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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:08 PM   #51
designgeek
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I bet Michael Dell is wishing he never made that comment about Apple doing this all those years ago.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:15 PM   #52
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I bet Michael Dell is wishing he never made that comment about Apple doing this all those years ago.
Probably not. At the time the legacy PC business was all he really knew how to do. If Apple tried to turn around basically by being a legacy PC business it was doomed.

He didn't see the other opportunities for either Apple or frankly Dell at that time.

I'm guessing he far more wishes he hadn't tried mimicing, badly at that, some of the things Apple did to recover. Those didn't work. Neither did going "scrooge mc duck" and using all of those crappy capacititors for awhile. For a while the company was on a suck the price and margins out of everything strategy which is one reason why they need to go private now to fit things.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:26 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by deconstruct60 View Post
It is doubtful this is about "making" Dell do more or less Linux stuff. Dell is heavily positioned toward making a dent in the server market. That means Linux (along with Windows) or it means losing. I don't think Microsoft is out to loose $2B.
Dell has had Linux/bare metal offerings for years. It seems to depend on how happy they are with Microsoft how they promote this. The netbook was one example. Originally, they were pushed as linux boxes with an option to install Windows. Later Windows became the default and the Linux option was nowhere to be found.

Same with servers/workstations. Today, you can find Linux offerings via their configuration wizards, but the "Dell Recommends" config is still usually Windows. At one point when I was buying a workstation from them I specifically had to call in and get a special part number assigned to it as it was going to be a Linux number cruncher. Couldn't be done on the web wizard even though there was a mention of Linux at the top level description of the box.

That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Relative levels of promotion, not abandoning Linux altogether.

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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:38 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Michael_Dell View Post
"What would I do? I'd shut [Apple] down and give the money back to the shareholders," Michael Dell said before a crowd of several thousand IT executives.
Times change.

----------

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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Dell has had Linux/bare metal offerings for years. [...]
And Microsoft got paid for every single PC Dell shipped, whether or not Windows of any kind was installed on it.

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...away-microsoft

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/1...18_000601.html

http://www.linfo.org/microsoft_tax.html
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 01:42 PM   #55
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There is no such thing as the post-PC era. Anyone who believes that doesn't understand computers. It's not that people don't want or need computers but rather the fact that computing power has increased to the point where upgrade cycles are extremely long now. That is the reason for the sales slump the market has been in.

Gone are the days where upgrades provide dramatic performance improvements. The PC boom was happening when the internet was the driving force for those upgrades. An 5-8 year old computer is enough for what the vast majority of people do with one today.

These incremental upgrades are going to catch up to the phone and tablet market too in a few years and people are not going to need them as often. A few years after that the second hand market will be flooded with completely capable cheap devices and those markets will slump as well.
Who thinks post-pc actually means PCs are done with? I thought it was implied how consumers and businesses are moving towards purchasing other devices more frequently. Clearly people aren't throwing out their PCs or not replacing them. I think you take the "post-pc" phrase too literally.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:04 PM   #56
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Apple should sue Dell for copying them by going to Uncle Bill for money when times are tough...

Hopefully Apple has legal claim that maneuver.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:14 PM   #57
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More control, I guess - Donít have to answer to shareholders anymore
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:56 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by balamw View Post
Dell has had Linux/bare metal offerings for years. ...
Correct... so why would Microsoft's money make any difference? Michael Dell is putting more personal money into this deal than Microsoft's share. Microsoft is not going to be "running the show" by any stretch of the imagination.


Quote:
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Relative levels of promotion, not abandoning Linux altogether.
I can see Dell abandoning Linux submarkets that don't solidly show a high potential for growth. There seems to be several things that Dell did "just because" they wanted to be "everything to everybody". That is probably going to change. If desktop Linux looks like a stagnant market I can see the "new" Dell dumping it like a hot potato.

Dell has too many products that don't make a difference in the line up. There primary benefit of going private is to clean house without 300 back-seat-drivers second guessing the strategy. If after going private Dell continues to do exactly what they are doing now, it is likely a failure.

If Windows growth is high then Dell will shift toward it. If not they won't. Microsoft money doesn't change that one way or the other.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 02:59 PM   #59
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I really don't want to see people lose their Dell jobs, especially in this market. However, it is great to see Michael Dell eating crow in this case!
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 03:43 PM   #60
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For those asking about Microsoft's role, I'm guessing it has to do with the Windows ecosystem. Microsoft probably needs a reliable partner to create touch/pc hybrid devices that show off Windows 8, considering just how heavily invested they are with the "Don't call it Metro" interface across the tablet, phone and PC lines.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:17 PM   #61
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I really don't want to see people lose their Dell jobs, especially in this market. However, it is great to see Michael Dell eating crow in this case!
Dude is still a millionaire, but take your laughs where you must.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:18 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by designgeek View Post
I bet Michael Dell is wishing he never made that comment about Apple doing this all those years ago.
I bet he isn't. He never meant it in the literal sense, although, that is what everyone took it as at the time.

Quote:
Dell said that he initially refused to answer the original question in 1997, and after being asked to answer twice he basically responded ďWhat would I do? Iíd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders,Ē because he couldnít imagine himself being CEO of any other company.

Dell went on, ďThe meaning of my answer was that Iím the CEO of Dell, I donít think about being the CEO of any other company, Iím not a CEO for hire, so if you asked me what Iíd do for any other company, itís not really something I think about.Ē
http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/18/mic...-misconstrued/
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:23 PM   #63
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It's too bad Jobs isn't still around to mass email this info to all employees.
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Originally Posted by Macrolido View Post
This is worth a moment of reflection today.
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Originally Posted by a0me View Post
"I'd shut the company down and give the money back to the shareholders."

15 years later, Dell finally acted on his own advice.
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Originally Posted by johncrab View Post
Yeah, I remember when he said that about Apple. Hehehehe. Payback's a bitch.
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Originally Posted by slffl View Post
Steve Jobs beat Michael Dell from the grave. I am so happy on so many levels, one of them being I hate Michael Dell and his right-wing politics.
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I bet he isn't. He never meant it in the literal sense, although, that is what everyone took it as at the time.



http://techcrunch.com/2011/10/18/mic...-misconstrued/
So.. People do remember. hehe

I too wonder what Microsoft is getting in this deal.

Perhaps a manufacturing partnership for tablets ?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:26 PM   #64
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Dude is still a millionaire, but take your laughs where you must.
Actually, he's a billionaire with a net worth* that exceeds/exceeded that of Steve Jobs.

*Having money only means something when it's in Apple's favor...
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:33 PM   #65
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I had a beige Dell something or other... it was a Pentium II. That lasted forever. Was the last Dell I've ever
used that lived past a year old.

I also have a Dell monitor at home. No problems with it.
I had one of those old beige Dells too. I ended up trading it for a Compaq something or other and then an iMac. My brother had the same ok Dell as me and it is still going at about 13 years old. He finally got a new computer last year but not because the old Dell died. Those old ones were well made.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 04:45 PM   #66
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I too find it strange that Microsoft would lend such a vast amount to a PC vendor.


It reminds me of when Microsoft helped Apple in the late 90s. People are often quick to forget that, but MS did Apple a favor by striking a deal with Jobs about making Office and Internet Explorer(which at the time, was very relevant) for OS9 I believe. That was 97.




Say what you want but Bill Gates is an amazing man. Balmer might be riding the company down the toilet, and maybe Microsoft was never known for their good will or "cool", but I think they did alright, even if they are losing now. Maybe Google and Apple will loose a soon as well?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 06:01 PM   #67
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Agreed. Look at what these "expert" analysts did to Apple's last quarter. Their best EVER quarter by some margin, but because they didn't meet the results these "experts" predicted, they suffered massively negative reporting, and a massive drop in sp/market cap.

It's almost as if these analysts buy shares, over-up the predictions and dump just before announcements.
Yep! That's how the system works! unfortunately...
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:01 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by pancakedrawer View Post
Hopefully this will allow them to become more innovative and increase competition.
In what way? Competition with whom?

Dell's original innovation was all about supply chain, I'm not sure we can expect a lot from this company, or any others just like it, other than to build more of the same things year after year (with only minor tweaks over last year's myriad models).
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:19 PM   #69
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What's that, Michael? Phoning Steve in Heaven?

He tried to get ahold of Steve to apologize for that crummy comment back in the late '90s, that Apple should just be closed and sold for parts.

See what happens when you do the Microsoft/Android business model? Razor-thin margins, and being wed to the same archetypes as when you entered the business. Pretty indistinguishable commodity brands.
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:22 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
If Apple were to go private today it would be a $550B LBO. Since most shares are not owned by insiders, which is different from Dell, it would be more difficult to go private at all. However it would be possible for Apple and Braeburn to get considerable leverage, both bank and brokerage, buy back its stock in the open market and through dark pools, and make slow progress toward setting up a future go private effort.

If they were to buy back half the company at stock prices of $450-500 at $275B and assuming 4:1 leverage, the cash cost would be only $55B. Pocket change for Apple and Braeburn.

Although today's market cap is only $418B. Only 3x cash in bank.

Rocketman
There is always a premium when doing such a buyout so a $450-500 buyback price is low. But say they pay at 15% premium over $450 that would be $517 hmmm not to far from your range. That would get Apple out from the Wall Street treadmill. Maybe that isn't such a bad idea at the current price + premium. Anyone have a few hundred billion dollars they can lend to me?
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Old Feb 5, 2013, 09:23 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by designgeek View Post
I bet Michael Dell is wishing he never made that comment about Apple doing this all those years ago.
Karma is such a biyatch.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 01:34 AM   #72
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The Inspiron 15z Ultrabook + Touch, which is the model the closest to the MacBook Pro 15" in terms of hardware, costs about $1400...
I dont see your point?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:12 AM   #73
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Taking the public money to fund the rapid growth phases and then buying it all back once the situation has leveled out. We may start seeing this as more of a trend.

Really a good move for them and MS. Being public in the market today is a lot harder than it once was.
But hard to buy back if the stock price is at Apple's level, for example. Otherwise I bet Apple would enjoy going private. They don't need anyone anymore. But yet they started to give dividends instead, not knowing what better to do with their money?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:19 AM   #74
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"Silver Lake is looking forward to partnering with him, the talented management team at Dell and the investor group to innovate, invest in long-term growth initiatives and accelerate the company's transformation strategy to become an integrated and diversified global IT solutions provider."

How is that to happen due to LBO? Same team leading means same vision and culture. This same management team and ultimate leader failed to innovate and react. What is the reason to think they will Think Better now that there are fewer shareholders involved?

I see this as a way for Dell to stay in power by staving off a shareholder revolt (and Real Change) before one occurs. If I were his competition, I wouldn't fear this move.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:24 AM   #75
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I dont see your point?
You weren't implying that Dell was selling a laptop equivalent to a 15-inch MacBook Pro for only £400?
Because it sounded like you were, and that's just isn't true.
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