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Old Feb 4, 2013, 01:33 PM   #1
skottichan
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"Video games are a bigger problem than guns"

Okay, first he tried to foist SOPA on us, now the "esteemed" Senator from Tennessee, Lamar Alexander, is claiming that video games are the cause of our shootings problem.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2584837.html
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 01:40 PM   #2
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Okay, first he tried to foist SOPA on us, now the "esteemed" Senator from Tennessee, Lamar Alexander, is claiming that video games are the cause of our shootings problem.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2584837.html
How does a violent culture solve problems?

Violence.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:00 PM   #3
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How does a violent culture solve problems?

Violence.
Are you saying that since some people play violent video games our culture is violent? That's really just a small part of the population, right?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:03 PM   #4
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Are you saying that since some people play violent video games our culture is violent? That's really just a small part of the population, right?
Well, coupled with TV shows and movies like "Bullet to the Head", I think it's safe to say we have a pretty violent culture. I'm not sure if the chicken came before the egg though, so to speak.

Do you disagree?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:05 PM   #5
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Well if video games is causing it I'd suggest the military stop designing drone controllers like video game controllers.

They do that because " The members of the teams are used to playing video games so we designed the controller to be just like a game controller"
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:36 PM   #6
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Video games don't kill people, guns do.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
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How does a violent culture solve problems?

Violence.
I think you'd have a case if there weren't other First World countries (like Japan) that play video games, have violent (and more sexualized) media, having much lower per capita (and overall) shootings.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 03:47 PM   #8
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Well, coupled with TV shows and movies like "Bullet to the Head", I think it's safe to say we have a pretty violent culture. I'm not sure if the chicken came before the egg though, so to speak.

Do you disagree?
I want to disagree. I want to believe that just because some people like violent entertainment doesn't make us a violent culture.certainly there should be more to that violence make-up other then entertainment. Like feeding people to lions. But then again, some sports are still pretty violent, too. I think I'm arguing with myself now...
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 04:40 PM   #9
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I don't have any primary sources, but my recollection is that most studies on the subject have shown there is not any correlation between playing violent games or watching violent media, and acting violently in the real world.

I'll see what I can find about that when I get a chance.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:10 PM   #10
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I think you'd have a case if there weren't other First World countries (like Japan) that play video games, have violent (and more sexualized) media, having much lower per capita (and overall) shootings.
Well, I guess it's anecdotal, but FPS games and the like don't typically do well in countries like Japan or Korea. At least compared to others like StarCraft. Nintendo role playing games, etc...
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:17 PM   #11
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Funny, Europe has the same video games and movies as us yet they don't have monthly mass shootings like we do.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:18 PM   #12
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Funny, Europe has the same video games and movies as us yet they don't have monthly mass shootings like we do.
Yeah, different culture. Because it's not like Europeans don't have guns.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:23 PM   #13
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:26 PM   #14
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Well, I guess it's anecdotal, but FPS games and the like don't typically do well in countries like Japan or Korea. At least compared to others like StarCraft. Nintendo role playing games, etc...
Where do you think the survival horror genre came from? Senator Alexander is broad stroking video games as a whole. He's not citing Halo, or Call of Duty, he's using the generalization brush.

Secondly, I responding to your specific;

Quote:
How does a violent culture solve problems?

Violence.
I was pointing out that other First World nations have just as violent cultures as ours, from Imperialism to violent media, we in the US are unique with our internalized violence, and violent media has nothing to do with it.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:30 PM   #15
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Where do you think the survival horror genre came from? Senator Alexander is broad stroking video games as a whole. He's not citing Halo, or Call of Duty, he's using the generalization brush.

Secondly, I responding to your specific;



I was pointing out that other First World nations have just as violent cultures as ours, from Imperialism to violent media, we in the US are unique with our internalized violence, and violent media has nothing to do with it.
But it is a reflection of what we value and enjoy. We're also a nation that values sports, heavily, if you're in Columbus and you are a Buckeyes fan, you know that all too well. Other people are violent, surely, I'm not denying that one bit. Just that there are social differences, perhaps not so clear, which keeps people in Japan from looting when a tsunami hits, or kids in Italy from trying to blow up school buses when they get picked on.

Part of that is probably related to how we treat people here, access to things like healthcare, welfare, etc... can have an affect where people feel helpless and trapped, and act out.

Also, how's the snow?
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:36 PM   #16
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Well, I guess it's anecdotal, but FPS games and the like don't typically do well in countries like Japan or Korea. At least compared to others like StarCraft. Nintendo role playing games, etc...
From Forbes:

Quote:
The Five Biggest Video Game Markets in the World

1. United States – $13.6B

2. Japan – $7B

3. China – $6.8B

4. South Korea – $5B

5. United Kingdom – $3B

As you can see, the United States is indeed on top when it comes to video game spending, but let’s not forget our population is three times the size of Japan’s. So really, Japan is spending probably about twice what we are per capita on video games. South Korea and the United Kingdom are likely somewhat close to us proportionally. So really, our level of violence should be relatively close to theirs, if not a bit less so, especially in the gun category as the vast majority of these violent games involve shooting.
Quote:
Firearm Deaths Per 100,000

United States – 10.2

Japan – 0.07

China (Hong Kong) – 0.19

South Korea – 0.13

United Kingdom – 0.25
Link
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 05:52 PM   #17
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From Forbes:





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http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/18/gam...0618games.html

Quote:
...Across the pond, consumers prefer racing and soccer games to blockbuster action, adventure and first-person shooter games that are the staple of the U.S. diet. Indeed, Europeans view such games as "evil," says Cevat Yerli, chief executive of Crytek, a German game developer that specializes in first-person shooters.

Guns and gore also don't sell as well in Europe because Europeans like short, so-called casual games, rather than the long, epic tales that keep gamers pounding on their consoles for hours at a stretch. Casual games also fit the European lifestyle better: People can play these short games on trains and subways on their way to work...
This lines up with what I experienced when I lived in Europe.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
But it is a reflection of what we value and enjoy. We're also a nation that values sports, heavily, if you're in Columbus and you are a Buckeyes fan, you know that all too well. Other people are violent, surely, I'm not denying that one bit. Just that there are social differences, perhaps not so clear, which keeps people in Japan from looting when a tsunami hits, or kids in Italy from trying to blow up school buses when they get picked on.

Part of that is probably related to how we treat people here, access to things like healthcare, welfare, etc... can have an affect where people feel helpless and trapped, and act out.

Also, how's the snow?
I think you're onto something there, we're so programmed to live the "American Dream" and out spend, outwit, outlast, our neighbors. I think that has to somehow feed into that "I'm going to end this argument with a gun" mindset. It saddens me, I was raised around guns, I love shooting skeet with my uncles, but something has to be changed here. At this point, we may need to start banning handguns (since unlike what the media says about assault rifles, handguns are the most used in all forms of shootings), just to get a handle on violence.

At the end of the day, blaming games, music, movies, sports or TV may make us feel better, they're not the problem. (And yes, I'm a Buckeyes fan, also an OSU grad)

It's actually nice (the snow), I've been bouncing around the US and Europe for the past 5-6 years, so it's nice to be back in the familiar Ohio winter.


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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
http://www.forbes.com/2008/06/18/gam...0618games.html



This lines up with what I experienced when I lived in Europe.
Doesn't line up with sales facts. The #1 game selling in Europe right now is Black Ops II (PS3), #3 is Black Ops II (360), #4 is Far Cry 3 (PS3), #7 Far Cry 3 (360) and #8 Devil May Cry (PS3).

For all of 2012; 3 of the top 10 are FPS #1 Black Ops 2 (PS3), #2 Black Ops II (360) with Battlefield 3 (PS3) as #9 which is amazing for a game released in 2011.

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Old Feb 4, 2013, 06:45 PM   #19
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controlled for inhabitants, japanese spend about twice as much as americans on video games, yet the rate of gun death is about 150 times lower (recent forbes link).
even accounting for the difference in the types of video games purchased, the correlation is just non-existant.
same for korea, england, etc.

on the other hand, there is a much better correlation with gun numbers(link), particularly when comparing developed nations (link)

the predisposition for violent video games, like for violent movies, is a symptom of an intrinsically violent culture, not a cause. so is our irrational love for guns.
the difference is that you typically cannot use a videogame to actually kill people, whilst you can do exactly that with guns.

there undoubtely is a cultural problem at the root that needs to be addressed, then people would likely choose less violent videogames and movies, and decide they really do not need those guns.
but meanwhile, to limit the actual violence, reducing access to guns will help, reducing access to videogames will not.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:37 PM   #20
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Japan has a complete ban on guns and has a high amount of people playing video games yet has a total of around 10 gun related deaths in 2012. We in the United States also play a high amount of video games and have nearly 1 gun for every person (and counting) in the country and have around 11,000 deaths in 2012. Really now, video games are really the problem?

Look, I've been playing a lot of Asphalt 7 on my iPhone 5 and living out my fantasies of driving a car I will probably never be able to buy in the real world and driving it at speeds and in ways that I could never do in the real world but does it mean that I will emulate what I do in a video game in the real world? Of course not!

It's so easy to blame and scapegoat other things, in this case video games, and use them as nothing more than a smokescreen than to tackle the main issue at hand with intelligent, rational, and commonsense solutions.
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 07:39 PM   #21
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From Forbes:





Link
Different types of video games. Look at first party Nintendo games, Final Fantasy, etc...

then....

Doom 3, Halo, etc... American
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Old Feb 4, 2013, 08:21 PM   #22
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I've posted articles in this forum before; peer reviewed and published in the best psychological journals. They all show a correlation between violent media consumption and aggressive/violent behavior, especially in young males. Additionally violent media consumption is linked to expression of certain sociopathic traits such as lack of empathy.

There's plenty of evidence and yet most people assume that there shouldn't be a connection and state that assumption as unequivocal truth.

And make no mistake; I am not saying, and nobody else should say, that these games/movies/music etc are the sole cause. In a country that's awash in guns, it makes sense that there would be more gun deaths than in a country with an effective ban. But it's easy to overlook the fact that guns can't do one thing that media can. Guns in and of themselves can't glamorize violence. They can't demonstrate for someone how to kill as many people as possible in as short an amount of time as possible. They can't desensitize people to the suffering of others and they can't nurture a lack of value for life in a young person's developing psyche.

That anyone would pin the problem solely, or even mostly on the mere presence of guns shows an extreme level of naïveté in my opinion.

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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:07 AM   #23
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Quote:
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I've posted articles in this forum before; peer reviewed and published in the best psychological journals. They all show a correlation between violent media consumption and aggressive/violent behavior, especially in young males. Additionally violent media consumption is linked to expression of certain sociopathic traits such as lack of empathy.

There's plenty of evidence and yet most people assume that there shouldn't be a connection and state that assumption as unequivocal truth.

And make no mistake; I am not saying, and nobody else should say, that these games/movies/music etc are the sole cause. In a country that's awash in guns, it makes sense that there would be more gun deaths than in a country with an effective ban. But it's easy to overlook the fact that guns can't do one thing that media can. Guns in and of themselves can't glamorize violence. They can't demonstrate for someone how to kill as many people as possible in as short an amount of time as possible. They can't desensitize people to the suffering of others and they can't nurture a lack of value for life in a young person's developing psyche.

That anyone would pin the problem solely, or even mostly on the mere presence of guns shows an extreme level of naïveté in my opinion.
Then can these alleged peer reviews explain why countries with just as intensely violent media/games as ours, have considerably less violent crime? Especially places like Japan and Korea where young men and women spend up to 3x what we do consuming video games?

It's the relative ease of access to firearms in the US. It's really that simple.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:28 AM   #24
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Then can these alleged peer reviews explain why countries with just as intensely violent media/games as ours, have considerably less violent crime? Especially places like Japan and Korea where young men and women spend up to 3x what we do consuming video games?

It's the relative ease of access to firearms in the US. It's really that simple.
See above, the violent content of games consumed in Europe and Japan is not the same as in the USA. They also are not allowed to have guns. Unfortunately (for you apparently) access to guns is a constitutional right in the USA and that's not going anywhere so one of the best options is to strike at media that affects young people in negative ways with respect to violence and aggression.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 12:49 AM   #25
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Funny, Europe has the same video games and movies as us yet they don't have monthly mass shootings like we do.
We actually do collectively, but the offenders are generally older and appear disgruntled or mentally unstable but they're not the average gamer or anywhere near the target age group.
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