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Old Feb 7, 2013, 10:28 AM   #76
mcrain
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Yes mcrain, the Democrats are ****ing saints. Those damn Republicans screw everything up on their own.


The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act passed the House by a voice vote and unanimous consent in the Senate.
Then it was Republicans and stupid democrats.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 10:46 AM   #77
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My point was, the USPS would be forced to run more efficiently in the free market. The government has run it into the ground.
I agree that a Postal Service should be run efficiently, but .... it also needs to be noted that it provides a service that free market entities don't provide. As stated above, the post office delivers (and picks up) from any address. One of the things that has financially harmed postal services is that the government has allowed competition into the market, without putting the same restrictions on the competition. If the private couriers can't make money delivering to certain areas... they don't have to.

So what ends up happening is that the postal services that used to make the post office money - the cream on the top - and that were used subsidize the non-profitable services, get taken away by the private couriers leaving the post office with just the non-profitable services. Plus, the couriers can still use the post office to deliver to areas that they can't economically get to... in effect a government entity is now subsidizing a private entity.

I wonder what would happen if the private couriers were forced to deliver to every address, and to not be able to charge a premium for areas that they found unprofitable? All of sudden the post office would look like a major bargain, I believe.
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No. Frank Drebin just makes me smile. That's a good thing, right?
I was once on a plane in the US with "Frank".... he was up at the front, joking with the fellow passengers about his latest movie - he had the jacket on. I really wanted to just shake his hand, but didn't want to intrude... It wasn't until afterwards I realized I had the perfect intro line "Excuse me, but aren't you the brother of the deputy prime minister of Canada?" I think he would have laughed at that, and not minded the interruption. Why do we always think of things too late, eh?

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..... I'm proposing we gradually reduce or eliminate paper mail completely, then we could eliminate the USPS, or change it's mission.
Yikes! No, please.... We still send postcards, I sell postcards. We still send photo cards and I sell cards. We love getting cards and postcards in the mail. And letters too of course.

Just because you have no friends and family who will take the time to write to you, please don't penalize those of us with healthy writing relationships with our friends and family. I shouldn't really care, since my postal service is a profit maker - thank you very much - but I have family in the US and we like to write back and forth. And for the record the writers range in age from high school to older than me.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 10:49 AM   #78
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I agree that a Postal Service should be run efficiently, but .... it also needs to be noted that it provides a service that free market entities don't provide. As stated above, the post office delivers (and picks up) from any address. One of the things that has financially harmed postal services is that the government has allowed competition into the market, without putting the same restrictions on the competition. If the private couriers can't make money delivering to certain areas... they don't have to.

So what ends up happening is that the postal services that used to make the post office money - the cream on the top - and that were used subsidize the non-profitable services, get taken away by the private couriers leaving the post office with just the non-profitable services. Plus, the couriers can still use the post office to deliver to areas that they can't economically get to... in effect a government entity is now subsidizing a private entity.

I wonder what would happen if the private couriers were forced to deliver to every address, and to not be able to charge a premium for areas that they found unprofitable? All of sudden the post office would look like a major bargain, I believe.


I was once on a plane in the US with "Frank".... he was up at the front, joking with the fellow passengers about his latest movie - he had the jacket on. I really wanted to just shake his hand, but didn't want to intrude... It wasn't until afterwards I realized I had the perfect intro line "Excuse me, but aren't you the brother of the deputy prime minister of Canada?" I think he would have laughed at that, and not minded the interruption. Why do we always think of things too late, eh?

----------



Yikes! No, please.... We still send postcards, I sell postcards. We still send photo cards and I sell cards. We love getting cards and postcards in the mail. And letters too of course.

Just because you have no friends and family who will take the time to write to you, please don't penalize those of us with healthy writing relationships with our friends and family. I shouldn't really care, since my postal service is a profit maker - thank you very much - but I have family in the US and we like to write back and forth. And for the record the writers range in age from high school to older than me.
Great post - well said. And I'm in complete agreement with you.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:06 AM   #79
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Yikes! No, please.... We still send postcards, I sell postcards. We still send photo cards and I sell cards. We love getting cards and postcards in the mail. And letters too of course.

Just because you have no friends and family who will take the time to write to you, please don't penalize those of us with healthy writing relationships with our friends and family. I shouldn't really care, since my postal service is a profit maker - thank you very much - but I have family in the US and we like to write back and forth. And for the record the writers range in age from high school to older than me.
That's just fine, but you're 1/1,000,000. You could still send postcards and all sorts of things, it'll just be a little more expensive to send them.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:08 AM   #80
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That's just fine, but you're 1/1,000,000. You could still send postcards and all sorts of things, it'll just be a little more expensive to send them.
So, why is that a good thing? More expensive? I thought the free market was supposed to be more efficient? What a scam.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:09 AM   #81
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That's just fine, but you're 1/1,000,000. You could still send postcards and all sorts of things, it'll just be a little more expensive to send them.
It costs around 20 bucks to send an envelope with FedEx or UPS. Seems a bit too expensive, no?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:11 AM   #82
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That's just fine, but you're 1/1,000,000. You could still send postcards and all sorts of things, it'll just be a little more expensive to send them.
Yep, one in a million.

Hallmark sales - $4.1 billion
American Greetings sales - $1.7 billion
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:17 AM   #83
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Yep, one in a million.

Hallmark sales - $4.1 billion
American Greetings sales - $1.7 billion
Well those aren't hand written letters are they?

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It costs around 20 bucks to send an envelope with FedEx or UPS. Seems a bit too expensive, no?
The price would come down, obviously.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:23 AM   #84
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Well those aren't hand written letters are they?
Greeting cards, possibly with handwritten messages inside. My grandmother would find a way to write an entire novel inside a birthday card.

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The price would come down, obviously.
Why would they? What incentive would FedEx and UPS have to lower prices if they're the only courier available?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 11:25 AM   #85
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Greeting cards, possibly with handwritten messages inside. My grandmother would find a way to write an entire novel inside a birthday card.
Missing the point

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Why would they? What incentive would FedEx and UPS have to lower prices if they're the only courier available?
Well, they aren't one. They compete for business. If the USPS can make money delivering envelopes, than surely a company could. If USPS can't make money delivering envelopes, than perhaps we need to rethink the service.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:05 PM   #86
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If USPS can't make money delivering envelopes, than perhaps we need to rethink the service.
Why? It's part of our national infrastructure and is explicitly set up in the Constitution. It's an essential/lifeline service, it's not supposed to be profitable.

And yes, I'm sure the USPS could make money delivering envelopes....if they charged like $5 per letter to do so.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:08 PM   #87
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If anything needs to vanish its the overpriced FedEx and ups.

USPS can change their focus to package shipment instead of letters and junk mail.

Get rid of that pension crap and the union rules not allowing them to fire the dead weight (that pisspoor working guy that's been there 20 years but is merely a space taker) and by making customer service a priority. Make the lines efficient.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:15 PM   #88
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USPS is still cheaper to ship small packages than UPS (verified last week). Small package 1Lb, 2 Oz- USPS $8, UPS $11. I want to keep them around. If they save $2 Billion by cutting Sat deliveries, so be it.
Not always the case though...
9lb package going from Texas to Albuquerque:

USPS Rate: $17.
FedEx Ground: $12.

Update: What's online is not accurate in FedEx's case. Actual price $16, however this includes $100 insurance if you are so inclined, where the USPS charges extra. The girl at the FedEx store said, online is just an estimate. I was like, "if shipping costs are determined by weight and package dimensions, why was the amount so inaccurate? That is the info I entered."
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 12:55 PM   #89
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Why? It's part of our national infrastructure and is explicitly set up in the Constitution. It's an essential/lifeline service, it's not supposed to be profitable.

And yes, I'm sure the USPS could make money delivering envelopes....if they charged like $5 per letter to do so.
So perhaps it's time for us to evolve? We could spend that money elsewhere, or Americans could keep it for themselves.

i just don't see the value in paper mail lasting to my generation.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:16 PM   #90
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So perhaps it's time for us to evolve? We could spend that money elsewhere, or Americans could keep it for themselves.

i just don't see the value in paper mail lasting to my generation.
Not everyone has a computer, internet access, etc. Or even TV.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:22 PM   #91
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Not everyone has a computer, internet access, etc. Or even TV.
As I mentioned, this would be a gradual change. For example, my generation. I'll never not have some sort of access to the Internet unless I'm dead.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:30 PM   #92
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So perhaps it's time for us to evolve? We could spend that money elsewhere, or Americans could keep it for themselves.

i just don't see the value in paper mail lasting to my generation.

What money? Aside of $15 billion in loans, made necessary due to the ridiculous mandate to fund pensions for workers not even hired yet, the USPS costs the taxpayer nothing. If Congress would get out of the way, the USPS would be evolving and shutting down POs and distribution centers that aren't needed and slashing their costs. Of course, Congress meddles because no one wants any POs of distribution centers closed in their district. Another question I have for Congress is why they you limiting what businesses the USPS can be in?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 01:31 PM   #93
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What money? Aside of $15 billion in loans, made necessary due to the ridiculous mandate to fund pensions for workers not even hired yet, the USPS costs the taxpayer nothing. If Congress would get out of the way, the USPS would be evolving and shutting down POs and distribution centers that aren't needed and slashing their costs. Of course, Congress meddles because no one wants any POs of distribution centers closed in their district. Another question I have for Congress is why they you limiting what businesses the USPS can be in?
I'm not saying Congress isn't the problem here, or that the USPS can't be solvent. I just don't see the need for the US government to be involved in businesses like this.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 02:11 PM   #94
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I'm not saying Congress isn't the problem here, or that the USPS can't be solvent. I just don't see the need for the US government to be involved in businesses like this.
How else will every small village in North Dakota get any postal service at all?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 02:17 PM   #95
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How else will every small village in North Dakota get any postal service at all?
A central FedEx PO box like they do now, but with the USPS.

Or just not at all, which I strongly prefer.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 02:26 PM   #96
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A central FedEx PO box like they do now, but with the USPS.

Or just not at all, which I strongly prefer.

It's nice that you just prefer to close down an institution. What about the hundreds of thousands of workers? How about businesses who reply on mail like Netflix, Gamefly or direct mail marketers? What about magazine publishers? Not having the USPS to deliver their magazines cheaply would hasten the demise of that industry. Passports, a whole new infrastructure would need to be setup. We may be in the digital age but we are not yet ready to eliminate our "analog" services and businesses.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:09 PM   #97
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It's nice that you just prefer to close down an institution. What about the hundreds of thousands of workers? How about businesses who reply on mail like Netflix, Gamefly or direct mail marketers? What about magazine publishers? Not having the USPS to deliver their magazines cheaply would hasten the demise of that industry. Passports, a whole new infrastructure would need to be setup. We may be in the digital age but we are not yet ready to eliminate our "analog" services and businesses.


I agree with just about everything you said.

I find it a problem when people say "close it down" as an overly simplistic solution to a vast array of very complex problems.

Sure, we have digitized many aspects of our lives but there are still many things that an institution like the Post Office finds relevance. First of all, the Post Office is a direct branch of the Federal Government. We have passport services there. We can expand Social Security there as well. How about a national bank? Get rid of the Fed and nationalize our banking system and use the Post Office as your local branch. PO Boxes will never go away because business and private citizens use them. And people still deliver packages, screw UPS and FedEx, go USPS all the way!
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:31 PM   #98
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It's nice that you just prefer to close down an institution. What about the hundreds of thousands of workers? How about businesses who reply on mail like Netflix, Gamefly or direct mail marketers? What about magazine publishers? Not having the USPS to deliver their magazines cheaply would hasten the demise of that industry. Passports, a whole new infrastructure would need to be setup. We may be in the digital age but we are not yet ready to eliminate our "analog" services and businesses.
That's why I've repeatedly stated it needs to be gradual.

And too bad for the workers, they can work for UPS or FedEx or something. Keeping people in inefficient jobs just because is not a very good idea.

And Netflix, for example, should be leaving the home-delivery DVD business, but anyway, they would just cut deals with UPS/FedEx. Amazon doesn't have a problem with it.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:36 PM   #99
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That's why I've repeatedly stated it needs to be gradual.

And too bad for the workers, they can work for UPS or FedEx or something. Keeping people in inefficient jobs just because is not a very good idea.

And Netflix, for example, should be leaving the home-delivery DVD business, but anyway, they would just cut deals with UPS/FedEx. Amazon doesn't have a problem with it.


Gradually privatize the commons like our Post Office? No thanks.

How is UPS and FedEx any more efficient than USPS? 46 cents to send a letter is hardly inefficient.

Netflix is all ready going in the direction of streaming only, gradually. I doubt they would get a better deal with UPS or FedEx because they'll only look to rape as much as they can from Netflix.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:38 PM   #100
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Gradually privatize the commons like our Post Office? No thanks.
I didn't say all of the "commons" whatever that is. Just the Post Office, because we should move away from using paper.

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How is UPS and FedEx any more efficient than USPS? 46 cents to send a letter is hardly inefficient.
I didn't say they were. In fact, I said it may cost more, even. The difference is that the US government would have one less entity that needs managing.

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Netflix is all ready going in the direction of streaming only, gradually. I doubt they would get a better deal with UPS or FedEx because they'll only look to rape as much as they can from Netflix.
Have you ever worked for a company?
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