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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:44 PM   #101
rdowns
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Originally Posted by eric/ View Post
That's why I've repeatedly stated it needs to be gradual.

And too bad for the workers, they can work for UPS or FedEx or something. Keeping people in inefficient jobs just because is not a very good idea.

And Netflix, for example, should be leaving the home-delivery DVD business, but anyway, they would just cut deals with UPS/FedEx. Amazon doesn't have a problem with it.

I'm glad you have all the answers and everything is so simple.

Amazon uses the USPS big time. If they didn't, I bet free shipping would go away.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:46 PM   #102
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I'm glad you have all the answers and everything is so simple.

Amazon uses the USPS big time. If they didn't, I bet free shipping would go away.
Well they are able to give free shipping and two day turn around because they are able to save money and reduce shipping cost by supply chain management through their distribution network. It's actually very complicated and interesting.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:50 PM   #103
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I didn't say all of the "commons" whatever that is. Just the Post Office, because we should move away from using paper.



I didn't say they were. In fact, I said it may cost more, even. The difference is that the US government would have one less entity that needs managing.



Have you ever worked for a company?


The commons are the things that you and I and everyone in society owns, our government as a whole, our infrastructure, land, and entities like the Post Office.

We are moving away from using paper. Honestly, I don't remember the last time I wrote a check by hand and mailed it. But there are plenty of other services that I have mentioned that the Post Office can provide. Hell, UPS and FedEx still use the USPS.

Actually, the USPS has pretty much been a self-sustained business for years. They still have to follow mandates that come from the Federal Government however. Hence why the USPS is in such a hole because the Bush administration gutted it by forcing them to pay $5 billion per year in a pension fund for people who aren't even born yet. Had the USPS not had to pay into that fund, they would be profitable and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

What's it matter if I have ever worked for a company?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:51 PM   #104
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Well they are able to give free shipping and two day turn around because they are able to save money and reduce shipping cost by supply chain management through their distribution network. It's actually very complicated and interesting.

Yes, and the USPS is a huge part of their supply chain.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:51 PM   #105
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I'm glad you have all the answers and everything is so simple.

Amazon uses the USPS big time. If they didn't, I bet free shipping would go away.

Yup.

How many times must we emphasize that life isn't so simplistic?


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Well they are able to give free shipping and two day turn around because they are able to save money and reduce shipping cost by supply chain management through their distribution network. It's actually very complicated and interesting.

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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:52 PM   #106
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The commons are the things that you and I and everyone in society owns, our government as a whole, our infrastructure, land, and entities like the Post Office.

We are moving away from using paper. Honestly, I don't remember the last time I wrote a check by hand and mailed it. But there are plenty of other services that I have mentioned that the Post Office can provide. Hell, UPS and FedEx still use the USPS.
Well they use the USPS not because they couldn't possibly do it cheaper or better, but because it's already there, and for other reasons mentioned in an article that was linked.


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Actually, the USPS has pretty much been a self-sustained business for years. They still have to follow mandates that come from the Federal Government however. Hence why the USPS is in such a hole because the Bush administration gutted it by forcing them to pay $5 billion per year in a pension fund for people who aren't even born yet. Had the USPS not had to pay into that fund, they would be profitable and we wouldn't be having this conversation.
No we still would because I still think the post office needs to slowly be removed.

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What's it matter if I have ever worked for a company?
Well if you have, you would understand that companies aren't "out to rape" their customers.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:52 PM   #107
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Had the USPS not had to pay into that fund, they would be profitable and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

What's it matter if I have ever worked for a company?

Actually, their mandate is to be revenue neutral so their profit would end up back in the US Treasury..
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:53 PM   #108
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Yes, and the USPS is a huge part of their supply chain.
Well yeah, so is FedEx and UPS. I wonder what the stats are, actually.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 03:58 PM   #109
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Well they use the USPS not because they couldn't possibly do it cheaper or better, but because it's already there, and for other reasons mentioned in an article that was linked.




No we still would because I still think the post office needs to slowly be removed.



Well if you have, you would understand that companies aren't "out to rape" their customers.



"Cheaper" means worse service. "Better" means more expensive service. And you call that efficiency?

Why does the Post Office NEED to be removed? You might as well change the US Constitution to do that because it was written in there, Article 1 Section 8.7.

Every company I have worked for has always been out to rape customers for more money.

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Actually, their mandate is to be revenue neutral so their profit would end up back in the US Treasury..

Got it. And as it should. Governments should be not in the business in making profits but providing for the citizenry the citizen cannot do for him or herself.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 04:10 PM   #110
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"Cheaper" means worse service. "Better" means more expensive service. And you call that efficiency?

Why does the Post Office NEED to be removed? You might as well change the US Constitution to do that because it was written in there, Article 1 Section 8.7.
The great thing about the Constitution is that you can change it.

And you don't have to measure efficiency strictly in terms of price.

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Every company I have worked for has always been out to rape customers for more money.
Must have been some really terrible companies, they're probably all out of business by now.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 04:26 PM   #111
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...Every company I have worked for has always been out to rape customers for more money...
Every company (other than non-profits) is in business to make money, if they want to stay in business.

Perhaps you have some difficulty understanding the profit motive, and are being a little dramatic in your characterization of "raping customers for more money".
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 04:54 PM   #112
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The great thing about the Constitution is that you can change it.

And you don't have to measure efficiency strictly in terms of price.



Must have been some really terrible companies, they're probably all out of business by now.


If you haven't noticed, it take a lot of effort to amend the US Constitution. It's only happened 27 times in our country's history.

Again, why do we NEED to remove the Post Office?

In my opinion, in terms of work condition, some were worse than others. One of those companies (big electronics chain) is starting to close it's doors actually.

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Every company (other than non-profits) is in business to make money, if they want to stay in business.

Perhaps you have some difficulty understanding the profit motive, and are being a little dramatic in your characterization of "raping customers for more money".


Nothing wrong with making money and trying to stay in business. It's another issue to gouge your customers.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 05:00 PM   #113
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Things I think are weird:

1. Saturday delivery. We've never had Saturday delivery.

2. The postie PICKS UP your outgoing mail. Here you take it to the Post Office and pop it in the box.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 05:24 PM   #114
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How else will every small village in North Dakota get any postal service at all?
It seems utterly obvious to anyone who has lived ortraveled in rural America, but the city dwellers just feel they can rot away because its not their problem.

I agree that states like MT, ND, NM, etc take way more than they give and that it is totally unfair and while the "value added" by those states is relatively small, the only solution is to either force those ruralites to pay all costs, thereby pricing them out of their lifestyle choice or subsidizing them and accepting that that's the price we pay for wide open spaces.

Eric also fails to understand that the rural mail carrier and the post office itself are vital to the health and well-being of millions of Americans. In his world though, the govt. should never care about its citizens. I find that incredibly sad.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 05:27 PM   #115
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...Nothing wrong with making money and trying to stay in business. It's another issue to gouge your customers.
Quote:
Every company I have worked for has always been out to rape customers for more money.
If you don't mind my asking, what companies have you worked for?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 06:42 PM   #116
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That's just fine, but you're 1/1,000,000.....
About 35 million Canadians, means what - 35 letters? Canada post delivers 45 million 'items' each business day. We don't how many are 'letters' - but I would bet money that it is more than 35. Last year Canada Post received "millions of letters" addressed to Santa Claus. Link
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Well those aren't hand written letters are they?
The price would come down, obviously.
If someone written a note inside, yes they are. We tend to write long notes. It is called "letter mail" whether you use a blank piece of paper or a card to write on.

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So perhaps it's time for us to evolve? We could spend that money elsewhere, or Americans could keep it for themselves.
Actually - all that money is being ploughed back into the American economy. It is one of the few "products" that has virtually no money going off-shore, if you think about it.
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i just don't see the value in paper mail lasting to my generation.
Don't you have friends and family who send you mail? That's pretty sad....
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A central FedEx PO box like they do now, but with the USPS.

Or just not at all, which I strongly prefer.
Well, I wonder how loud FedEx/UPS/etc would scream if they were mandated by the government to service every single address, as the post office does?
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:06 PM   #117
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About 35 million Canadians, means what - 35 letters? Canada post delivers 45 million 'items' each business day. We don't how many are 'letters' - but I would bet money that it is more than 35. Last year Canada Post received "millions of letters" addressed to Santa Claus. Link
Here's an interesting article on the USPS

Link

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If someone written a note inside, yes they are. We tend to write long notes. It is called "letter mail" whether you use a blank piece of paper or a card to write on.
Splitting haris

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Actually - all that money is being ploughed back into the American economy. It is one of the few "products" that has virtually no money going off-shore, if you think about it.
Yeah but it's being allocated in an inefficient way.

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Don't you have friends and family who send you mail? That's pretty sad....
No I wouldn't want it.

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Well, I wonder how loud FedEx/UPS/etc would scream if they were mandated by the government to service every single address, as the post office does?
Well no, you just don't mandate that. As we move toward eliminating physical mail, it won't be necessary.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:19 PM   #118
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The places that FedEx and UPS don't deliver to are the same places that are hundreds of miles away from any type of broadband or high speed internet connection and rely on the postal service the most.

Are you advocating that the government spends the billions of dollars it would take to make broadband available to every single house in America? Because you keep yammering on about how the postal service is inefficient, but there's nothing efficient about running fiber out to a single house out in the middle of Montana.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:27 PM   #119
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The places that FedEx and UPS don't deliver to are the same places that are hundreds of miles away from any type of broadband or high speed internet connection and rely on the postal service the most.
As I said, gradual.

And those that are "hundreds of miles away" from stuff have to drive to PO boxes anyway.

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Are you advocating that the government spends the billions of dollars it would take to make broadband available to every single house in America? Because you keep yammering on about how the postal service is inefficient, but there's nothing efficient about running fiber out to a single house out in the middle of Montana.
No the government wouldn't spend any money. People would just pay for it themselves.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:33 PM   #120
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As I said, gradual.

And those that are "hundreds of miles away" from stuff have to drive to PO boxes anyway.
No they don't. That is simply not true. The USPS even goes so far as to use mules to deliver mail to an Indian reservation at the bottom of the Grand Canyon

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No the government wouldn't spend any money. People would just pay for it themselves.
Perhaps you don't understand rural life. Getting broadband in parts of the country isn't as simple as calling up Comcast and setting up an installation date. The infrastructure isn't even there.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:35 PM   #121
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No they don't. That is simply not true. The USPS even goes so far as to use mules to deliver mail to an Indian reservation at the bottom of the Grand Canyon



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Perhaps you don't understand rural life. Getting broadband in parts of the country isn't as simple as calling up Comcast and setting up an installation date. The infrastructure isn't even there.
Then they just wouldn't have it I guess. Just because you choose to live in a remote location doesn't entitle you to anything.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:38 PM   #122
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That's the best you can come up with.



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Then they just wouldn't have it I guess. Just because you choose to live in a remote location doesn't entitle you to anything.
So you don't want them to have a postal service. You don't want them to have internet. You just want them to be cut off from the rest of the world? Or would you rather that everyone moves into our already overpopulated cities and we shut down all of the farms that provide us with food. Genius idea.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:42 PM   #123
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That's the best you can come up with.

your argument is "they deliver mail by mule to indians at the bottom of the Grand Canyon keep the post office!"

That's worthy


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So you don't want them to have a postal service.
I don't care if they do or don't.

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You don't want them to have internet.
Where did I say that?

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You just want them to be cut off from the rest of the world?
So if I move 800 miles away from civilization in remote Alaska I should expect mail service? Maybe they'll airlift me some post cards every once in awhile.

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Or would you rather that everyone moves into our already overpopulated cities and we shut down all of the farms that provide us with food. Genius idea.
Well you don't have to move to an "overpopulated city" to be able to get internet service, or have a PO box.

And people moving closer to population centers =/= farms not producing food.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 07:53 PM   #124
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your argument is "they deliver mail by mule to indians at the bottom of the Grand Canyon keep the post office!"

That's worthy
Your argument that people in remote areas have to drive long distances to PO Boxes is completely invalid, as proven by the great lengths the USPS goes through to deliver mail.

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I don't care if they do or don't.
You said we should shut the postal service down


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Where did I say that?
Without the infrastructure there (paid for by the government) how the hell else do you expect people in rural areas to get broadband?

Quote:
So if I move 800 miles away from civilization in remote Alaska I should expect mail service? Maybe they'll airlift me some post cards every once in awhile.
Yes. In fact, you move there, give me your address and I'll mail you a post card since it doesn't seem like you have any friends or family who do.

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Well you don't have to move to an "overpopulated city" to be able to get internet service, or have a PO box.
While that may be true, and even some more rural towns have broadband, plenty of them don't.

Quote:
And people moving closer to population centers =/= farms not producing food.
Yeah, the farmers can live in the city and commute a couple hundred miles each way to their farm every day. Brilliant idea.
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Old Feb 7, 2013, 08:10 PM   #125
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If you don't mind my asking, what companies have you worked for?


I do mind as I like to keep some sort of anonymity on the interwebs.

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@eric/

You never answered the question of why we NEED to get rid of institutions like the Post Office.

Last edited by annk; Feb 9, 2013 at 08:07 AM. Reason: Trolling
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