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Old Feb 3, 2013, 08:49 PM   #26
Liquorpuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlCKB0Y View Post
No, you don't. The 64GB MBA Air I bought was using not even close to the 40GB used on the Pro. (think less than half this).

If you're talking about starting fresh - A clean install of Mountain Lion (6-7GB) consumes less than half the diskspace of Windows 8, so how is your scenario possible?
You're never gonna get it down to 6-7 GB, but you can get it under 20 pretty easily

http://pocketnow.com/2013/01/30/how-...#disqus_thread

Personally I think they should've just made the 128 GB version the only model. It's a high end device geared toward power users that will probably be picking up that version anyway

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris2k5 View Post
Lol the Surface Pro is a fail. It is $300-$400 too expensive compared to tablets.

Why would anyone buy a Surface Pro for the same price as a MBA?!?!
It's a converged device - tablet slash ultrabook slash with an integrated wacom. Plus access to two software ecosystems - mobile and desktop

It's shortsighted to compare it to the MBA or to iPad. It's as if the smartphone is coming out and people are going, a PDA costs the same but has a better battery, or it's $300-400 too expensive compared to my feature phone. It's a brand new product space that'll disrupt both markets
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 01:38 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by MacRumorUser View Post
For the same audience that would buy this...
Image
http://www.modbook.com/modbookpro


Because its a ultrabook hardware you can do everything on it that you can a MBA but with ability to use it as a tablet form factor as well.

It's just choice, some folks actually like choice.


And it's much cheaper thn a modbook pro by a considerable margin. $899-999 versus $2500
In order to legally sell the modbook, that company buys Apple MacBook Pro's and transforms them into the ModBook. That's why they are so expensive.

----------

Also can someone with a Surface or Surface Pro comment on reading and web browsing in portrait mode? I'm curious since I've never seen it used that way in MS commercials or any product reviews.

I use my iPad in portrait 95% of the time overall, and 100% when reading books or web browsing.

I'm just curious how Windows 8 on tablets handles this usage pattern.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:15 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by mouser45 View Post
Over 3x as fast.


Not too surprising considering what's inside. Still no battery benchmarks out yet.


Anyone planning on getting one? Seems like an intriguing concept--will probably wait for 2nd gen, but very tempting.
For the price, you're solidly in ultrabook territory, especially after adding the upgraded keyboard. No reason to spend the same money for a compromised device.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinedoc77 View Post
You guys have to stop with this bit of misinformation. You will probably have closer to 45+ gb free after you factor in the recovery partition and office trial. On the surface (no pun intended) it is true this is what the surface pro ships with, but once again only because they include the recovery partition and office trial. You get EXACTLY the free space you do on any other desktop or laptop, including the macbook air for example.

I know the point you are trying to make, ipad storage versus a full computer storage, no offense intended but it is just starting to grate on my nerves how the media has jumped all over this when it's just distorting something into a catchy headline.
Your analysis might have held water if you'd stopped at Windows 8 Ultrabooks, but by adding the Macbook Air to it, you lost credibility.

Why? the Macbook Air doesn't come pre-loaded with a trial version of Office.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zwhaler View Post
Lol, 2TB microSD
That will be the same year we all get our Borg implants.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by appletoandroid View Post
This is why Apple's tablet marketshare continues to plummet. Their competitors continue to innovate and provide us with cutting edge products while Apple stays in the past continually trying to resell the original iPad and iPhone. Wouldn't be shocked to see them take a loss this year.
Apple's world tablet marketshare is only slightly shrinking as more and more SKUs for Android tablets show up for sale. 43.6% still owns the tablet space, my friend, especially contrasted to Samsung's poor second place showing at 15.1%.

Check out IDC's latest report here http://www.idc.com/getdoc.jsp?contai...3#.UQ-yL6UfrHg

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post
You're never gonna get it down to 6-7 GB, but you can get it under 20 pretty easily

http://pocketnow.com/2013/01/30/how-...#disqus_thread

Personally I think they should've just made the 128 GB version the only model. It's a high end device geared toward power users that will probably be picking up that version anyway



It's a converged device - tablet slash ultrabook slash with an integrated wacom. Plus access to two software ecosystems - mobile and desktop

It's shortsighted to compare it to the MBA or to iPad. It's as if the smartphone is coming out and people are going, a PDA costs the same but has a better battery, or it's $300-400 too expensive compared to my feature phone. It's a brand new product space that'll disrupt both markets
Close. It's a compromised product that will disrupt Microsoft.

Ballmer just needs to leave.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:17 AM   #29
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Regarding the issue of usable storage space on the Surface; there were similar complaints about the Lenovo Yoga. Lenovo released a utility that eliminates some of the partitions and freed up about 20GB. The utility is easy to use (just click on a link), so the general public should have no problem running it.

When I purchased my Yoga a couple months after it was released, Lenovo had already removed the extra partitions. After I installed all my MS software (Paint Shop Pro, MS Office, Tiger Woods PGA, etc) and installed a bunch of Windows 8 apps, I have about 45GB of free space on the C drive.
BTW - The Yoga has two user accessible SSD slots, so the 128GB capacity can be easily upgraded to 512GB (2x256GB).

I also purchased a 128GB (45MB/sec) SDXC card and transferred about 80GBs of pictures and music to it. The Yoga is now my photo editor PC and by the time I use up the remaining ~ 46GB of storage, the 256GB cards should be out. I have semi-retired my 15" 2012 cMBP, iPad 3, and Acer PC.

So people who purchase the Surface should be able to do the same.

Last edited by VFC; Feb 4, 2013 at 07:37 AM.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:13 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by appletoandroid View Post
This is why Apple's tablet marketshare continues to plummet. Their competitors continue to innovate and provide us with cutting edge products while Apple stays in the past continually trying to resell the original iPad and iPhone. Wouldn't be shocked to see them take a loss this year.
Wow, it's one thing to have a preference for Android, but don't let it cloud your reality. I believe some call it a "reality distortion field" and it was used disparagingly towards Apple fans so I think it probably applies both ways.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:05 AM   #31
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Core i5 powered laptop with desktop operating system is faster than a mobile OS with a mobile processor? How shocking. Please tell me more OP!

That being said, Geek bench score is good. My friend's new Yoga never went between 2300-4200 depending on when I did it. This is technically more powerful than a Yoga
T
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 10:23 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irishman View Post

Your analysis might have held water if you'd stopped at Windows 8 Ultrabooks, but by adding the Macbook Air to it, you lost credibility.

Why? the Macbook Air doesn't come pre-loaded with a trial version of Office.
That makes no sense and is completely besides my point. My analysis doesn't need to hold water, it's factual and you can't dispute facts and numbers. Certainly we can dispute Microsofts marketing, whether it was a mistake to sell them with an office trial and the recovery partition taking up space, or if windows is a bloated OS, but I'm not debating any of those points and in fact I agree with all of them.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 12:38 PM   #33
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... Geek bench score is good. My friend's new Yoga never went between 2300-4200 depending on when I did it. This is technically more powerful than a Yoga
T
The average Geekbench results for the i5-3317U version of the Yoga is around 5,000. Your friends Yoga may have some background tasks running.

Last edited by VFC; Feb 4, 2013 at 12:44 PM.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 01:17 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post

It's shortsighted to compare it to the MBA or to iPad. It's as if the smartphone is coming out and people are going, a PDA costs the same but has a better battery, or it's $300-400 too expensive compared to my feature phone. It's a brand new product space that'll disrupt both markets
I was hoping someone would make a sane comment. It could grab sales from either. According to the spec sheet it weighs 2 pounds. With the keyboard detached, it's probably reasonably comfortable as a tablet. I guess it comes down to whether you have a stable surface and want to type at the time. It has usb3 and displayport. The significance with usb3 is that it helps machines like this function as standalone devices. You should be able to back up to external devices or acquire files from other storage without another computer. It does have the potential to function as a primary computing device. Lighter computing users could have a surface pro and a phone, at least that seems to be the way they're positioning it. I haven't looked at one or spent any time with Windows 8, so I don't know how well it works as a whole.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 02:05 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mouser45 View Post
Microsoft Surface Pro geekbench=5700ish; iPad 4=1700ish

Over 3x as fast.

Not too surprising considering what's inside. Still no battery benchmarks out yet.

Anyone planning on getting one? Seems like an intriguing concept--will probably wait for 2nd gen, but very tempting.
FYI - My iPad 3 only scores 750 on Geekbench. So the Surface Pro is ~ 7.5 times faster than an iPad 3.

Last edited by VFC; Feb 4, 2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 02:15 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VFC View Post
The average Geekbench results for the i5-3317U version of the Yoga is around 5,000. Your friends Yoga may have some background tasks running.
Yeah, I killed everything I could, so something must be wrong. I'll try it again tonight and see what's up.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:15 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Irishman View Post
Close. It's a compromised product that will disrupt Microsoft.

Ballmer just needs to leave.
Compromised how?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:20 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris2k5 View Post
Lol the Surface Pro is a fail. It is $300-$400 too expensive compared to tablets.

Why would anyone buy a Surface Pro for the same price as a MBA?!?!
Because it's not designed to compete the other Tablets, the Surface RT is for that. This is designed to compete with Ultrabooks.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:58 PM   #39
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The RT is a failure for whatever reason (perhaps the fact that it is no where to be see in physical stores so most people cant even look at it let alone buy it). Its screen isnt even retina level which is a minimum spec for tablets nowadays.

Therefore it is no longer ever going to be seen as an ipad alternative. In fact it is already dead as a product. This is where the pro comes in because it can actually offer something the ipad cannot. A full laptop experience in tablet form. However its pricing means that it will not compete with the ipad.

Instead it will be considered and ultrabook alternative but whether it will succeed in enticing potential ultrbook users remains to be seen. I'm sure most ultrabook users would prefer a Samsung Series 9 or Mac Air at that price.

At the end of the day the Pro isnt superior enough to really compete with ultrabooks. People will still see it as an expensive ipad.

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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:12 PM   #40
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FYI - My iPad 3 only scores 750 on Geekbench. So the Surface Pro is ~ 7.5 times faster than an iPad 3.
About what mine gets. However my Nexus 10 gets around 2500 on geekbench. While its usually during a lot more (torrents, more tabs open, background task, flash player, etc) however it doesn't FEEL faster which is more of what people notice....
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:48 PM   #41
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Compromised how?
Really? It's not a dedicated laptop. It's not a dedicated tablet. It's a swiss army knife approach to design.

A jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:04 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by spinedoc77 View Post
That makes no sense and is completely besides my point. My analysis doesn't need to hold water, it's factual and you can't dispute facts and numbers. Certainly we can dispute Microsofts marketing, whether it was a mistake to sell them with an office trial and the recovery partition taking up space, or if windows is a bloated OS, but I'm not debating any of those points and in fact I agree with all of them.
Really? So, please, do tell us how much space, in MB, the pre-loaded copy of MS Office takes up in a Macbook?

It shouldn't be hard.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:21 PM   #43
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Really? So, please, do tell us how much space, in MB, the pre-loaded copy of MS Office takes up in a Macbook?

It shouldn't be hard.
Sorry, I don't get the point you are trying to make. That Microsoft is ripping off consumers of hard drive space by including an Office trial? I'm confused, a Macbook not having an office trial really has nothing to do with my point.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:29 PM   #44
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Really? It's not a dedicated laptop. It's not a dedicated tablet. It's a swiss army knife approach to design.

A jack-of-all-trades, but a master of none.
Like an ultra book? Which is more of just a crappy laptop. Not that I have a use for one but I'd probably get the pro over a MBA. Mostly for touchscreen capability....I have no interest in either to point out though...
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:31 PM   #45
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Sorry, I don't get the point you are trying to make. That Microsoft is ripping off consumers of hard drive space by including an Office trial? I'm confused, a Macbook not having an office trial really has nothing to do with my point.
You claimed that "My analysis doesn't need to hold water, it's factual and you can't dispute facts and numbers. Certainly we can dispute Microsofts marketing, whether it was a mistake to sell them with an office trial and the recovery partition taking up space, or if windows is a bloated OS, but I'm not debating any of those points and in fact I agree with all of them."

Which you wrote because I pointed out the fact that the Macbook Air does not ship with Office pre-installed, therefore shouldn't be included in your list.

Remember this?

"You will probably have closer to 45+ gb free after you factor in the recovery partition and office trial. On the surface (no pun intended) it is true this is what the surface pro ships with, but once again only because they include the recovery partition and office trial. You get EXACTLY the free space you do on any other desktop or laptop, including the macbook air for example."

----------

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Like an ultra book? Which is more of just a crappy laptop. Not that I have a use for one but I'd probably get the pro over a MBA. Mostly for touchscreen capability....I have no interest in either to point out though...
Like a netbook? Talk about useless.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:34 PM   #46
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Like an ultra book? Which is more of just a crappy laptop. .
...Wurt?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:36 PM   #47
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You claimed that "My analysis doesn't need to hold water, it's factual and you can't dispute facts and numbers. Certainly we can dispute Microsofts marketing, whether it was a mistake to sell them with an office trial and the recovery partition taking up space, or if windows is a bloated OS, but I'm not debating any of those points and in fact I agree with all of them."

Which you wrote because I pointed out the fact that the Macbook Air does not ship with Office pre-installed, therefore shouldn't be included in your list.

Remember this?

"You will probably have closer to 45+ gb free after you factor in the recovery partition and office trial. On the surface (no pun intended) it is true this is what the surface pro ships with, but once again only because they include the recovery partition and office trial. You get EXACTLY the free space you do on any other desktop or laptop, including the macbook air for example."

----------



Like a netbook? Talk about useless.
Dude, I think you are confusing yourself lol. What point are you trying to make? The point I'm trying to make is that if you take away the recovery partition and the office trial on the surface pro then that 64gb hard drive will have very similar free hard drive space as, for example, a 64gb macbook air hard drive. Was that point really that difficult to understand?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:36 PM   #48
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...Wurt?
Like Irishman pointed out, I meant netbook.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:43 PM   #49
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Like Irishman pointed out, I meant netbook.
no worries. I got ur back!
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:54 PM   #50
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Like Irishman pointed out, I meant netbook.
Oh, that explains everything!

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