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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:57 PM   #51
skottichan
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As a bullied girl in grade school (gasp, I read comic books and played GI Joe), from my experience, games like cops and robbers can lead to some serious bullying. When we'd play GI Joe, me and the "different kids" would be instantly branded Cobra, and be taunted and physically hit by the sticks we used as laser guns. I have a scar on my chin from one of these games, when one of the "Joes" slammed me face first into the big metal climbing down that served as "jail". When my mom complained, I got a 2 day "stay at home" and mom got "Oh they're just kids".

So yeah, I can see what the administrators were trying to stop, as I was a victim of what they're trying to stop. I just think the suspension was just plain wrong, this was an opportunity to educate, but they took the easy way out. When teachers see kids being "violent" gather them together and talk to them, not at them, let them discuss back. Kids are sponges to what's around them, we can make them better than us, but we won't because, to paraphrase a modern philosopher; because you don’t want to talk to your ugly child for ****ing five minutes?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 02:58 PM   #52
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... into your life it will creep...
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:04 PM   #53
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I agree that somebody (I'm assuming the teacher) should have pulled him aside and reminded him that any kind of play fighting is against the rules.

As I said earlier, I think suspending the kid was harsh.
Ah, did not read that. Posted after reading first OP.

Yes, I understand what you are saying, the rules are made to keep peace.

Perhaps it is the punishment for breaking the rule is the issue, a verbal admonishment and suggestion to do something else would be more appropriate.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:10 PM   #54
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Yes. And not just in that school.

There have been a number of news stories of children being punished for doing exactly that.
Right, and each one has been faced with the same amount of exasperation and outrage as this one.

It's an incredibly stupid rule that serves no purpose whatsoever. People who think it's a good idea should be administered a good talking to, and forced to feel as much shame as possible for implementing it.

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Sounds like parents need to teach their children that they can't do that on school grounds.
Yeah, I'm sure it's so simple. Sitting your kinds down and telling them they can't play lazer guns with their fingers on the playground is all it'll take to make sure they'll mind perfectly from that point on.

It'll be just like telling them not to use dirty words. If you're a competent parent, all it takes is a good talking to and your kids will behave 100% of the time from that point on. No, they won't end up finding some secluded corner of the playground, hunker down, and start whispering these verboten words at each other while giggling and rolling on the ground.

Cuz God forbid, if they're saying dirty words and play lazer guns with their fingers today, the obvious next step in their emotional evolution is turning into Eric Harris and/or Dylan Klebold and shooting the whole place up. Might as well kick em out of school and pump em full of drugs before that inevitability.

That's why we have rules, huh?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:33 PM   #55
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Sitting your kinds down and telling them they can't play lazer guns with their fingers on the playground is all it'll take to make sure they'll mind perfectly from that point on.
Maybe if they were aware of the side effects...

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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:33 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Is that harsh? Yes.

But I'm sure the boy's parents were told about those rules.

And they should have impressed upon their son the importance to abide by them.

Suspension isn't the end of the word.

I doubt it will affect him getting into the college of his choice.
The rule is ridiculous and it's clear that the kid didn't really understand what he did was wrong. Suspension doesn't teach him anything, except that authority figures are petulant forces beyond his comprehension. Instead, the teachers could have talked to him about how to solve problems—and save people—using something other than weaponry. Of course, that might require a teacher to have a classroom size a human being is actually capable of dealing with.

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When I was a kid I pretended to be Luke Skywalker with a pretend light saber...you get suspended for that these days? Emasculating...
I was thinking the same thing. I loved Star Wars and my buddies and I ran around with pretend lightsabers and pretend blasters and pretend spaceships. Someone was Darth Vader and he ran after us evilly wheezing and we would do the trench run and scream, "I got you" at each other like a bunch of demons.
I'm sure we were horrible. Because we were kids.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:41 PM   #57
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Because 7 year olds are so familiar with the concept of a blowjob. Must be all the porn they watch on TV.
I don't really believe a lot of what I read on the internets but I came across this story (via a different source) a couple of days ago.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/04/or...nia-preschool/
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:46 PM   #58
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Maybe if they were aware of the side effects...
What? Kids listening to The Prodigy? I don't think that happens all that much anymore.

Oh, wait. The dead kids. That's Loaded Finger Gun Syndrome. It's a genetic predisposition that only affects 1 out of every 20,000 people. If the kids parents took him to the doctor and found out about it beforehand, they could've applied preventative medication to keep that from happening. I don't think it's enough of a reason to ban lazer fingers from schools entirely.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:47 PM   #59
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Does that rule make no sense to you?

I understand it pretty clearly.

No fighting or playing with weapons ... real or imaginary.

That's pretty straight forward.
Except you didn't even read the rule. I did this morning and it doesn't say imaginary.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:52 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Is that harsh? Yes.

But I'm sure the boy's parents were told about those rules.

And they should have impressed upon their son the importance to abide by them.

Suspension isn't the end of the word.

I doubt it will affect him getting into the college of his choice.

Yes, the parents should have know the "rules". And objected to them. No, suspension isn't the end of the world. Actually, I would pull my child out of a school like that where children aren't allowed to act like children anymore without getting suspended or put on drugs.

These "teachers" should be ashamed of themselves. Dumber than dirt.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 03:52 PM   #61
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Except you didn't even read the rule. I did this morning and it doesn't say imaginary.
I think the part I read was imaginary.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:01 PM   #62
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Kids use their imagination all the time. I wouldn't discourage that. Adults and imagination? A little bit since adults are more able to turn imagination into reality.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:24 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unlinked View Post
Except you didn't even read the rule. I did this morning and it doesn't say imaginary.
I'm working off the OP's quote ...

Quote:
The list includes absolutely no fighting, real or imaginary; no weapons, real or imaginary.
If the actual school rule doesn't use those words, then that's pretty lousy reporting.

----------

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Originally Posted by SnowLeopard2008 View Post
Kids use their imagination all the time. I wouldn't discourage that.
They aren't discouraging imagination.

They're discouraging a certain subject to focus one's imagination on.

My wife used to teach art to school kids. She found the boys were obsessed with drawing guns and eventually told them that they needed to draw something else. Was she discouraging artistic expression? Or was she trying to expand it?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:27 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
If the actual school rule doesn't use those words, then that's pretty lousy reporting.
The school's web site is down at the moment (likely related to this) but when I read it yesterday on their site it did say "real or imaginary". They may have updated it since then.

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My wife used to teach art to school kids. She found the boys were obsessed with drawing guns and eventually told them that they needed to draw something else. Was she discouraging artistic expression? Or was she trying to expand it?
I think that is an okay course of action. Talking to the child.

I don't think he should have been suspended. I think the school should take steps in the case of imaginary play. Talk to the child, take away his recess on further offenses, then if he continues possibly suspend him. Immediate suspension for imaginary play is a bit much.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:28 PM   #65
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If the actual school rule doesn't use those words, then that's pretty lousy reporting.
You might be right. I followed the link from the original article, and came across this...

Quote:
To insure this Time to Teach Program, we have come up with some ABSOLUTES to make Mary Blair a safe environment.
The ABSOLUTES for Mary Blair Elementary:
1. No Physical Abuse or Fights – real or “play fighting”
2. No weapons (real or play), illegal drugs (including tobacco) or alcohol
3. No serious disrespect toward people or property (includes, but is not limited: profanity, racial slurs, deliberately refusing to follow a staff directive, graffiti, etc.)
I guess you could construe what the kid did as "play fighting" using "play weaponry", though in my opinion it'd be quite a bit of a stretch to take that and apply it to a pretend air grenade.

Quote:
They aren't discouraging imagination.

They're discouraging a certain subject to focus one's imagination on.

My wife used to teach art to school kids. She found the boys were obsessed with drawing guns and eventually told them that they needed to draw something else. Was she discouraging artistic expression? Or was she trying to expand it?
This situation is a little different, as they're not discouraging or actively steering away so much as punishing outright.

If they want kids to do something with their imaginations besides play pretend war, they could certainly find a more constructive way of doing so.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:36 PM   #66
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Two other security breaches.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1243635

Quote:
A Pennsylvania elementary school allegedly suspended a 5-year-old girl for making a “terrorist threat” after the child told a friend that she was going to shoot her with a pink Hello Kitty bubble gun.

The unidentified kindergartener was initially suspended for 10 days following the Jan. 10 incident at Mount Carmel Area Elementary School in Northumberland County, PennLive.com reported.
Quote:
The child was reportedly required to receive a psychological evaluation because of the suspension. The evaluation found that the girl did not represent any threat to others, Ficker said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1245647

Quote:
A Philadelphia fifth grader was admonished by school officials and called "murderer" by classmates for bringing a piece of paper that looked like a gun to school.
Quote:
The piece of paper in question was crafted by Melody's grandfather the day before the incident, but was not very elaborate. It was just a piece of folded paper, Dianna Kelly said.

Melody didn't realize the piece of paper was still on her person when she took it out of her pocket. A classmate saw the "gun" and reported it to the school official.
We should install paper detectors in schools.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:47 PM   #67
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I think that is an okay course of action. Talking to the child.

I don't think he should have been suspended. I think the school should take steps in the case of imaginary play. Talk to the child, take away his recess on further offenses, then if he continues possibly suspend him. Immediate suspension for imaginary play is a bit much.
And I agree with you.

The teacher or administrator should have simply reminded the child of the rules.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:49 PM   #68
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The rule is dumb. I'm glad the kid broke it. More kids need to break dumb rules like this. I would be encouraging my children to break such stupid rules. Take it to make absurdity. Tell the kid to keep doing it, reward him/her at home even for doing so. Let the school expel him. Then just keep dropping the child off at school, and have them keep going to their normal classes. Then when the teachers call, just don't pick up. Show up at the end of the day, pick the child up. Make the school call the police. Really take it to that extreme. Because that's the only way you get crap like this examined, and then taken out of society.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:51 PM   #69
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Plus... where did the kid get the imaginary grenade from? It's not like he went out and bought it. Did a teacher leave it sitting around? Was it not locked up at home? Why is nobody asking the hard hitting questions?
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:52 PM   #70
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:53 PM   #71
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I hate to think what would happen to me if I were in elementary school in this day and age.

All my friends? We used to take pieces of paper, wad them up into a nice tight C-shape, and shoot them at each other with rubber bands. I don't think a day past in I didn't come home with a welt or two on my arms back in 5th grade.

Of course we got in trouble for it when we were caught. At least a couple of us had to spend a recess or two writing sentences or helping the janitor clean out trash cans.

But now? I shudder to think. I'd probably be labeled a murderer in training.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 04:56 PM   #72
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Plus... where did the kid get the imaginary grenade from? It's not like he went out and bought it. Did a teacher leave it sitting around? Was it not locked up at home? Why is nobody asking the hard hitting questions?
I heard that in Europe they don't have imaginary grenades or guns, so they don't have any imaginary gun or grenade deaths.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:03 PM   #73
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I hate to think what would happen to me if I were in elementary school in this day and age.

All my friends? We used to take pieces of paper, wad them up into a nice tight C-shape, and shoot them at each other with rubber bands. I don't think a day past in I didn't come home with a welt or two on my arms back in 5th grade.

Of course we got in trouble for it when we were caught. At least a couple of us had to spend a recess or two writing sentences or helping the janitor clean out trash cans.

But now? I shudder to think. I'd probably be labeled a murderer in training.
You should have lived in rural Louisiana in the 50's. Harsh man. I seen things...Bad things.......

Can you say BB gun fights ?

Yes. Kids went around playing war with BB guns.
Not at school mind you and a couple did get dinged pretty good but that was the way it was down south in the 50's.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:33 PM   #74
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Can you say BB gun fights ?
...yeah, that's a little hardcore. I would've caught a lot of flak for bringing a BB gun to school. And that's here, in the Deep South, during the late 80's - 90's.

I don't think the resulting fallout would've been as extreme as it would be these days. I know I would've gotten a huge amount of "what were you thinking" speeches screamed in my general direction at the top of someone's lungs, and likely a week straight of in school suspension, but that'd likely be the extent of it. I wouldn't have been charged with possession of a deadly weapon and required to go through massive amounts of counselling for deep seated mental issues or anything overly extreme.

It's tragic, really. We live in a society so deeply rooted in fear, we interpret everything a kid does as a warning sign for something far more sinister than what it actually is. The end result is that kids these days aren't allowed to have a childhood anymore. Nothing is innocent. Every small, harmless action is a seedling for a future tragedy. We're far more paranoid than we have any right to be, and our kids are suffering the consequences.

I never would've imagined my generation would grow up into such a tightly wound, humorless group of people.
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Old Feb 6, 2013, 05:36 PM   #75
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...yeah, that's a little hardcore. I would've caught a lot of flak for bringing a BB gun to school. And that's here, in the Deep South, during the late 80's - 90's.

I don't think the resulting fallout would've been as extreme as it would be these days. I know I would've gotten a huge amount of "what were you thinking" speeches screamed in my general direction at the top of someone's lungs, and likely a week straight of in school suspension, but that'd likely be the extent of it. I wouldn't have been charged with possession of a deadly weapon and required to go through massive amounts of counselling for deep seated mental issues or anything overly extreme.

It's tragic, really. We live in a society so deeply rooted in fear, we interpret everything a kid does as a warning sign for something far more sinister than what it actually is. The end result is that kids these days aren't allowed to have a childhood anymore. Nothing is innocent. Every small, harmless action is a seedling for a future tragedy. We're far more paranoid than we have any right to be, and our kids are suffering the consequences.

I never would've imagined my generation would grow up into such a tightly wound, humorless group of people.
Ya. I agree.. I went through all that stuff yet I have never owned a gun nor have I had the desire to.
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