the items.
There simply is not enough information to make any conclusions about anything.

One thing that seems apparent, or is at least a strong rumor is that the person who did the killing may have been undergoing some kind of "shooting therapy". What exactly that entails is anyones guess.

As a side note, this is the third death of someone who is prominent in the firearms world.

The first was Keith Ratliff a producer and firearms specialist with "FPS Russia"..murdered in cold blood..

The second was John Noveske, founder of Noveske Rifleworks, killed in a car accident.

Now Chris Kyle.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:38 AM   #19
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This is the current AP story…

Quote:
Haschel said Erath County Sheriff's deputies responded to a call about a shooting at the Rough Creek Lodge, west of Glen Rose, at about 5:30 p.m. Saturday. Police found the bodies of Kyle, 38, and Chad Littlefield, 35, at the shooting range. Glen Rose is about 50 miles southwest of Fort Worth.

Police said Routh opened fire on Kyle and Littlefield around 3:30 p.m. Saturday, then fled in a Ford pickup truck. At about 8 p.m., Routh arrived at his home in Lancaster, about 17 miles southeast of Dallas. Police arrested him after a brief pursuit and took him to the Lancaster Police Department.
Something seems off to me. Routh opened fire at 3:30. Police responded to call at 5:30. Why such a delay in calling police?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:39 AM   #20
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This is the current AP story…



Something seems off to me. Routh opened fire at 3:30. Police responded to call at 5:30. Why such a delay in calling police?
Maybe they were the only 3 there, and bodies were found?

Or the police were just too busy
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:40 AM   #21
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He's going to have to give St Peter a pretty good argument to get through those gates. Either that or take him out with 7.62 at 500 yards and scale them.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:40 AM   #22
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Well how many were at the gun range? Were they just standing next to him and he opened fired?

I think these are important details that we need to know, before asking why he wasn't stopped.
story reports witnesses at scene. In my experience people at ranges have guns, these people did not stop a bad guy with a gun. Even if they did fire and and kill the suspect two innocents would still be dead. Kinda defeats the theory of good guys with guns can stop bad guys.

You question the government in failing to recognize a threat, but then proclaim you don't think the government is right in their other decisions.
Your posts are nothing short of hypocritical.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:41 AM   #23
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I know we don't have all the details here but can someone explain the logic of taking someone with PTSD to a firing range? Seems to me it's like taking an alcoholic to a bar.

Wow, just read he sells merchandise at his website with "Violence does solve problems" on the items.
Most likely in reference to a quote from another SEAL.

Quote:
Following the successful rescue mission by Navy SEALs of freighter Captain Richard Phillips on Easter morning, 2009, Ryan Job was asked by a local reporter if he thought using Navy SEALs against Somali pirates was overkill. His response was, "despite what your mamma told you, violence does solve problems." Ryan Job died in September of that year following complications during reconstructive surgery.
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:41 AM   #24
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story reports witnesses at scene. In my experience people at ranges have guns, these people did not stop a bad guy with a gun. Even if they did fire and and kill the suspect two innocents would still be dead. Kinda defeats the theory of good guys with guns can stop bad guys.
Well I don't think one incident proves all cases, do you?

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You question the government in failing to recognize a threat, but then proclaim you don't think the government is right in their other decisions.
Your posts are nothing short of hypocritical.
Where did I say that anywhere in this thread?
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Old Feb 3, 2013, 10:42 AM   #25
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Maybe they were the only 3 there, and bodies were found?

I think that you are wrong about that.

GLEN ROSE, Texas (AP) — A Texas sheriff has told local newspapers that author and former Navy SEAL Chris Kyle has been fatally shot along with another man on a gun range.
The Fort Worth Star-Telegram and Stephenville Empire-Tribune report that Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant says the 38-year-old Kyle and a second man were found dead Saturday afternoon at Rough Creek Lodge's shooting range west of Glen Rose.
The Star-Telegram reports that witnesses told sheriff's investigators a gunman opened fire on the men, then fled in a pickup truck belonging to one of the victims. Glen Rose is about an hour southwest of Fort Worth.
The newspapers say a 25-year-old man was later taken into custody in Lancaster, southeast of Dallas. The motive is unclear.
Kyle wrote the best-selling book, "American Sniper."

This is from the media bulletin.
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